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Old 10-05-2005   #1
TheOgre
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Default Main problem offense or defense?

Looking at the score from last week and our inability to score, a cursory look might make you think that the offense alone was the problem. Take a closer look though.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playby...051002_HOU@CIN

Our defense gave up three possessions of over 7 minutes apiece. Granted we held them to FG attempts (2 of 3) on those possessions, but it wore down our defense and kept our offense off of the field.

Our offense had 8 possessions in the game. You can throw out the one we had right before the first half (28 seconds left). We also started one with 1:08 left in the game. That leaves you with 6 non-2-minute-drill possessions the entire game. That is a problem folks. Not many teams are going to win under those circumstances. Our defense HAS to be more aggressive or we willl have many more losses like this one (or worse).

The offense held onto the ball fairly long and just needs to finish drives. I don't think we had a single 3 and out the entire game. We seem to bog down around the opponent's 30-45 yard line on a consistent basis. We need to finish these drives. Penalties and sacks seem to be the main culprit, but we already know that.

Bottom line is that the defense's bend-but-break mentality might hold opponents to FG's, but it shortens the game to our disadvantage too. Time to change it up or fire yet another coordinator IMO.
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Old 10-05-2005   #2
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I dont think its time to fire Fangio just yet, but he should be feeling the heat. I think the coaching staff can feel secure for the final 13 games. If things dont improve however, this offseason everyone will be searching for a new job.
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Old 10-05-2005   #3
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I think it has been time to fire FAngio for about two years now. Hoke is a much better full spectrum coach in my honest opinion. The guy is vocal, and does not take ****. Fangio has the same sit back and get it done mentality that Palmer had. A defensive coach is the guy on the team you want foaming at the mouth ready to kill someone. I do blame both units. The playcalling when we get into the opponents side of the field has been terrible. We went away from the bootleg and three step quick passes which kept our good redzone offense and kicker off the field. Our defense has been stagnant and not aggressive since the inception of this great franchise.
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Old 10-05-2005   #4
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I hate to say it, but I'm wondering about ol' Fangio. Number one, his D in Indy was bad! I mean, like bottom of the NFL kind of bad.

And then I wonder if he is running Caper's defense, as opposed to his own (like Palmer was running Caper's offense instead of his own). I can't see a coordinator being all that satisfied running someone else's scheme.

I'm kind of on the fence with our "bend-don't-break" defense. It requires an offense that can consistently put points on the board (even field goals). But they don't seem overly aggressive, and the lack of defensive turnovers is quite troubling. I've never been a big fan of the 3-4, as it looks too easy to run the ball against it. And required LBs that are better than average to penetrate, and our guys look like they are thrown back a good part of the time. I see stats on pressuring the QB, and they surprise me. Mainly because we don't necessarily look the part.

And is it me, or does our D look fairly easy to read at the line? Watching other teams, I see a lot of different looks that the defenses will show, but actually be doing something completely different. Our guys seem to line up and stay exactly like the play that has been called, without any faints or fake blitzes or whatever.
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Old 10-05-2005   #5
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No our defense is incredibly easy to read. We do not mix up blitzes or coverages that often. We are a 3-4 playing a cover 2 scheme and bottom line it does not work and it will never work. Fangio is running his thing, cause Capers has always been a blitz happy DC. So Fangio is really at fault, but it is also that he likely does not like the defense that he has been given. Peek, D-Rob, Wong, Coleman, CC Brown, Earl, TJ, and R-Smith are the only guys that are worth keeping in our defense right now, the rest are completely useless.
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Old 10-05-2005   #6
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Originally Posted by Coach C.
No our defense is incredibly easy to read. We do not mix up blitzes or coverages that often. We are a 3-4 playing a cover 2 scheme and bottom line it does not work and it will never work. Fangio is running his thing, cause Capers has always been a blitz happy DC. So Fangio is really at fault, but it is also that he likely does not like the defense that he has been given. Peek, D-Rob, Wong, Coleman, CC Brown, Earl, TJ, and R-Smith are the only guys that are worth keeping in our defense right now, the rest are completely useless.

Our blitzes seem VERY easy to pick up. That being said, I read somewhere, maybe it was the Bengals Quotes from the game, where Chad Johnson said the we had very exotic coverage scheme's. Stuff he's never seen before.
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Old 10-05-2005   #7
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Originally Posted by HardKnockTexan
Our blitzes seem VERY easy to pick up. That being said, I read somewhere, maybe it was the Bengals Quotes from the game, where Chad Johnson said the we had very exotic coverage scheme's. Stuff he's never seen before.
That was his excuse for not having a big day.
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Old 10-05-2005   #8
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That was his excuse for not having a big day.
So the Texans actually did something right??? Finally something good said!!
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Old 10-05-2005   #9
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Thanks for taking thant one infantry I did not want to have to explain it to him.
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Old 10-05-2005   #10
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I think it's about equal parts offense and defense. The offense is easier to pick on because of the glaring problems with sacks alllowed, lack of TDs and low yardage.

I'm not big into "Fire <Insert Name Here>" posts but I've never been thrilled with Fangio. I've posted this a few times before but here's my take again. Let Fangio go and have Capers take full responsiblity for the defense. He should be the HC/DC. If the defense is still ineffective then it justs adds fuel that Capers needs to be released after this season.
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Old 10-05-2005   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exascor
I think it's about equal parts offense and defense. The offense is easier to pick on because of the glaring problems with sacks alllowed, lack of TDs and low yardage.

I'm not big into "Fire <Insert Name Here>" posts but I've never been thrilled with Fangio. I've posted this a few times before but here's my take again. Let Fangio go and have Capers take full responsiblity for the defense. He should be the HC/DC. If the defense is still ineffective then it justs adds fuel that Capers needs to be released after this season.
We have an awesome coach in Hoke that would be perfect for the DC job. He is aggressive and loves to send the blitz. Considering that his unit is the only Defensive unit worth bragging about I say he is the right man for the job. By the way his unit is the secondary.
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Old 10-05-2005   #12
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Originally Posted by Coach C.
Thanks for taking thant one infantry I did not want to have to explain it to him.
Sorry if my tiny little football mind isnt up to par with your gigantic one but I just like to stay positive about MY team. Being the first team to not give up a big play to Johnson is a good thing... right??
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Old 10-05-2005   #13
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I'm not usually into "FIRE <coach>" posts either. I didn't even intend to say that when I started this thread. It just came out when I realized how our defense struggles to get sacks, turnovers, or 3-and-outs. If you aren't being aggressive, then you better be good at stopping possessions on downs.
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Old 10-05-2005   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach C.
We have an awesome coach in Hoke that would be perfect for the DC job. He is aggressive and loves to send the blitz. Considering that his unit is the only Defensive unit worth bragging about I say he is the right man for the job. By the way his unit is the secondary.
So in mid-season we are going to have a D-back coach with no NFL coordinator experience come in and change the defense? No thanks. Hoke seems to be a great guy and extremely animated. That doesn't qualify him as a DC though. If he fails then would we be blaming him or Capers? This is Capers team and he should be flat embarassed about his defense's lack of production. This D has shown nothing so far with Fangio in charge so Capers needs to take this one himself IMO. If things turn around, Capers holds on to his job and he feels Hoke is the man, he'll promote him.

Just my
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Old 10-05-2005   #15
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The defense is bad, you can't mask a #32 rating. We apply little pressure on the QB and our CB's are not sticking to their man or locking the zone. If the Bengals didn't have such a bad day at the office the score would have been much worse. They had several drives where they shot themselves in the foot.
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Old 10-05-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exascor
This is Capers team and he should be flat embarassed about his defense's lack of production. This D has shown nothing so far with Fangio in charge so Capers needs to take this one himself IMO.
I tend to agree with you for the most part. Fangio doesn't seem to trust his secondary enough. Last year illustrates this pretty well. I understand having some hesitation early on in the season when DRob was still adjusting to the NFL and Coleman was learning the FS position on the fly, but you'd think by midseason DRob would've earned his trust enough for Fangio to send the blitz more often. He doesn't seem like he's willing to gamble, and that makes his scheme become more predictable. I feel if he would gamble every now and then he'd keep the opposing teams guessing, and that would make our defense more effective at creating game changing plays.
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Old 10-05-2005   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exascor
So in mid-season we are going to have a D-back coach with no NFL coordinator experience come in and change the defense? No thanks. Hoke seems to be a great guy and extremely animated. That doesn't qualify him as a DC though. If he fails then would we be blaming him or Capers? This is Capers team and he should be flat embarassed about his defense's lack of production. This D has shown nothing so far with Fangio in charge so Capers needs to take this one himself IMO. If things turn around, Capers holds on to his job and he feels Hoke is the man, he'll promote him.

Just my
Exascor, I am not saying your wrong, but I am just one of those football guys that thinks you need to delegate. there are teams that go without an O or D coordinator, but I feel that Capers does not have that ability to do so. I want Capers to make the calls, but I feel like Hoke as DC would be able to coach up the defense more. By coach up I mean have them mean and aggressive.
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Old 10-05-2005   #18
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Our biggest problem is our offense, not scoring points and p[oints win the game.

Our defense has kept us in the game: Buffalo 22, Pittsburgh 27, Cincy 16.
These points are beatable if our offense was clicking!

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Old 10-05-2005   #19
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Offense definetly!
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Old 10-05-2005   #20
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Our problem is depth. Or lack thereof,our offensive line is aging with no real infusion of youth. The line starts off with great protection but as the game wears on the line seems to fatigue and the defenses start getting to Carr. WE can win if we have the lead in the fourth quarter and don't have to resort to the pass. We only have depth at the offensive skill positions, everywhere else the cupboard is kinda bare once you get past the 1st string. plus i find it ironic now that everyone is goin the 3-4 route, that the 4-3 defenses seem to be the better defenses this year... We still have some time before we can be a true playoff team, We lack the depth to have guys that can come off the bench and make an impact. Coaching can only go so far when your best players are exhausted and out of gas in the late stages of a game peeps. This is what happens when a team builds via the draft. I liked the offense a lot more we looked more confident and it showed..our defense played well but when you are tired in the 4th quarter and all you are getting is does after dose of rudi johnson, you cant expect miracles.
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