Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-05-2005   #21
Htown34s
Veteran
 
Htown34s's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 44
Posts: 384
Rep Power: 11 Htown34s is a team player
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayseed2002
Go back and READ THE THREADS!!!!! This started out about NOT having an owner like JJ........ I hope McNair is as successful over time as JJ...... GEEZ>.... READ BEFORE YOU FLAP THE GUMS!

What is up with you dude? Have you read the title of the thread and the first post?
__________________
"I'm going to win them over regardless" -Mario Williams
Htown34s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005   #22
TheOgre
Hall of Fame
 
TheOgre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Back in the cellar again
Posts: 3,739
Rep Power: 17 TheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
People say that but it really isn't fair IMO. Seems like the Saints and Washington had a blockbuster trade involving a stud RB and eight draft picks. How many SB's have the Skins have won since then (heck how about winning seasons)? Maybe there was more to the JJ thing than just one lucky trade.
I didn't think the Saints/Redskins trade was 8 picks. I thought the Saints were already low on picks that year and just traded what they had left to the Redskins.

Mike Lynn (Vikings GM) made THE worst trade in NFL history. He traded for a good back and gave up a ton of players and picks in the process. It set that team back for years. Jimmy Johnson definitely did well with those picks. He made the most of it, but that team probably wouldn't have been nearly as good without that trade.
TheOgre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005   #23
William.carter
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Age: 40
Posts: 151
Rep Power: 10 William.carter is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tankhead
this is not the busy part of the year for GM's
GMs work year round. There really isn't a not busy part of the year for them. It's scouting, courting, dealing 24/7/365.

Last edited by William.carter; 10-05-2005 at 11:00 AM.
William.carter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005   #24
HardKnockTexan
All Pro
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Age: 34
Posts: 576
Rep Power: 28 HardKnockTexan is a Legendary performerHardKnockTexan is a Legendary performerHardKnockTexan is a Legendary performerHardKnockTexan is a Legendary performerHardKnockTexan is a Legendary performerHardKnockTexan is a Legendary performerHardKnockTexan is a Legendary performerHardKnockTexan is a Legendary performerHardKnockTexan is a Legendary performerHardKnockTexan is a Legendary performerHardKnockTexan is a Legendary performer
Default

I give credit for Johnson and Jones for pulling off that trade. But things have to happen in a perfect order for a dinesty to be born. Luck, stupidity and good decission making all comes into play. Would I trade McNair for Jones?? not in a heart beat.
__________________
Let the football gods smile down on us.
HardKnockTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005   #25
Lucky
Moderator
 
Lucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,974
Rep Power: 119828 Lucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel
...I guess by year 3 of the new staff, it's boom or bust with this crowd, 'eh? Bill Cowher would/could never make it in this market.
The Steelers made the playoffs in Cowher's 1st 6 seasons as head coach. I think he'd make it here.
__________________
“We’re looking for a coach that...works with great energy and enthusiasm and very positive in his approach.” - Bob McNair
Lucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005   #26
touttail
All Pro
 
touttail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Baytown
Age: 59
Posts: 948
Rep Power: 10 touttail is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel
I guess you want a Jerry Jones-type owner roaming the sidelines every game while looking over our coach's back?:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Not that UGLY sucker!


bobby 119C
touttail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005   #27
Double Barrel
Modified Simian
 
Double Barrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Onward, Upward, and back into the Trees
Section: Gridiron, Tx
Age: 47
Posts: 30,309
Rep Power: 275466 Double Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
The Steelers made the playoffs in Cowher's 1st 6 seasons as head coach. I think he'd make it here.
I respect that fact, but he didn't have to build a brand new team. (He was working with players from the Chuck Noll era to start his new HC career.)

Do you honestly believe that the fans crying for Caper's head on a platter wouldn't be calling for Cowher's head this season?

I seriously doubt Cowher would have this team in any better position at this point (except maybe fire in the belly, but that's subjective).
__________________
"Football is only a diversion." ~ HOUSTON TEXANS
Double Barrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 10-05-2005   #28
Lucky
Moderator
 
Lucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,974
Rep Power: 119828 Lucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel
I respect that fact, but he didn't have to build a brand new team. (He was working with players from the Chuck Noll era to start his new HC career.)
Noll's Steelers missed the playoffs in 6 of his last 7 years as head coach. They may have been Noll's players, but they played better under Bill Cowher.

And yes, I think Bill Cowher & staff would achieve more with this group than Dom Capers & staff have. I also believe that the fans are justified in calling for new leadership. Unlike previous seasons, the Texans have not improved this season over last. In fact, they've regressed and I feel Dom Capers has taken them as far as he can.
__________________
“We’re looking for a coach that...works with great energy and enthusiasm and very positive in his approach.” - Bob McNair
Lucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005   #29
BREAZE
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 43
Posts: 280
Rep Power: 0 BREAZE is ridin' the pine
Default

Jerry Jones gets mentioned and all hell breaks loose.

There is a fundamental difference between JJ and BM and that's ego. BM would have never let Jimmie Johnson go, but he might be smart enough to bring him back...
BREAZE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005   #30
BREAZE
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 43
Posts: 280
Rep Power: 0 BREAZE is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Htown34s
What is up with you dude? Have you read the title of the thread and the first post?

You obviously misunderstood the 1st post. The point is if time proves that the head coach's and GM's formula/stategy backfires then the owner has to be mentioned from an accountablilty standpoint...he hired them and all arrows are beginning to point towards a backfire.

Everbody is confident BM will do the right thing and get this bus heading in the right direction.
BREAZE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005   #31
Double Barrel
Modified Simian
 
Double Barrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Onward, Upward, and back into the Trees
Section: Gridiron, Tx
Age: 47
Posts: 30,309
Rep Power: 275466 Double Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
Noll's Steelers missed the playoffs in 6 of his last 7 years as head coach. They may have been Noll's players, but they played better under Bill Cowher.

And yes, I think Bill Cowher & staff would achieve more with this group than Dom Capers & staff have. I also believe that the fans are justified in calling for new leadership. Unlike previous seasons, the Texans have not improved this season over last. In fact, they've regressed and I feel Dom Capers has taken them as far as he can.
Without a doubt, Noll had lost the confidence of the team (even after earning four championships in his tenure).

However, he and his staff still picked the talent that Cowher utilized his first several years with successful results.

My point is that Cowher did not start off with nothing. Capers & Co. did, and have built from the ground up.

I still think Cowher (or whoever) would have had a tough battle with the expansion deal that was given to the Texans. I seriously doubt anybody would have built a playoff contender from scratch in four years. (Please don't refer me to the Panthers or Jaguars, as they had completely different expansion deals than offered to the Browns or Texans.)

And if we turnover our entire front office (from the GM down, which seems to be the prevalent thought around here) every three years, I think success will be fleeting, at best.
__________________
"Football is only a diversion." ~ HOUSTON TEXANS
Double Barrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005   #32
Htown34s
Veteran
 
Htown34s's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 44
Posts: 384
Rep Power: 11 Htown34s is a team player
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BREAZE
You obviously misunderstood the 1st post.
I guess I interpreted it differently. To me, when you take the title you choose for this thread together with your first post it comes across differently. Assigning the blame to him means that he caused all of this to happen, that he was the one directly responsible.

Bob was a new owner when he made his hires, and I'll bet a lot of what he did was based on suggestions from others within the NFL. To me his first big test will be his next move.
__________________
"I'm going to win them over regardless" -Mario Williams
Htown34s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005   #33
HoustonFan
Hall of Fame
 
HoustonFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 36
Posts: 1,180
Rep Power: 0 HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan
Send a message via AIM to HoustonFan Send a message via MSN to HoustonFan Send a message via Yahoo to HoustonFan
Default

As much as I like the Cowboys I can't stand Jerry Jones. McNair is a much classier person than Jones. I'm grateful for him bringing football back to Houston. Got a great facility that other cities are jocking - especially Jones that asswhore. Anyway, we still have a long season ahead. The team can turn this around. So in hoping that it begins to happen this week, GO TEXANS!!!!!
__________________
Frustrated watching the Texans? Then you definitely need this!!!!!
HoustonFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005   #34
CowboysTexansFan
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Age: 47
Posts: 311
Rep Power: 10 CowboysTexansFan is a team player
Default

I think Mr. McNair has been a great owner and will do whatever is necessary to replace incompetent people in the front office and on the coaching staff. He said so himself after the Pittsburgh game: "Whatever changes we need to make, we'll make." He also said there was no point in making a change if the change wouldn't improve anything.

Shortly after that, Palmer was fired and the team showed some life last week. Firing Capers and Casserly now probably wouldn't be the best thing to do. If the team continues on its downward trajectory, I'm confident he'll show both of those guys the door. I can't imagine he wants to be the owner of a team that's the butt of jokes.

I'd love to see Mr. McNair hire Jimmy Johnson as head coach/GM or as head coach with final say in personnel matters. He's proven to be a great evaluator of talent and a winner in the NFL. Hopefully, his competitive juices are flowing again and he'd be willing to leave his cushy analyst job for the rigors of building a Super Bowl contender.
CowboysTexansFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005   #35
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
 
cuppacoffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 74
Posts: 4,448
Rep Power: 40925 cuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Blame McNair for what? This is a game people....teams win and teams lose. A great game that only a few cities have and we only have 8 home games a year at that. Anybody mad at the owner because this team isn't a playoff team right now is not looking at this with any fair perspective whatsoever. If the Men he hired can't get it done he will get other Coaches and GM's. Every team in the league has rough periods...even expansion teams. This season will play out quickly. If we lose to the Tacks we can start to "Grab the shovel". I think this may catch on as much as Bum's "hold the rope" rally cry.
I think many of the posters (myself included) would prefer to "get a rope".
IMHO We Texan fans just set ourselves up for this letdown with all the offseason playoff talk.
__________________
"Change is not what we expect from religious people. They tend to love the past more than the present or the future." - Richard Rohr
cuppacoffee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005   #36
lucky13
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafterticket
No way a guy throws away 700 million to field mediocrity.
he did not "throw away 700 million"

you do understand he gets a huge positive cash flow back from that, right?

the level of fawning serfdom in houston gets really old.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005   #37
Grid
Hall of Fame
 
Grid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,299
Rep Power: 2272 Grid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

lucky he is still paying that 700 million off. so..no..he isnt raking it in right now. Maybe down the road.
Grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005   #38
rafterticket
Veteran
 
rafterticket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 324
Rep Power: 10 rafterticket is a team player
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky13
he did not "throw away 700 million"

you do understand he gets a huge positive cash flow back from that, right?

the level of fawning serfdom in houston gets really old.
Did you know that HE gets the revenue for butts in seats? That means concessions. He won't make that much money off 12,000 Sunday beer drunks if his team stinks, buddy. Everything else is part of their revenue sharing.

No "serf" here, pal.
rafterticket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2005   #39
Ibar_Harry
Hall of Fame
 
Ibar_Harry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,219
Rep Power: 15 Ibar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVP
Default

I think McNair and Casserly are suffering from the total incompetence of the Capers' coaching staff. Capers I believe is the biggest problem and pushing his wishes at the expense of the team. He can not adapt to his players and that's it in a nut shell. I still think Casserly has done a reasonable job drafting, but he's being pushed by Capers on the use of certain picks.

I'm also going to say that Capers caused another big problem with the drafting of players. Remember, Casserly's philosophy is to pick the best talent available at the time of the pick. He deemed that to be Carr one year and AJ the next year. The problem is that Capers really didn't want those players. Quite frankly, with the Head Coach we have they should have drafted young defensive players and focused on older offensive players to build the offense until the defense was ready. They did the opposite and that really has hurt Capers and the Texans tremondously.

If you recall I've said the injuries in year 2 hurt us much more than people understood. One of the big reasons is that the defense we were building was made up of older experience players who reached the end of their careers before we expected. This has resulted in many unexpected holes in the defense which had to be replaced a lot sooner than planned based on Capers plans. Because of Capers philosophy they had no extra picks to use on O-line players.

Casserly was going in one direction and his head coach was going in another. Why? Because the head coach is incapable of adapting to what he has, not what he wants. Casserly saw big value in the picks he choose, like Carr and AJ, but they didn't fit into Caper's wish list. The end result has been Chaos. No, don't fire any more players or Casserly, but do fire everyone of the coaches except for perhaps the special teams coaches.

I do agree that we need to see more fire coming from McNair and directed towards the coaching staff. I firmly believe that Capers sold everyone a bill of goods concerning this year's O-line. He went totally against the stated wishes of McNair. On a ship that would be called MUTINY. Capers should walk the plank.............................
Ibar_Harry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2005   #40
humbleone
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Age: 59
Posts: 343
Rep Power: 10 humbleone is a fan favorite
Default

Great post Ibar...one of the best I have read. I would only add that I believe it is a mistake for McNair to give Capers and Fangio anymore time (and especially not 13 more games).

Why? Because I actually now believe the situation has declined to the point where their incompetence has risen to the level of putting players that we will need to build this team on next year at risk (both physically and psychologically)
humbleone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger