Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-29-2005   #1
J-Man
Veteran
 
J-Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ft Hood, Tx
Age: 38
Posts: 402
Rep Power: 10 J-Man is a team player
Default Bengals Take on Carr...hmmm.

This is a pretty intresting article about how the Bengals, specifically Carson Palmer and the coaching staff look at David Carr. Of note the DB coach for Cinci was a def coach for Fresno and saw Carr every day and gives his assesment of the talent.

Meat of the article deals with comparing the situations both former #1 picks were put in with their respective teams and how they have compared. I happen the think that the best thing for us (and I thought this during the expansion year) was that we bring in a veteran QB and let DC sit for a year. Casserly has said before that was the original plan but they couldn't find any takers because they knew their days were numbered with Carr waiting in the wings.

Link
__________________
Who's the Man?... J-Man, that's WHO!

Eat 'em Up, KATS!
J-Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2005   #2
Mr Shush
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Oxford, England
Age: 31
Posts: 176
Rep Power: 10 Mr Shush is ridin' the pine
Default

Actually, what evidence there is suggests that it doesn't really make much odds one way or the other to his chances of long-term success whether a highly drafted quarterback sits for a year or starts straight away. I'd link to the study Football Outsiders did on the subject, but their site's down at the minute because it can't cope with all the traffic caused by people following the new link from FOXSports.

What might have made a difference to his development is Boselli being healthy, and that really is where it all went wrong for this team.
Mr Shush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2005   #3
covcath1
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 28
Rep Power: 0 covcath1 is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Shush
Actually, what evidence there is suggests that it doesn't really make much odds one way or the other to his chances of long-term success whether a highly drafted quarterback sits for a year or starts straight away. I'd link to the study Football Outsiders did on the subject, but their site's down at the minute because it can't cope with all the traffic caused by people following the new link from FOXSports.

What might have made a difference to his development is Boselli being healthy, and that really is where it all went wrong for this team.

As the article indicates it depends on the situation. If you bring in a top QB and he completely gets killed and loses his confidence, that could definately derail his career. It happened to David Klingler. I don't know how he would have turned out if he could have learned from QB who was willing to teach him while he watched for a year, but I do know that he spent so much time on his back that he didn't trust his teammates or the coaching staff. Sooner or later that will get to your head.

SO your probably right ..if your offensive line would have been solid to begin with this discussion might be a mute point.
covcath1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2005   #4
covcath1
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 28
Rep Power: 0 covcath1 is ridin' the pine
Default interesting quote

“Always. Especially when you watch the playoffs with Pittsburgh and watching Ben (Roethlisberger) and he’s sitting back there and it looks like he’s having a blast,” Carr said. “If I could have done that my first year, yeah, it definitely would have been fun. But I wouldn’t change as far what I’ve gone through. It’s been tough at times. We haven’t won as many games as we wanted to. But I’ve had fun playing football. That’s what it comes down to.”

Interesting that Carr says it comes down to "having fun"...not as a learning experience or developing as a player
covcath1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2005   #5
Reddevil63
Hall of Fame
 
Reddevil63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Arlington
Age: 29
Posts: 1,253
Rep Power: 12 Reddevil63 is on the Pro-Bowl ballotReddevil63 is on the Pro-Bowl ballot
Send a message via AIM to Reddevil63 Send a message via Yahoo to Reddevil63
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by covcath1
Interesting that Carr says it comes down to "having fun"...not as a learning experience or developing as a player
Um ya, thats kinda why they play the game.
__________________
Keep Kevin Kolb in Houston in '07
Reddevil63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2005   #6
Runner
Hubcap Diamond
 
Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,693
Rep Power: 25614 Runner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddevil63
Um ya, thats kinda why they play the game.
I think an honest poll would show that most players play for the money, not for "the love of the game" or for "fun". Most wouldn't do what they do for a normal salary. Practice and games aren't as "fun" as they were 20 or 30 years ago.
Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2005   #7
covcath1
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 28
Rep Power: 0 covcath1 is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner
I think an honest poll would show that most players play for the money, not for "the love of the game" or for "fun". Most wouldn't do what they do for a normal salary. Practice and games aren't as "fun" as they were 20 or 30 years ago.
Good point..especially with all the injuries. Willie Anderson, O-Line for Bengals says he feels like a 100 y/o man walking around. Those players take a lot of punishment.
covcath1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 09-29-2005   #8
Dunta_23
All Pro
 
Dunta_23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Age: 31
Posts: 824
Rep Power: 10 Dunta_23 is a fan favorite
Default A Good Lil' read about David Carr & Carson Palmer

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8907823
Dunta_23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2005   #9
Storm
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Age: 50
Posts: 19
Rep Power: 0 Storm is ridin' the pine
Default

Its a shame that he has to deal with a new O Coord so early in his career

Is the playbook and system the same? you just hope that he doesn't get shellshocked before they build a line for him. As Bengal fans we are way too familiar with drafting QBs and throwing them to the wolves and praying that they are the savior without any supporting cast, hopefully your front office will realize how important a supporting cast is for him before its too late
Storm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2005   #10
BengalStripes
Rookie
 
BengalStripes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Age: 41
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 0 BengalStripes is ridin' the pine
Default

A good article. It sounds like Carr has his head screwed on straight. If the Texans' brass is stupid enough to cut him loose someone will pick him up and he'll be successful.

I know he's looked bad this season even when he got protection, but after getting clobbered so many times you know he has a voice in his head telling him "I'm about to get creamed."

Get him an O-Line and Carr will be fine.

Thanks for the link Dunta
BengalStripes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2005   #11
metalmike
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Tomball, Tx.
Age: 34
Posts: 133
Rep Power: 9 metalmike is ridin' the pine
Default


Get David some protection before we totally write him off. As of now, I'd say he has potential of being a decent QB. I'm sick of saying potential with this team. Get some real coaches so we can see what's wrong. I don't see Carr having that something special that Montana, Elway, Farve, Marino, or hell Moon had, but he can be ok. I'll take another losing season, IF that means making the changes to make us much better in the near future. Go Texans! Hope they stomp a mudhole in Cincy! Go ASTROS !! Go LONGHORNS !!!
metalmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2005   #12
HJam72
Hall of Fame
 
HJam72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Over here.
Age: 41
Posts: 11,247
Rep Power: 52069 HJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respected
Talking

You know what the problem with Carr is? He doesn't practice right. We could straighten out Babin and Carr by having having Babin knock the **** out of Carr about 8 times every practice. Then they'd understand their roles.
__________________

HJam72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2005   #13
touttail
All Pro
 
touttail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Baytown
Age: 58
Posts: 948
Rep Power: 10 touttail is ridin' the pine
Default

Take a look at Carr’s rookie year compared to Palmer’s first 16 starts:

Palmer attempts: 529; Carr 444
Palmer completions: 332; Carr 233
Palmer percentage: 62.7; Carr 52.5
Palmer yards 3,863; Carr 2,592
Palmer avg. yds/pass: 7.0; Carr 5.8
Palmer TDs 26; Carr 20
Palmer INTs: 20; Carr 15
Palmer sacks 28; Carr 76.
Palmer passer rating 84.0; Carr 62.8
Rushes
Palmer-18 for 47 yards(2004)
Carr-59 for 282 yards(2001)

Run David Run!!!!!!!!!
Kind of tough to have your stats up there when you are lying on your back or running for your life!

bobby 119C :brickwall

Last edited by touttail; 09-30-2005 at 07:18 AM.
touttail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2005   #14
swisher
Old School
 
swisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Atascocita
Age: 38
Posts: 1,612
Rep Power: 668 swisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I got all the way to part where it says "Houston, We Have A Problem."

I have a policy against reading anything witht that phrase attached to it.
swisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2005   #15
CinciFan
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Age: 54
Posts: 14
Rep Power: 0 CinciFan is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by touttail
Take a look at Carr’s rookie year compared to Palmer’s first 16 starts:

Palmer attempts: 529; Carr 444
Palmer completions: 332; Carr 233
Palmer percentage: 62.7; Carr 52.5
Palmer yards 3,863; Carr 2,592
Palmer avg. yds/pass: 7.0; Carr 5.8
Palmer TDs 26; Carr 20
Palmer INTs: 20; Carr 15
Palmer sacks 28; Carr 76.
Palmer passer rating 84.0; Carr 62.8
Rushes
Palmer-18 for 47 yards(2004)
Carr-59 for 282 yards(2001)

Run David Run!!!!!!!!!
Kind of tough to have your stats up there when you are lying on your back or running for your life!

bobby 119C :brickwall
76 sacks! Good grief! Well, no sense questioning his toughness, huh?

You guys have to get an O-line, or it won't matter if you have the best QB to ever play the game back there - eventually THE hit will come, and he'll be done. Plus, you just can't be successful that way.

Is any of that Carr's fault? does he tend to lock on to receivers or hold the ball too long? Or is it a porous line and lack of blitz pickup by the RB?
CinciFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2005   #16
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
 
Kaiser Toro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Straight Outta Austin
Age: 43
Posts: 16,000
Rep Power: 28048 Kaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I have not been a fan of Carr's contract. I was and have been a fan of Carr's arm stregnth (not his touch on the deep ball) and his runing skills once he has passed the line of the scrimmage.

The type of things the article speak to say things all can agree with. What they do not talk about are the intangibles that you hope that come with the first pick in the draft - periphereal vision, footwork and enduring leadership on the field when going through adverse times. These intangibles are very evident in Brady, Leftwich and Roethlisberger.

Go back and watch the tape on the 13 sacks and you will see that the O line had little do with them.
__________________
Smell the glove is here
Kaiser Toro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2005   #17
Exascor
Hall of Fame
 
Exascor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Atascocita
Posts: 1,566
Rep Power: 33516 Exascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respectedExascor is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinciFan
Is any of that Carr's fault? does he tend to lock on to receivers or hold the ball too long? Or is it a porous line and lack of blitz pickup by the RB?
Yes: Carr locks on his first target
Yes: Carr holds the ball too long
Yes: The line allows way too much penetration
Yes: The RBs and TEs have failed at picking up the blitzes
__________________
Texans v3.0 - Currently in alpha testing - Expected release date 9/7/2014
Exascor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2005   #18
bengalhook
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Age: 50
Posts: 8
Rep Power: 0 bengalhook is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BengalStripes
A good article. It sounds like Carr has his head screwed on straight. If the Texans' brass is stupid enough to cut him loose someone will pick him up and he'll be successful.

I know he's looked bad this season even when he got protection, but after getting clobbered so many times you know he has a voice in his head telling him "I'm about to get creamed."

Get him an O-Line and Carr will be fine.

Thanks for the link Dunta
Take it from Bengals fans who have seen too many of their young QBs thrown to the wolves.
bengalhook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2005   #19
GP 
Go Texans!
 
GP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 17,747
Rep Power: 50776 GP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

This is just as much Carr's fault as anything else.

His remarks about having fun, etc., and his total lack of honesty are just brutal. Brutal.

This guy will not be honest and say what he wants. And until he gets the courage to say what he thinks and not worry about (GASP!) offending anybody...he'll never be a leader.

He's got to start leading this team in every way, and that includes dropping the politically correct interview remarks in favor of a more realistic approach.

Some of you might think he is "classy" for not unloading and being honest about the state of this team, but I for one would just like to see him stop caring about being the humanitarian of the year and get in some people's faces when they drop balls, miss blocks, etc.

You see Peyton last Sunday when Dallas Clark dropped a SURE first down, caysing them to punt? Peyton was cussing at the guy and yelling at him, slaping his hands together and looking right at him the whole time. If Carr would just get personal with these guys, they'd play better.
GP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2005   #20
CinciFan
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Age: 54
Posts: 14
Rep Power: 0 CinciFan is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976
This is just as much Carr's fault as anything else.

His remarks about having fun, etc., and his total lack of honesty are just brutal. Brutal.

This guy will not be honest and say what he wants. And until he gets the courage to say what he thinks and not worry about (GASP!) offending anybody...he'll never be a leader.

He's got to start leading this team in every way, and that includes dropping the politically correct interview remarks in favor of a more realistic approach.

Some of you might think he is "classy" for not unloading and being honest about the state of this team, but I for one would just like to see him stop caring about being the humanitarian of the year and get in some people's faces when they drop balls, miss blocks, etc.

You see Peyton last Sunday when Dallas Clark dropped a SURE first down, caysing them to punt? Peyton was cussing at the guy and yelling at him, slaping his hands together and looking right at him the whole time. If Carr would just get personal with these guys, they'd play better.
Part of that comes from "moral authority". If Carr feels like he is personally making too many mistakes, how can he legitimately call out others? It takes the best players on the team stepping up and calling out lackadaisical performance by the others. I'm not saying Carr is not playing well; honestly I don't know except from comments I've read on this board. I'm just saying it's easier to call others out if your performance is solid, at least in your own mind. If Carr is down on himself a bit, he won't "go after" anyone else.
CinciFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger