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Old 10-11-2005   #1
TEXANS84
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Default Current O-Line Stats Breakdown

Here are the most current offensive line stats per snap.stats:

*LT Victor Riley-
2 false starts
0 holding penalties
6.50 sacks allowed Stats

*LG Chester Pitts-
0 false starts
0 holding penalties
2.50 sacks allowed Stats

*C Steve McKinney-
0 false starts
0 holding penalties
2.50 sacks allowed Stats

*RG Zach Weigert-
0 false starts
0 holding penalties
.5 sacks allowed
Stats

*RT Todd Wade-
2 false starts
1 holding penalties
5.00 sacks allowed
Stats


Unfortunatley, stats of sacks allowed for runningbacks/fullbacks/and tight ends were not available, but the list does add up to 17.0 sacks for the offensive line. So that leaves a difference of 10 sacks to split between them and David Carr.

Is the offensive line really the problem?

Last edited by TEXANS84; 10-12-2005 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 10-11-2005   #2
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Well, I think you're asking the wrong question really. You're asking if the offensive line is really the problem which kind of implies that there's "a" problem. That's not really saying it all though. There's more than one problem.

In 4 games the offensive line has given up 14.5 sacks which puts them on a 58 sack pace even if everyone else who's supposed to be blocking (or getting rid of the ball in a reasonable amount of time) is perfect. 58 sacks tells me that yeah, the offensive line is "a" problem.

David Carr and the runningbacks have given up 12.5 which comes out to 50 sacks this year. Even if the line didn't allow a single sack I'm thinking 50 is too high. This is another problem.

Going back and forth over who sucks more, the line or the QB/RB's is pointless. They all suck and right now they almost all suck about the same amount.
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Old 10-11-2005   #3
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Nice work Texans84, appreciate the breakdown.
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Old 10-11-2005   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Nice work Texans84, appreciate the breakdown.
Ditto. I should have mentioned that as well.
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Old 10-11-2005   #5
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think about it this way...any solid playoff calibur team only gives up on average around 25-30 sacks a season and almost doubles that defensively...that's where we are 24 sacks in the negative...that will not win any football games in the NFL
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Old 10-11-2005   #6
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I'm a tad bit shocked that Weigert is the sack leader of the line at the moment. I am also shocked at the play of McKinney and Pitts.
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Old 10-11-2005   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANS84
I'm a tad bit shocked that Weigert is the sack leader of the line at the moment. I am also shocked at the play of McKinney and Pitts.
I am as well. Where did you get the breakdown? What is the methodology, as in how does one get credit for a sack?

Sorry for the directness, just interested.
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Old 10-11-2005   #8
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I think when McKinney decided to double the tackle instead of blocking Bullock's direct path to David Carr, he should be attributed with 1 full sack
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Old 10-11-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blockhead83
I think when McKinney decided to double the tackle instead of blocking Bullock's direct path to David Carr, he should be attributed with 1 full sack
This is the danger of us fans "grading tape". We think we know what we see, but we don't know a lot of the nitty-gritty details. I'm not one to defend McKinney, but on that play we don't know what the line calls were, so we don't know who was supposed to do what. It is possible that the line was supposed to move left and that was really Weigert's guy, or maybe there was supposed to be a hot read and Carr was supposed to throw the ball, or maybe it was the running back's guy - we just don't know.

These stats don't show hurries and stuff though, or pressures that result in short runs by Carr or incomplete passes. It doesn't show performance in run blocking either.

I guess the lesson is we fans really need to recognize the limits of our knowledge.

It does appear that our tackles are not playing well at all.

Thanks for posting these stats, I did a short search for something like this but couldn't find them.

Last edited by Runner; 10-11-2005 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 10-11-2005   #10
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alright...lets get more specific.

d-linemen vs blitzers. (lb's, safetys, and corners...)

the line shifts constantly to pick up blitzers. im sure these stats are black and white. rg put a hand on----? blitzing mlb so he gets credit for giving up the sack...

this is not a black and white stat. there is a vast gray area here.

and who calls the blocking assignments? mckinney. thats been one constant since day 1. even if you think he's been much better this year then in previous years his "cerebral responsibilities" deserve some blame. obviously what we're doing isnt working.

anywho---to get back on track...how bout a break down of d-linemen sacks vs other sacks against our line...?
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Old 10-11-2005   #11
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Wiegert has .5 sacks this year and 5.0 sacks last year.

Stats, Inc. generally has an explanation section for how they derive their stats. I believe they attribute sacks to the last player with the responsibility to prevent the sack which often drives stats to the RB's/TE's. These stats are much more useful for comparing team to team and around the league than for individual performance game to game. They naturally pile on the tackles when the center collapses and the QB has no room to step up, the tackle can't ride the DE around the play and gets full credit for the sack. Eyeballs on the tape is still most important to know if that is the problem or as in Houston, if there is pressure in the middle (a center wearing a grass skirt welcoming players to the luau), from the left (a LT who looks like the victim of a mob hit in his cement shoes) and from the right (where the Texans have the only 6' 8" matador in history) and a QB running for his life screaming like a woman.

Wanna guess how hard a team will try to protect a $100 mil QB--Manning has been sacked 1 time this year in 5 games. How about being the only loser on that OL to have given up a sack?
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Old 10-11-2005   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANS84
Here are the most current offensive line stats per snap.stats:

*LT Victor Riley-
2 false starts
0 holding penalties
4.50 sacks allowed Stats
Did anyone else click this hyperlink to see that Riley allowed 11 sacks last year playing for New Orleans as a "Right Tackle?" Yeah, he's our answer to play left tackle.
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Old 10-11-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powda
and who calls the blocking assignments? mckinney. thats been one constant since day 1. even if you think he's been much better this year then in previous years his "cerebral responsibilities" deserve some blame. obviously what we're doing isnt working.
This assumes that in the seconds between McKinney's calls and the snap everyone on the line correctly decides what they have to do and then does the right thing.
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Old 10-11-2005   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner
This assumes that in the seconds between McKinney's calls and the snap everyone on the line correctly decides what they have to do and then does the right thing.

they dont decide. mckinney does.

even a space monkey can be trained to push the red button vs the blue button with the proper prompts. i'd like to hope i can give our line that much credit....
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Old 10-11-2005   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powda
they dont decide. mckinney does.

even a space monkey can be trained to push the red button vs the blue button with the proper prompts. i'd like to hope i can give our line that much credit....
By "decide" I mean after McKinney makes a call they look and "decide" who they are responsible for given the call and the defensive set.

I'd hope they could do that too, but the defense is also trying to fool them by moving around, showing fake blitzes, disguising blitzes and such.

The line has problems, and I'm trying to point out some (maybe) non-obvious things for discussion. Not all threads have to follow the normal structure of:

Joe sucks.

No Bill sucks.

They both suck.

Fire them all!
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Old 10-11-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner
By "decide" I mean after McKinney makes a call they look and "decide" who they are responsible for given the call and the defensive set.

I'd hope they could do that too, but the defense is also trying to fool them by moving around, showing fake blitzes, disguising blitzes and such.

The line has problems, and I'm trying to point out some (maybe) non-obvious things for discussion. Not all threads have to follow the normal structure of:

Joe sucks.

No Bill sucks.

They both suck.

Fire them all!
Dom Sucks!


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Old 10-11-2005   #17
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Well said.
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Old 10-11-2005   #18
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i agree to. we have a consensus.
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Old 10-11-2005   #19
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Fire them all.
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Old 10-11-2005   #20
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That wasn't so hard was it? Felt good too.
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