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Old 10-10-2005   #1
Tulip
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Default Did We Help Create This Disaster?

This was pointed out to me last night during a very heated household argument about whether coaching or personnel is most to blame for the Texans' current situation.

As the person who blames coaching more, because I think the coaches are coaching to lose by coaching not to lose, I was asked to ponder:

If it's really about loser's mentality, did the fans and the city of Houston help create that loser's mentality? When we said, it's okay in Year __ to keep the games close? When we said it's okay in Year ____ to only win X number of games? When we said that all we wanted to see is improvement?

Should we have said, from the very beginning, "we want the Texans to win - period?"

Has our "it's okay to 'play well'" endorsement from Years 1-3 helped the kill the passion for winning? Lately, I have heard Dom Capers and David Carr say things that are just unacceptable in a competitive environment.

Maybe we weren't patient for too long. Maybe we should have never been patient.

Food for thought.
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Old 10-10-2005   #2
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Anytime you hear players quoted about how happy they are after a loss that includes 7 sacks and 250 yards of total offense, there are issues within. Capers and staff have instilled a loser's mentality into his team and there's no turning back at this point.
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Old 10-10-2005   #3
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Well at least we know Capers is good at something, breeding low-team-esteem, and a losers mentality. Way to go Capers. Luckily Casserly is aiding Capers' team philosophy by bringing in a lot of LOSERS.
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Old 10-10-2005   #4
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But did we, the fans, cultivate that mentality? Have we been watering the failure plant all along?
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Old 10-10-2005   #5
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I think during the first 3 seasons most of the fans had faith in our coaching staff and front office. Year one they said that they wanted to see consistant improvement from game to game. As fans, that's what we got and we kept believing. The second year they said they wanted to see us get the ball to the recievers more often and become competetive every game. We got that too and the fans kept believing. Last year they said we want to keep the game close so in the 4th quarter we can get the "W". For the most part, that's what we got and we kept beliving. This year they said we should be pushing for the playoffs, but still reiterated what was told to us last year. Keep it close to pull off the "W" in the 4th quarter. Us fans are getting neither... and we are all loosing faith.
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Old 10-10-2005   #6
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Originally Posted by Tulip
But did we, the fans, cultivate that mentality? Have we been watering the failure plant all along?
nah, I think most fans are patient and have let the team play out its hand before being judgmental. It's not like we got an existing team and are trying to make it over...but we have played over 50 games now so this isn't an expansion team anymore. This team took a u-turn about 14 games ago and have been rolling downhill ever since. I've seen decent teams start out 0-3 or 0-4 before, but nothing as bad this kind of multiple unit breakdown on the same issues week-in, week-out for the last 13 games from even the worst of NFL teams.
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Old 10-10-2005   #7
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But did we, the fans, cultivate that mentality? Have we been watering the failure plant all along?

No we did not cultivate any sort of mentality with the team. In an expansion teams first season it is insanity to expect them to win many games. Telling them to "Win.... Period!" gains nothing and really, look at the roster turnover from that first team to today. A great many of those players aren't even here anymore.

In 2003 the injuries along the defensive line created a situation where the teams only strength (it's defense) was reduced considerably. In spite of this they gave us one more win than the year before.

In 2004 we saw them win seven games and we raised all kinds of hell when they played poorly in Denver, at Indianapolis, and finally the debacle against Cleveland to close out the season.

I don't think that being realistic in the early days of this franchise created some kind of atmosphere that tolerated losing. On the contrary I think that starting a wee bit early (IMO) the fans began to demand that the players win or at the very least give a good solid effort.

You can't always have the best team in the league but nobody accepts a team that plays stupid. The Texans could be forgiven their lack of talent early on but the poor execution and stupid penalties are unforgivable now and to some extent last season.

If the players don't feel that they must produce or that they're accountable I have to look at the people who's responsibility it is to communicate those things. The coaches. If anyone has created an environment where losing and failure are acceptable (and I don't necessarily conceed that this has happened at all, just that it's possible) then the only ones who could have done it are the coaches and possibly the front office.
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Old 10-10-2005   #8
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We, the fans, gave this organization the benefit of the doubt.

We accepted that the front office and coaching staff knew what they were doing.

We drank the koolaide and believed.

But the rose-tinted glasses are off now, and we understand the reality of the fact that our team has quit playing for this coaching staff. We are very experienced in recognizing this losers mentality, and a dedicated core group of us has determined ourselves to help Mr. McNair escort our first HC out of the building.

If we accepted this team and towed the line, then I'd agree with the premise that Tulip has put forth. But we have not only rejected the loser mentality that permeates the team, but we are in the middle of a mutiny.
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Old 10-10-2005   #9
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Default bill of goods

First, Dom Capers would make a successful salesman or pitch man for one of those tv products. Why? He starts by telling you what you want to hear and-for the Texan fans including Bob McNair-it was that he was building a team in Houston that would be a perinnial winner and would do so within 5 years. Too, he warned us about the pit falls and growing pains that we would endure to begin with--

Yes, there were many signs that all was not well in 'Caper's Land' but most of this was shoved under the 'expansion' rug. When there were signs of 'antsy' or doubt we were flooded with different versions of the concept of time and gel. Remember? Our 3rd year started off great (4-3), with all kinds of offense and scoring and even some defense, but then the rest of the year went 'south.' Why? Cover 2? Sure, that was a part of the problem but other teams have game planned against it (among other things)--why not the Texans.

Then came the Browns game, a chance before the home crowd to be 8-8 and no longer a loser, but the wheels came off big time. Why? Fans were concerned about the OL and the lack of sacks and disappearing WR's and wondered too why other teams had great success with their TE's...but not the Texans. Our owner even promised protection in '05 for Carr--it not only has not gotten better, but worse.

The Texans are no longer a 'suprise' (if they ever were) in the NFL and have become very easy to game plan against--just think, if the 'couch potatos' know what the Texans are going to do, the experts are in heaven.

Coaching not to lose. To win with this philosophy, you've got to do a lot of stuff right...and have a little luck. The fans and the Texans have given Caper's a 'long rope.' Unfortunately, there appears little hope that we will ever get the 'goods' Capers promised us but-I hope-we at least learn from this experience. We don't always have to be 'all nicey' and accept poor performance==in hindsight, we should have at least demanded what Capers was going to do to correct problems. And, more time and 'gel' should not be an answer.
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Old 10-10-2005   #10
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Then came the Browns game, a chance before the home crowd to be 8-8 and no longer a loser, but the wheels came off big time.
The wheels actually started to come off about 14 games ago. Our offense has been pathetic in that stretch...with a little decent defensive ball thrown in to make it seem like there was something good going on, but we are 3-10 over the last 13 games with the worst offense in the NFL...easily.
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Old 10-10-2005   #11
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Originally Posted by Vinny
The wheels actually started to come off about 14 games ago. Our offense has been pathetic in that stretch...with a little decent defensive ball thrown in to make it seem like there was something good going on, but we are 3-10 over the last 13 games with the worst offense in the NFL...easily.
This is absolute fact. Go back and read some of Carr's post-game comments after being emberrassed by Denver (beginning of The Curse of the Cover 2). "I didn't see this coming, to be honest with you," Carr said. And that was a great game for Carr by today's standard... 228 passing yards and 4 sacks. Since that game he has thrown for over 200 yards (barely) once and that was against a terrible Bears team.

Not to blow my horn, but myself and a few others have been wanting Capers' head to roll for quite a while now. The regression started in the middle of last season but most were only looking at the win/loss improvement and not at which direction the team was headed in. Finally, it's obvious to everyone, it's just too bad we had to lose this entire season and cause further damage which will hinder progress for years to come.
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Old 10-10-2005   #12
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Originally Posted by the wonger need food
This is absolute fact. Go back and read some of Carr's post-game comments after being emberrassed by Denver (beginning of The Curse of the Cover 2). "I didn't see this coming, to be honest with you," Carr said. And that was a great game for Carr by today's standard... 228 passing yards and 4 sacks. Since that game he has thrown for over 200 yards (barely) once and that was against a terrible Bears team.

Not to blow my horn, but myself and a few others have been wanting Capers' head to roll for quite a while now. The regression started in the middle of last season but most were only looking at the win/loss improvement and not at which direction the team was headed in. Finally, it's obvious to everyone, it's just too bad we had to lose this entire season and cause further damage which will hinder progress for years to come.
I was one of the delusional fans that had total faith in our organization. I admitt i'm easily duped by things I love. I buy into what I'm told and come hell or highwater.. I'm on board. I'm sad to say it, but reality is setting in... and it's an ugly... ugly place.
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Old 10-10-2005   #13
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Originally Posted by Tulip
But did we, the fans, cultivate that mentality? Have we been watering the failure plant all along?
I don't think the expectations of the fans were unreasonable. In fact, I would say our largesse to Capers and the Texans was better than many other teams could expect. Think how badly Miami was roasted (starting with their loss to a second-year expansion team). When we started, the Jags were building and the Titans were falling. Since then, all three teams are showing signs of life. As for the Texans? We are still floundering. No, our largesse to Capers and crew has been squandered by an inept coaching staff.
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Old 10-10-2005   #14
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Default Saw This in Pre-Season

I saw the train wreck coming in pre-season. Everyone kept saying, "Don't worry, it's only pre-season." They overlooked that we were never even competitive (lucky to win the one game we did). People thought I was being negative when I predicted a 5-11 record in mid August. Now I think we'll be lucky to win 3.
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Old 10-10-2005   #15
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Capster, I'm right there with you. Nobody listened to me when I said we hadn't done squat to solve our o-line problems either.

And dang if I haven't gone and lost McNair's cell phone number that he had given me last year as well, so I'm completely unable to help at this point. I'm just another voice in the riot crowd now...
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