Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-10-2005   #1
Marcus
Hall of Fame
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Stafford, Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 7,584
Rep Power: 72459 Marcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Once again now . . . do you keep Carr?

Houston Chronicle: "David Carr is due an $8 million roster bonus by the end of this season. If the Texans don't exercise it, he will become a free agent. Until recently, that money and Carr's future with the Texans hadn't been an issue."

Well, it has become a very important issue now. With all this "Fire everyone" frenzy going on, it's in the background, and it shoudn't be.

If he get's that bonus, that goes against the salary cap, and he gets Pro-Bowler pay without proving he deserves it. Granted, with the o-line, some say he never was given a chance. But the fact still remains, he hasn't proved he's deserved it.

From this corner, IMO, if everyone goes out the door, Carr goes with them. He was, after all, their choice.

Now, I like Carr a lot, I think that if he is given protection from an adequate offensive line, he can one day become a good quarterback. Maybe one day he can earn that Pro-Bowl money.

But, (I'm ashamed to say this) he doesn't stand a chance with the Houston Texans. If the front office has any honor left in them, they will let this kid go before he is permanently ruined . . . like a Tim Couch or Archie Manning.

_____________________________

Last edited by Marcus; 10-10-2005 at 06:17 PM.
Marcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #2
Vinny
shiny happy fan
 
Vinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 50
Posts: 21,785
Rep Power: 153429 Vinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I donno, good topic. I can't believe we haven't discussed this!

just kinda joking Marcus...we are beating this dead horse for the next 12 weeks I would guess
__________________
http://twitter.com/#!/TexansTalk


"A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves" - Edward R. Murrow
Vinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #3
texan279
Hall of Fame
 
texan279's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rosenberg TX
Age: 35
Posts: 5,612
Rep Power: 3367 texan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

If we don't/can't draft Ferguson, sign/draft a TE, another WR, and maybe another lineman, I say let him go, it has gotten to the point where it's just not fair to Carr anymore. He still needs to work on spome minor things, but he hasn't even had a chance to show what he can do or prove he is worth the money. And I was one of the ones saying bench Carr in the preseason. He actually has looked better to me, but he hasn't had time this season to show what he can do. If he only had time so he at least has a chance to show what he can do...
__________________
Fire It Up, Let the engines roll, It's time to burn it down
texan279 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #4
profan
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 51
Posts: 368
Rep Power: 11 profan is ridin' the pine
Default

i think the question has to be asked, does david carr still want to play in houston. They have not given him any support(o-line). I would like to see ragone get some playing time and see how he performs. If he performs equal to or better than carr, i say release carr and let him find success with another team. Would hate to see the titans pick him up. This will be a decision our new head coach would have to make when he evaluates the whole team. That money could be well spent upgrading alot of other positions.
profan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #5
texan279
Hall of Fame
 
texan279's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rosenberg TX
Age: 35
Posts: 5,612
Rep Power: 3367 texan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by profan
i think the question has to be asked, does david carr still want to play in houston. They have not given him any support(o-line). I would like to see ragone get some playing time and see how he performs. If he performs equal to or better than carr, i say release carr and let him find success with another team. Would hate to see the titans pick him up. This will be a decision our new head coach would have to make when he evaluates the whole team. That money could be well spent upgrading alot of other positions.
If Carr was to leave, I bet the Jets, Bears, or even the Skins would make a hard push for him...
__________________
Fire It Up, Let the engines roll, It's time to burn it down
texan279 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #6
nunusguy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,991
Rep Power: 185 nunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by profan
i think the question has to be asked, does david carr still want to play in houston.
And I presume management, whoever that would be between the end of the season and March, would make sure they knew exactly how Carr felt about
remaining here. Assuming the Texans want to keep him, is the option exercised unilaterally by the Texans, or must it be by mutual agreement ? And can we trade the option rights for value to another team without Carrs
approval ?
nunusguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #7
LORK 88
Wreck'em Ŧech!
 
LORK 88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas Tech
Age: 27
Posts: 1,205
Rep Power: 202 LORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to LORK 88
Default

Do what Detroit did and keep Carr and give him weapons and a line that will actually block for him. If he still sucks, then get rid of him. We've allready made bigger mistakes than giving Carr $8 million, and who knows? He could turn things around with some help like Drew Brees did.
__________________
LORK 88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 10-10-2005   #8
CajunTexan
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Age: 53
Posts: 153
Rep Power: 0 CajunTexan is ridin' the pine
Default

You know, call me crazy, ignorant, blind, whatever, but my gut tells me this guy will renegotiate his contract to give the team the cap money it needs. Surely he sees, whether his fault or not, he has not put up the numbers to warrant that contract.

To me it depends on what the word from league insiders may be. If "the word" is that, put in the right position, he will put up pro-bowl numbers, he may not renegotiate, because his agent will persuade him he can get the dollars. But that would be a major league roll of the dice.

I think his best bet is to come to some kind of deal with the Texans.
CajunTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #9
Honoring Earl 34
Hey Koolaid
 
Honoring Earl 34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston
Age: 51
Posts: 18,931
Rep Power: 151960 Honoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I would not pay ...let him go free agent and sign him for less in a month .
__________________
A little about Colleen. She's the brains behind the operation. Magna cum laude from BC, top five in her law school class, so obviously I have a pretty good idea how to recruit, I can tell you that.
Honoring Earl 34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #10
Hervoyel
The Right Track
 
Hervoyel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 49
Posts: 14,629
Rep Power: 243165 Hervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I'm thinking just the opposite CajunTexan. I'm thinking that David is going to say to himself "I just spent four years getting the stuffing beat out of me. Then the defenses beat the stuffing just to see if anything might fall out of it. It's time to get paid for all those hits"

I think on one level he'd be right to do that. Carr has not completely lived up to his end of the bargain IMO but it's painfully obvious that the Texans have come up short too. If anything I think the Texans owe him the money but I also think there's so much wrong with the team right now that Carr might be best served by going elsewhere. The Texans might be best served spending that money on other needs.

It's a hard thing to understand but much like Cleveland before us we may be sending our first QB out the door because that's what's best for both of us.
__________________
A wise man once said "...well at this point it's all been hashed out and you either see it or don't. Hoping for a win next week" - HTown2ATX
Hervoyel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #11
OzzO
.. and then?
 
OzzO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: northside
Posts: 6,652
Rep Power: 24376 OzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to OzzO
Default

yes and ditto the cajun a few posts up... he's a smart kid, I think he'll do what's right, especially if there's a one on one meeting with Bob "number one priority..." McNair to discuss the future.
OzzO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #12
LORK 88
Wreck'em Ŧech!
 
LORK 88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas Tech
Age: 27
Posts: 1,205
Rep Power: 202 LORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to LORK 88
Default

I think he'll be smart about it too. Yes, he's taken hits and gets pummeled but I think he sees too much (dare I say it) promise. the Texans without Carr would be even worse, he's at the very least, a leader. Who would want to come play for us and take all those hits anyways?
LORK 88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #13
CajunTexan
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Age: 53
Posts: 153
Rep Power: 0 CajunTexan is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
I'm thinking just the opposite CajunTexan. I'm thinking that David is going to say to himself "I just spent four years getting the stuffing beat out of me. Then the defenses beat the stuffing just to see if anything might fall out of it. It's time to get paid for all those hits"

I think on one level he'd be right to do that. Carr has not completely lived up to his end of the bargain IMO but it's painfully obvious that the Texans have come up short too. If anything I think the Texans owe him the money but I also think there's so much wrong with the team right now that Carr might be best served by going elsewhere. The Texans might be best served spending that money on other needs.

It's a hard thing to understand but much like Cleveland before us we may be sending our first QB out the door because that's what's best for both of us.
Herv...you know I am speaking a little bit from my heart on this one. I have always had this gut about Carr, sort of like I did about Aikman. You may be right though. No one could blame the guy or the team for a parting of the ways. I just hope he is not a figure in H-town sports history like a Nolan Ryan or someone else that was shown the door and prospered elsewhere.
CajunTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #14
Goldeagle
Hall of Fame
 
Goldeagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Spring
Age: 41
Posts: 1,816
Rep Power: 12 Goldeagle is a Pro BowlerGoldeagle is a Pro Bowler
Send a message via Yahoo to Goldeagle
Default

Yeah keep him. All my friends in other towns know it is not his fault.

They even said on the radio today that Carr had about 2.4 seconds to take the snap, drop back, read the defense, and make the throw

2.4 FREAKING SECONDS!
Goldeagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #15
blockhead83
All Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: College Station, Texas
Age: 31
Posts: 715
Rep Power: 11 blockhead83 is a fan favorite
Send a message via AIM to blockhead83
Default

I definitely think Carr can get it done, if given the proper supporting cast (all he needs IMO is protection at this point, and maybe a better #2 receiver if we get the chance). He has all the tools to be a great QB, and if we let him go it won't be easy to get another young franchise QB with similar capabilities. He hasn't proven he's worth big money yet, but there is no doubting his potential in my mind. Hopefully he'll restructure, maybe the enticement of a new coaching staff with true intentions of doing everything they can to protect him will persuade him. I think we need a change in coaching staff, and a strong showing in the draft and FA to pick up some talent for this OLine, and Carr can go on to have a very productive career with the Texans. I definitely want him to stay in Houston.
blockhead83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #16
Hervoyel
The Right Track
 
Hervoyel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 49
Posts: 14,629
Rep Power: 243165 Hervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunTexan
Herv...you know I am speaking a little bit from my heart on this one. I have always had this gut about Carr, sort of like I did about Aikman. You may be right though. No one could blame the guy or the team for a parting of the ways. I just hope he is not a figure in H-town sports history like a Nolan Ryan or someone else that was shown the door and prospered elsewhere.
Agreed, I want to see it work out too and even though a lot of people say that if you're the least bit critical of David Carr that makes you a "Carr Hater" I disagree. I see holes in his game and things he does poorly but most quarterbacks have weaknesses here and there. I don't see a coaching staff that's been able to help him with the things he does wrong and I don't see an organization that's provided him with the tools to eliminate the excuses.

I'd like to see them give him a line and some consistent time. Give him a kick butt running game and a second solid threat and then see what happens. I hope we get a look at something like this before it's all over. I'd hate to give up on him too soon too.

What I don't mean by a line and consistent time is the mess we put on the field every year. FIX THE LINE GUYS!

I don't mean a Domanick Davis type running game. You put DD behind Payton Manning and he's going to look an awful lot like Edge at times. Here he's not enough. Back at the draft I was praying for Benson to fall to us (no way) but of course it didn't happen. The Texans need a running back who can get the yards when everyone knows he's coming to get them. DD just can't do that.

On the second receiving threat I think we already have good options. Gaffney can play, Armstrong can play. Even Bradford can play (but how he rates as our #2 guy escapes me. He's at best our #3. I don't give Mathis an edge over him just because for all the ridiculous love in here sent to Mathis he hasn't done a damned thing yet. Right now he's Corey Bradford but faster and with less history to judge him by. Maybe he passes Corey easy once he gets in some games but until I see it he is what he is, a rookie reciever with speed. Don't expect too much from him in year one.
__________________
A wise man once said "...well at this point it's all been hashed out and you either see it or don't. Hoping for a win next week" - HTown2ATX
Hervoyel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #17
Mr. Old School
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 24
Rep Power: 0 Mr. Old School is ridin' the pine
Default Carr Has to Shoulder Some Blame

Carr has to take some of the blame in the Texans' performance so far. Everything can't be put on the O-line. He still needs help in reading the blitz. Is Carr mature enough to lead this team? Sometimes I wonder about him. Man, he's getting alot of $$$$!
Mr. Old School is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #18
texan279
Hall of Fame
 
texan279's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rosenberg TX
Age: 35
Posts: 5,612
Rep Power: 3367 texan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
He still needs help in reading the blitz.
What can he do when he sees the blitz coming? This O line couldn't block against a pee wee squad. Carr needs help praying when he sees the blitz coming.
__________________
Fire It Up, Let the engines roll, It's time to burn it down
texan279 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #19
eriadoc
Texan-American
 
eriadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,137
Rep Power: 217185 eriadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via ICQ to eriadoc Send a message via Yahoo to eriadoc
Default

I like David Carr. I think it's a travesty how this team has failed to put him in a position to succeed to this point. I don't blame much of our current situation on Carr, even while acknowledging that he's not playing well now. No other QB would be playing well at this point in our team's history, either.

That said, we can't pay him $8 million next year. While he may not have been given ample opportunity to earn that pay, the fact remains that he has not earned it. What I think he's earned is a right to a second chance under a new regime, whether that be with a renegotiated contract here in Houston, or as a free agent signing elsewhere.
eriadoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2005   #20
CajunTexan
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Age: 53
Posts: 153
Rep Power: 0 CajunTexan is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
Agreed, I want to see it work out too and even though a lot of people say that if you're the least bit critical of David Carr that makes you a "Carr Hater" I disagree. I see holes in his game and things he does poorly but most quarterbacks have weaknesses here and there. I don't see a coaching staff that's been able to help him with the things he does wrong and I don't see an organization that's provided him with the tools to eliminate the excuses.

I'd like to see them give him a line and some consistent time. Give him a kick butt running game and a second solid threat and then see what happens. I hope we get a look at something like this before it's all over. I'd hate to give up on him too soon too.

What I don't mean by a line and consistent time is the mess we put on the field every year. FIX THE LINE GUYS!

I don't mean a Domanick Davis type running game. You put DD behind Payton Manning and he's going to look an awful lot like Edge at times. Here he's not enough. Back at the draft I was praying for Benson to fall to us (no way) but of course it didn't happen. The Texans need a running back who can get the yards when everyone knows he's coming to get them. DD just can't do that.

On the second receiving threat I think we already have good options. Gaffney can play, Armstrong can play. Even Bradford can play (but how he rates as our #2 guy escapes me. He's at best our #3. I don't give Mathis an edge over him just because for all the ridiculous love in here sent to Mathis he hasn't done a damned thing yet. Right now he's Corey Bradford but faster and with less history to judge him by. Maybe he passes Corey easy once he gets in some games but until I see it he is what he is, a rookie reciever with speed. Don't expect too much from him in year one.
I'm with you Herv...some folks criticize though without any specifics to back the criticisim. (where is the spell check icon?) Yes, he does have holes, like not looking a safety off, but as the eagle mentioned, 2.4 seconds is long enough to look off anything. He has just shown enough glimpes of what could be, to keep the feeling in my gut about what he could become.

I bleed purple and gold and watched double d in college, but I have never been sold on him as a "hoss", you know. He lacks the stamina to dominate a game. Don't get me wrong, he shows flashes, just not a dominator.

I really like our receivers, minus Cory, just past his prime. AJ, Gaff, Armstrong and Mathis seem to me like could be really scary to a defense if we could find away to get 2, 3 or all 4 of them on the field at the same time.

Like most of the rest of the folks on this board, I have watched the team for 5 years and had high expectations for this season. Very dissappointed. Just hope McNair can fix it.
CajunTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger