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Old 10-03-2005   #1
Toxicology
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Default We're Just Not That Talented

This may be the first thread I've ever started. I have come to the conclusion that the talent just is not there. The blame for this season should fall primarily with Casserly. I'm not saying Capers should be kept, but he hasn't been given all that much talent. It's not like he has a bunch of world beaters he is holding back. The current talent base should generate a record of 7-9 or 9-7. It remains to be seen whether we get there by the end of the year.
However, it is apparent to me that we do not have enough talent to get into the playoffs, much less become a factor in the post season.

First, games are won in the trenches and our D and O lines are well below average in talent. Our O-Line has all the hallmarks of a sub par line: numerous penalties, inability to pass protect with any consistency, inability to generate forward push. Our defensive front seven rarely, if ever, make a play behind the line of scrimmage. We rarely put pressure on the passer. Our blitz success ratio is horrendous (how many times did the Bengals pick up our pathetic blitz, giving Palmer all day ?)

With the exception of Dunta Robinson and Andre Johnson, we have few notable skill position players. I think Carr has talent but he has lost his confidence in the line and is not stepping up. I don't know if he will fullfill his potential. Davis is negligibly above average. Our 2nd and 3rd receivers are well below average. (I don't know why Armstrong isn't playing more). Other than D-Rob, the rest of our secondary is average.

When you combine the mediocre talent at the skill positions with weak lines, you get 0-3. We will beat some ****** teams because their talent base is swiss cheese like ours.
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Old 10-03-2005   #2
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I agree. And to add that when you yank veteran leadership in Glenn and Sharper and add backups from a draft instead of starters, the blame should fall squarely in the lap of the person responsible for putting this team on the field. Capers at least kept us in the game.
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Old 10-03-2005   #3
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Originally Posted by Toxicology
...The blame for this season should fall primarily with Casserly. I'm not saying Capers should be kept, but he hasn't been given all that much talent...
Capers and his staff have had a lot of input into the personnel selection on the Texans. Just this offseason, they pushed for Greenwood and Buchanon. They were gaga over Babin a year ago. The coaching staff gave the thumbs up to Joppru, Wand, & Ragone after coaching them in the '03 Senior Bowl. Of course, they deserve props for backing the Dunta and DD picks, as well. As far as I'm concerned, Casserly & Capers are a package deal. Both warrant credit for the team's success, or lack thereof.

In my mind, the Patriots coaching staff could turn this group of players into winners. There is talent here, and I'm certain the McNair would have a strong list of candidates available to run this organization and coach some of these players.
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Old 10-03-2005   #4
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There's a shared responsibility between the GM and the coaching staff on player selection. Casserly has the overall accountability, yes, and everyone on the football ops side works for him but sometimes (like in Babin's case), a coach (or coordinator) pushes so hard for a player that the GM agrees to give up nearly half a draft to get him. In Babin's case, I hold Capers, Fangio, and Chuck Banker and Co. responsible for the talent assessment and Charley responsible for the price he agreed to pay. It's not like this GM is picking talent and stocking this roster in a vacuum.
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Old 10-03-2005   #5
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I honestly don't know, and I doubt any of us really do, who is responsible for what player selected. like Joopru pick, Capers indeed was his coach at the Senior Bowl, but Casserly was there live and in person too.
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Old 10-03-2005   #6
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Its hard to hold anybody responsible for the Joppru pick, that was just bad luck. If he never gets hurt he could be a solid player right now.
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Old 10-03-2005   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxicology
This may be the first thread I've ever started. I have come to the conclusion that the talent just is not there. The blame for this season should fall primarily with Casserly. I'm not saying Capers should be kept, but he hasn't been given all that much talent. It's not like he has a bunch of world beaters he is holding back. The current talent base should generate a record of 7-9 or 9-7. It remains to be seen whether we get there by the end of the year.
However, it is apparent to me that we do not have enough talent to get into the playoffs, much less become a factor in the post season.

First, games are won in the trenches and our D and O lines are well below average in talent. Our O-Line has all the hallmarks of a sub par line: numerous penalties, inability to pass protect with any consistency, inability to generate forward push. Our defensive front seven rarely, if ever, make a play behind the line of scrimmage. We rarely put pressure on the passer. Our blitz success ratio is horrendous (how many times did the Bengals pick up our pathetic blitz, giving Palmer all day ?)

With the exception of Dunta Robinson and Andre Johnson, we have few notable skill position players. I think Carr has talent but he has lost his confidence in the line and is not stepping up. I don't know if he will fullfill his potential. Davis is negligibly above average. Our 2nd and 3rd receivers are well below average. (I don't know why Armstrong isn't playing more). Other than D-Rob, the rest of our secondary is average.

When you combine the mediocre talent at the skill positions with weak lines, you get 0-3. We will beat some ****** teams because their talent base is swiss cheese like ours.
So true. But as far as running the ball I dont think DD is above average. He is above average as a WR.
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Old 10-03-2005   #8
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Originally Posted by Reddevil63
Its hard to hold anybody responsible for the Joppru pick, that was just bad luck. If he never gets hurt he could be a solid player right now.
That's true. And on the other hand, I really don't think Cass & Co should be showered with praise for the D-Rob selection. In that Draft, it was no secret we were going to zero in on a corner and it was the consensus that D-Rob and Deangelo Williams, who the Falcons selected a notch or two ahead of us,
were in a class by themselves.
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Old 10-03-2005   #9
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Originally Posted by nunusguy
That's true. And on the other hand, I really don't think Cass & Co should be showered with praise for the D-Rob selection. In that Draft, it was no secret we were going to zero in on a corner and it was the consensus that D-Rob and Deangelo Williams, who the Falcons selected a notch or two ahead of us,
were in a class by themselves.
Very true.

BTW... DeAngelo Hall is turning out to be a better corner than DRob, but DRob was a good selection nonetheless. Just another case of this coaching staff stunting the growth of potentially very good players.
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Old 10-03-2005   #10
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We'll never know how good Robinson can be until the defense finds a way to get to the QB. Our pass rush isn't doing him any favors at all.
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Old 10-05-2005   #11
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Originally Posted by the wonger need food
Very true.

BTW... DeAngelo Hall is turning out to be a better corner than DRob, but DRob was a good selection nonetheless. Just another case of this coaching staff stunting the growth of potentially very good players.

Is he? I remember last season how we all were calling him ME-angelo Hall and talking about how the Texans got lucky that Atlanta picked the wrong one of the two. Now it's other way around is it?

Maybe Hall just plays on a team that can generate a pass rush. For the last three years I've said over and over again that it's a mistake to judge the skill positions on offense until the Texans put a viable offensive line on the field.

When it comes to our secondary I'd say it's a mistake to judge their play until the defensive line and linebackers can actually generate some pressure. without pressure nobody can cover todays recievers for long.

It doesn't help that we lost a declining but solid veteran opposite Dunta and replaced him with Buchanon.
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Old 10-05-2005   #12
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Originally Posted by ledzeppelin269
We'll never know how good Robinson can be until the defense finds a way to get to the QB. Our pass rush isn't doing him any favors at all.
Said in another way: We know how good he is, because look at his performance without the support of a good pass rush.
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Old 10-05-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the wonger need food
BTW... DeAngelo Hall is turning out to be a better corner than DRob, but DRob was a good selection nonetheless. Just another case of this coaching staff stunting the growth of potentially very good players.
Comments like that make it appear you really are just around to be negative and provoke people. Dunta's rookie year was irrefutably better than Hall to the degree teams have all obviously been game planning away from him. That combined with a pass rush gives Hall "better" stats this year. And of course there isn't a position stats are more misleading for. But you knew that and just wanted to dig at the team again.
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Old 10-05-2005   #14
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When you have sack ratio of 4/20, you don't really have to wonder why you're 0-3. I've heard many people comment that the coaching staff doesn't adjust the scheme to fit the personnel. Well, that assumes that you have talented players . . . when you don't. They couldn't get it done, no matter what scheme they tried.

Case in point. Say Capers was to make an announcement that the 3-4 is out, and they're going to a 4-3. OK . . . who would you have on the front 4? Babin, Peek? . . . c'mon! It wouldn't make difference. Same thing with the O-line.

I don't how many times I've said this, but it's still true, and to some, it is incredibly hard to accept. If you take the position that you indeed have talented players, but instead blame the coaching staff or the scheme for the failure to win, then you are taking the position that all you need to do is change the coach or the scheme, and then . . . BOOM! . . . you have a winner!

But if you accept the fact that the players are not that good, then you are accepting the fact that there is a long, long road to hoe. Now sure, the staff responsible for picking these untalented players should be held accountable, but it still going to be a long, long time before they turn this around.
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Old 10-05-2005   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus

I don't how many times I've said this, but it's still true, and to some, it is incredibly hard to accept. If you take the position that you indeed have talented players, but instead blame the coaching staff or the scheme for the failure to win, then you are taking the position that all you need to do is change the coach or the scheme, and then . . . BOOM! . . . you have a winner!

But if you accept the fact that the players are not that good, then you are accepting the fact that there is a long, long road to hoe. Now sure, the staff responsible for picking these untalented players should be held accountable, but it still going to be a long, long time before they turn this around.
You make some good points, but there are things the coaching staff may be doing wrong. Areas such as who makes the roster (Hollings), #2 receiver (Bradford, unless Gaffney has finally supplanted him), no schemes to double team great pass rushers (LT and TE on a guy, instead of the TE chipping and going), etc.

For instance at the LT position they have chosen to go with a slow footed player with a lot of girth and strength. This is a position where a faster player could do a better job. Wand started every game last year, and with the exception of one game played every offensive down. He can't even get on the field this year, and judging by the way he lost his job before any competition was done in training camp, I have to believe that this change was more personal than performance driven.

Wand's stats last year are better than Riley's projected stats this year, and judging by the last game Riley isn't geting any better. Wand is a younger player who should improve given the proper coaching, practice time with the first team, and playing time. Why not make a change - LT play can't get much worse than last game.

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Old 10-05-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus
When you have sack ratio of 4/20, you don't really have to wonder why you're 0-3. I've heard many people comment that the coaching staff doesn't adjust the scheme to fit the personnel. Well, that assumes that you have talented players . . . when you don't. They couldn't get it done, no matter what scheme they tried.

Case in point. Say Capers was to make an announcement that the 3-4 is out, and they're going to a 4-3. OK . . . who would you have on the front 4? Babin, Peek? . . . c'mon! It wouldn't make difference. Same thing with the O-line.
You are looking too large on the scale of scheme changes. There are plenty of things that can be done such as playing to the strengths of the players that are not being done now. For example, every quote we hear from the coaching staff is Peek is our best pass rusher--well then scheme to have him rush the passer not drop into freakin' coverage all day long. Funny, when exactly that kind of change was made within the same base 3-4 system, Foley went from not talented enough to make our Houston Texans to a pro-bowler on a team that righted their ship from the tune of 4-12 to 12-4 with cast-offs (Foley), a washed up QB and a rookie and cast-off OL, oh yeah and a WR with too much attitude. We hear the coaching staff talk about how Armstrong and Gaffney have the best hands--well then get them off the inactive list or the bench and into the game. But no, let's put Bradford into the game because he is fast even though you have to go back 6 games for him to have collectively caught as many passes as Gaffney did in the last game. We have a coach who takes stats down fanatically but somehow allows or instructs the OC to keep putting in heavy package run formations when we run better from 3 and 4 WR sets. We have one of the biggest, toughest, fastest athletic freaks of a WR--when was the last time you saw him crossing the middle of the field? Is the talent enough, probably not--of course nobody thought San Diego's talent was enough either. One thing is for certain at this point though IMO, the coaching staff isn't getting everything out of the talent either.
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Old 10-05-2005   #17
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
Is the talent enough, probably not--of course nobody thought San Diego's talent was enough either. .
I am with you , hell look what San Diego has done with their tight end. Gates is a monster, the Texans don't know what a TE is on offense, at least they don't act like it. Billy Miller wasn't a great blocker but he could catch a ball. Even scored our very first TD. Carr could dump the ball to him and he would catch it for some good yardage. I understand you need blocking, but you can't win without scoring points either!

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Old 10-05-2005   #18
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Does anyone believe the TE were utilized a little better in Pendry's offense? Palmer has never really been a TE kind of guy.
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Old 10-05-2005   #19
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Does anyone believe the TE were utilized a little better in Pendry's offense? Palmer has never really been a TE kind of guy.
We would have thought so if Rivers had caught those passes.
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Old 10-05-2005   #20
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
You are looking too large on the scale of scheme changes. There are plenty of things that can be done such as playing to the strengths of the players that are not being done now. For example, every quote we hear from the coaching staff is Peek is our best pass rusher--well then scheme to have him rush the passer not drop into freakin' coverage all day long. Funny, when exactly that kind of change was made within the same base 3-4 system, Foley went from not talented enough to make our Houston Texans to a pro-bowler on a team that righted their ship from the tune of 4-12 to 12-4 with cast-offs (Foley), a washed up QB and a rookie and cast-off OL, oh yeah and a WR with too much attitude. We hear the coaching staff talk about how Armstrong and Gaffney have the best hands--well then get them off the inactive list or the bench and into the game. But no, let's put Bradford into the game because he is fast even though you have to go back 6 games for him to have collectively caught as many passes as Gaffney did in the last game. We have a coach who takes stats down fanatically but somehow allows or instructs the OC to keep putting in heavy package run formations when we run better from 3 and 4 WR sets. We have one of the biggest, toughest, fastest athletic freaks of a WR--when was the last time you saw him crossing the middle of the field? Is the talent enough, probably not--of course nobody thought San Diego's talent was enough either. One thing is for certain at this point though IMO, the coaching staff isn't getting everything out of the talent either.
...good post! I've got to wonder why Capers doesn't see these problems and try something new--no doubt he doesn't like change nor admitting he's ever wrong...heck, nobody's perfect and we all make mistakes, no shame in that.
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