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Old 10-03-2005   #41
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At least Carr's tackles were close by to support him. (See previous picture)
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Old 10-03-2005   #42
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I went over the "fumble/inc pass" and it seems to me like his arm was moving forward at contact. He was trying to get a pass off, it shouldn't be relevant if it goes 1 yard or 100. He couldn't get any kind of follow through though so the pass was extremely weak and his hand hit it as it left his possesion. I still think it was an incomplete pass.

Rudi Johnson was "kind of" in the area, but honestly he comes in at the end of the frame after Palmer has drilled it into the dirt. He wasn't trying to complete a pass at all. He was trying to bail himself out of a sack after trying to do his best Vick impression.
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Old 10-03-2005   #43
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Originally Posted by ledzeppelin269
Rudi Johnson was "kind of" in the area, but honestly he comes in at the end of the frame after Palmer has drilled it into the dirt. He wasn't trying to complete a pass at all. He was trying to bail himself out of a sack after trying to do his best Vick impression.
That's a homer take. Reverse it and you say Carr has a guy in the area. Everyone dumps passes like that.
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Old 10-03-2005   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
That's a homer take. Reverse it and you say Carr has a guy in the area. Everyone dumps passes like that.
Actually, watch the NFL films highlights of the game yesterday on the Texans front page. You'd be surprised at how far back Rudi was at the time. I'd say at least 10+ yards, and its decieving because he was running towards the ball bouncing.

It also has good slowed down version of the Carr fumble from different angles.
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Old 10-03-2005   #45
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10 yards is close enough. I argued a play with a wider miss with Carr at hpf on my week 1 playsheet, there was really not a need for INT grounding on that one or this one (carr wasn't called on the one I'm talking about but he missed by a wider margin).
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Old 10-03-2005   #46
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If you squint your eyes and turn your head to the right (and don't forget to dim the lights), then - wait. nope. still looks like an incomplete pass.
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Old 10-03-2005   #47
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Originally Posted by Cheroqui
They never do. I get pissed because I'll want to see or hear what they have to say and they give us no press, absolutely no coverage at all. They do week to week on NFL channel and still don't talk about the team like they do the others. Either they don't mention us at all, or breeze through the team we have to play/played.
I understand that Detroit had a worse situation than we did, where the receiver caught the ball for a touchdown, but the instant replay overruled the TD. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ek4/index.html

I think this is the reason Houston's instant replay woes are being ignored.
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Old 10-03-2005   #48
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Which part of the ball, arm, or hand did not go forward? Its really amusing that some can defend the call or that there are that many fans unfamiliar with the rule book. Its like saying there was no facemask after watching a slow motion replay of someone getting their head ripped off by the facemask...nope, play stands. The refs had been proven earlier that they were blind with a challenge. Maybe the ego could not take 2 for 2? Another motive perhaps? If this game was the primetime game would the same call had been made?

Once the zebra looked at the replay beyond 30 sec.s it was quite clear he was more concerned with the proper spot and we were about to get the shaft. I changed the station to the Stros to avoid hearing the ref explain that the sky is really purple...
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Old 10-03-2005   #49
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what everyone is missing in this analysis is this IT IS THE SAME REFERREE WHO HAS NOW SCREWED UP NOT ONCE(Brady incomplete pass/fumble), NOT TWICE (coin toss debacle), BUT NOW, THREE TIMES(Carr incomplete pass/fumble)---AND HE IS STILL COLLECTING A PAYCHECK AFTER EVERY GAME

Until the NFL has full time Referee's who actually are accountable and the NFL is willing to actually FIRE one of them for incompetence, this will continue. Talk about a 'Good ol Boys club' of looking the other way group of imbeciles.
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Old 10-03-2005   #50
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Originally Posted by oso
I understand that Detroit had a worse situation than we did, where the receiver caught the ball for a touchdown, but the instant replay overruled the TD. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ek4/index.html

I think this is the reason Houston's instant replay woes are being ignored.

Why can't instant replay be used in the way it's supposed to be used. I'm beginning to think its for commercial purposes only. Its tainted year in and year out. Is this the NFL or boxing?
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Old 10-03-2005   #51
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Default Dear Mr. Tagliabue

Concerning the tuck rule, and the other rules concerning fumbles and forward passes:

EITHER THE RULES THEMSELVES, OR THE OFFICALS' INTERPRETATIONS OF THE RULES, ARE SERIOUSLY, COMPLETELY, *****ED!!!

THE NFL's INCOMPETENCE AND INDIFFERENCE ARE COSTING TEAMS GAMES AND CHAMPIONSHIPS.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE GET THE DAMN RULES FIXED!!!
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Old 10-03-2005   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinciBengals03
stop complaining about one play, I agree with the refs when there wasn't enough evidence to overturn the call. It looks more like he's pushing the ball with his palm without his fingers even around it... thus is being a fumble. The bengals got screwed on big plays as well, it really does even out.
Regardless of when his arm was hit, the ball doesn't leave his hand until it is far into the throwing motion. It was CLEARLY not a fumble, and I would be stunned if the league didn't apologize to the Texans later this week. The ESPN crew (Chris Berman, Tom Jackson, etc.) show even agreed it was a bad call.

There were questionable calls throughout the game that went both ways, but this call came at such a crutial time and situation that it determined the final outcome. I'm not saying that the Texans would have gone down and gotten a FG or TD, but they weren't even given a chance with that mistake. That call all but ended the game, whereas the other mistakes the refs made could be overcome much more easily.
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Old 10-03-2005   #53
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I understand everyone is upset about the call (I was, too), but we should've never let this game come down to one bad call to determine a win or loss for us. I felt there were bad calls on both sides of the ball and this one just happened at a more crucial time than the others. It was a big and bad call but I don't hear anyone else talking about the other factors involved that stopped us from winning this game. For some reason in the second half our offense completely got away from the rollouts and other similar pass plays that had helped us move the ball at will against their defense in the first half. They never showed they could stop it so why did we get away from it? The last drive of the game the offense had a complete meltdown in the last minute with sacks and penalties. You can say (which I've seen some people already mention) that the previous bad call had alot to do with the Offenses bad state but if that's the case then it shows me that this team doesn't have the character to overcome these type of situations which there will be plenty more of. To blame this whole game on one bad call is outrageous, and as I recall, although there wasn't near as much time we still had a chance to take it to the house and the offense completely fell apart. JMO
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Old 10-03-2005   #54
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what would the down and distance after the phantom fumble.?.Yes, I'm a Bengal fan and thought it was an incomplete pass.. But, I think it would have been 3rd and 13....not exactly a guaranteed first down...I would have liked to see how the Bengals would have responded if the call went the other way.
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Old 10-03-2005   #55
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Originally Posted by Doug
I understand everyone is upset about the call (I was, too), but we should've never let this game come down to one bad call to determine a win or loss for us.
I hear this a lot and I think it is league and media propaganda at work. It is a saying we have heard so much, that we just blindly accept it. The difference between good teams and bad teams is the ability to win these close games. If you look at the Patriots over the past few years, they have had several close wins, including all 3 of their Super Bowls. One or two plays can mean the difference between winning or losing.

In this case, the major play that cost us this game was a bad call from the refs. If we had gone on to win this game, it could have propelled us like the Chief's win last year. Instead, we are staring at an 0-3 start for the first time in our history. I would have liked to have seen if Carr and Co. could have gotten those next 35-40 yards to get into FG range, or better yet gotten a TD. It might not have happened, but we were all cheated out of that opportunity by a bad call. If we start out 0-8/1-7 or something horrible like that, I am going to look back at this game and wonder what could have been.
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Old 10-03-2005   #56
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While I respect your opinion I don't agree with it at all. I don't feel I'm blindly accepting anything. I watched the game and saw several other things that we should be blaming for this loss rather than one bad call. As horrible as this game went (penalties, sacks, etc) all it took was one controversial thing to get everyone upset and to point the finger at. You can sit here and say "what if" all day but that scenario could be used for almost every call made throughout the game. There were several other penalties in this game that could've changed the outcome, but that would be the players fault, not the refs so we don't want to do that. (Sarcasm)
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Old 10-03-2005   #57
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Dear Texan Fan,

I'm a die-hard Bengals fan but I have to admit, you guys got jobbed! The officiating was suspect the entire game and many of the bad calls went against the Bengals but that fumble call should have been corrected with the replay and wasn't. I saw NO way that could not be seen as an incomplete pass. I have to rate it as one of the Top 10 Colossal Blown Calls that I have ever seen. Just so you know, most Bengal fans DO recognize that the Texans got shafted on that and are shocked because for the past 15 years, those calls usually went against us.

Anyway, I didn't think the Texans looked too bad at all. A great effort by your O-Coordinator for a mid-season first game! Scared the hell out of me! Good luck through the rest of the season!

Apologetically Yours,
Random Cincy Bengal Fan

P.S. Glad the Stros edged out the Phillies and will be pulling for them to beat
out the Braves and, hopefully, Cards and freaking Yanks or Sox!

Last edited by cosmocon; 10-03-2005 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 10-03-2005   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by covcath1
what would the down and distance after the phantom fumble.?.Yes, I'm a Bengal fan and thought it was an incomplete pass.. But, I think it would have been 3rd and 13....not exactly a guaranteed first down...I would have liked to see how the Bengals would have responded if the call went the other way.
It was a 1st and 10 play so it would have become a 2nd and 10 play. Not a gimme, but certainly a solid chance.
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Old 10-03-2005   #59
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
It was a 1st and 10 play so it would have become a 2nd and 10 play. Not a gimme, but certainly a solid chance.

We're a bad team with very little fan support around the country. We can expect calls to go against us until that changes.
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Old 10-03-2005   #60
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Originally Posted by thegr8fan
what everyone is missing in this analysis is this IT IS THE SAME REFERREE WHO HAS NOW SCREWED UP NOT ONCE(Brady incomplete pass/fumble), NOT TWICE (coin toss debacle), BUT NOW, THREE TIMES(Carr incomplete pass/fumble)---AND HE IS STILL COLLECTING A PAYCHECK AFTER EVERY GAME
I say it's three strikes and he's out- hopefully somebody with the NFL will be smart and find a way to get rid of the guy without having to make the rest of the refs look bad and piss off whoever represents them, because I think that's what they're scared of.

Quote:
Until the NFL has full time Referee's who actually are accountable and the NFL is willing to actually FIRE one of them for incompetence, this will continue. Talk about a 'Good ol Boys club' of looking the other way group of imbeciles.
I hate that PC-BS idea some people have, that the worst guy can still have a job because he's been a part of your group for a while and he's one of your good buddies.
I'm glad he doesn't work at a nuclear power plant or something, because he sounds like the type of guy who would eventually cause a disaster because of making the wrong decisions. (that's sarcasm if you can't tell)
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