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Old 09-26-2005   #21
Honoring Earl 34
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Its hard to answer any questions about Carr's awareness as a QB. On that note I would say he seems to lack in that category or he'd simply throw the ball away instead of taking a sack.
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Old 09-26-2005   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texanfan2002114
All that means is that Eli didn't start as a rookie and Carr started on an expansion team. Also Eli had a better O-Line and again Carr started on an expansion team.
That's not true. All it means is that Eli got sacked 13 times as a rookie while Carr got sacked 75 times (or something silly like that, I don't remember how many sacks Banks took that year). Yes Eli didn't start his entire rookie season but that doesn't change the fact that Eli got sacked 13 times that year while David got the stuffing beat out of him. Then defenders beat the stuffing for a little while to see if anything came out of it.

The numbers don't say that one's better than the other but they do show you what each of them learned about the NFL in thier rookie year.

Eli learned that starting is harder than it looks when he stepped in for Warner. David learned that the NFL hurts. I believe it has had a negative impact on his development and that it will hinder him for the rest of his career.

Anyone who starts a rookie from day one on an expansion team is out of his mind. Palmer did it in Cleveland and look what happened. Dom and Palmer did it here and the same thing happened. I think Dom didn't have a clue about what would happen because of the good experience he had with Collins in Carolina. He didn't start him right off the bat but when he did play him things worked out ok. Those expansion teams had a lot more instant talent around their rookies than Cleveland and Houston did later on.
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Old 09-26-2005   #23
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Carr has done nothing good this year, although if Eli was a Texan he would not do much better. it's hard to do good with no o-line. Texans will do nothing until they get some o-line help. Also doesn't help that they have the most predictible playbook in football. including college.
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Old 09-26-2005   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mexican_texan
Rookie Sacks:

My boy Eli: 13
Car: NFL Record 75
Last year Eli's record as a starter: 1 win, 6 losses.
Last year the NYG record when Eli played in the game: 1 win, 8 losses.
Last year the NYG record in games Eli doesn't take a snap: 5 wins, 3 losses.
Let thoses stats simmer for a while and smell the aroma of failure. (Also before Eli was put in the Giants were not doing that bad.)

Eli Manning's offensive tools:
Plaxico Burress & Amani Toomer at WR
Jeremy Shockey at TE
Tiki Barbar at RB
Better O-line than Texans

I would say Eli Manning is in a slightly better situation.

Eli may be a decent player in this league but as of right now he has proved nothing.
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Old 09-26-2005   #25
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How would anybody rank the the first player taken in the drafts

01 Vick
02 Carr
03 Palmer
04 Manning
05 Smith

or rank them 1-5.
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Old 09-26-2005   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBC_Justin
Last year Eli's record as a starter: 1 win, 6 losses.
Last year the NYG record when Eli played in the game: 1 win, 8 losses.
Last year the NYG record in games Eli doesn't take a snap: 5 wins, 3 losses.
Let thoses stats simmer for a while and smell the aroma of failure. (Also before Eli was put in the Giants were not doing that bad.)

Eli Manning's offensive tools:
Plaxico Burress & Amani Toomer at WR
Jeremy Shockey at TE
Tiki Barbar at RB
Better O-line than Texans

I would say Eli Manning is in a slightly better situation.

Eli may be a decent player in this league but as of right now he has proved nothing.
Burress is a talent but a head case. No one had huge expectations for him comng into the season. Toomer's numbers have fallen every year since 2002 in rec, yds and TD's (0 last year). In fact Toomer has 6 receptions this year in 3 games. Not sure how you are measuring the offensive lines. Shockey and Barber are better players than what we currently field.

But to say Manning has proved nothing and not to make a statement about what DC has done is a pocket veto at best.
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Old 09-26-2005   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34
How would anybody rank the the first player taken in the drafts

01 Vick
02 Carr
03 Palmer
04 Manning
05 Smith

or rank them 1-5.
At this point 1. Vick 2. Palmer 3. Carr 4. Manning 5. Smith. Although I believe Eli will get a lot better. His brother didn't do to good his first couple of years either. Eli is not near as good as Peyton though. Just saying he might be number 2 on that list later.
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Old 09-26-2005   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBC_Justin
Last year Eli's record as a starter: 1 win, 6 losses.
Last year the NYG record when Eli played in the game: 1 win, 8 losses.
Last year the NYG record in games Eli doesn't take a snap: 5 wins, 3 losses.
Let thoses stats simmer for a while and smell the aroma of failure. (Also before Eli was put in the Giants were not doing that bad.)

Eli Manning's offensive tools:
Plaxico Burress & Amani Toomer at WR
Jeremy Shockey at TE
Tiki Barbar at RB
Better O-line than Texans

I would say Eli Manning is in a slightly better situation.

Eli may be a decent player in this league but as of right now he has proved nothing.
Eli playing in the NFC is also a "slightly" better situation
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Old 09-26-2005   #29
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Carr will be better than Eli when the next GM actually brings in good O-linemen, and lets Bradford go.
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Old 09-26-2005   #30
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its irrelevant....eli would have weaseled his way out of being drafted by us anyway...does character count for nothing?
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Old 09-26-2005   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swtbound07
its irrelevant....eli would have weaseled his way out of being drafted by us anyway...does character count for nothing?
Good point! Based on character, Carr does circles around Manning.

I'm sorry (not really ), but Manning's little "excuse" about punking the NFL draft system was weasel. Can you imagine the chaos that would ensure if even half of the college players acted in that manner? Then last night's game had a whole new set of excuses about it, and they were weaker than ever. I'm glad the Giants lost because of it, too.
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Old 09-26-2005   #32
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It would be hard to deal with Eli's people but if we drafted him and traded him for alot of picks and went 12-4 I'd still do it .
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Old 09-26-2005   #33
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Eli...
Looks like Eli switched bodies with Payton in the offseason. Isn't Eli ahead of his brother in several QB categories this year? He's looking good.
Carr .. no comment.
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Old 09-26-2005   #34
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I think they said last night he's a little bit behind in completion %, but has a slight edge in yards and is leading him in td/int ratio 5/2 to 2/2. I was impressed by Eli's composure and awareness last night. His protection was better but he also showed much better footwork and a better feel for pressure than I've ever seen from Carr. He just tip toes around the pocket and then delivers the ball. David has gotten into the habit of taking off to the right and negating half the field.
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Old 09-26-2005   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk75
..............

David Carr is better then Eli Manning. He is better then most of these guys with good time and good coaching.
Doesn't Eli have a running game? What is that guys name........ O, Tikki Barber!
..........are you kidding me???? ELI just finished his 6th game as a pro.....................Carr in four yrs has never looked that good...................Carr is very disappointing.............i think he has to answer the bell........................he has gotten a huge pass because of the OL and the expansion team tag.............Four yrs in the honeymoon has finally ended.....................and it is justified. And ELI does not have stud WR like Johnson either.............Carr has AJ and DD.............not chop liver................he is just regressed badly ..............
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Old 09-26-2005   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo59
..........are you kidding me???? ELI just finished his 6th game as a pro.....................Carr in four yrs has never looked that good...................Carr is very disappointing.............i think he has to answer the bell........................he has gotten a huge pass because of the OL and the expansion team tag.............Four yrs in the honeymoon has finally ended.....................and it is justified. And ELI does not have stud WR like Johnson either.............Carr has AJ and DD.............not chop liver................he is just regressed badly ..............
At least are QB doesnt about the team he is playing for.
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Old 09-26-2005   #37
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I think Carr is extremely talented. You all just need an O line. I'm not sold on Eli yet and the way he punked out the Chargers made me lose all respect for him.
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Old 09-26-2005   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo59
..........are you kidding me???? ELI just finished his 6th game as a pro.....................Carr in four yrs has never looked that good...................Carr is very disappointing.............i think he has to answer the bell........................he has gotten a huge pass because of the OL and the expansion team tag.............Four yrs in the honeymoon has finally ended.....................and it is justified. And ELI does not have stud WR like Johnson either.............Carr has AJ and DD.............not chop liver................he is just regressed badly ..............

Peyton Manning couldn't suceed with Houston's O line.
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Old 09-27-2005   #39
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My God, did all of you see how much time EManning had to look at his recievers and get the ball(at least try) to them. It was pathetic, 6 sometimes 7 seconds. I thought, man if Carr had that much time to see AJ or time to look at a secondary reciever, his stats would be up there!

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Old 09-27-2005   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo59
..........are you kidding me???? ELI just finished his 6th game as a pro.....................Carr in four yrs has never looked that good...................Carr is very disappointing.............i think he has to answer the bell........................he has gotten a huge pass because of the OL and the expansion team tag.............Four yrs in the honeymoon has finally ended.....................and it is justified. And ELI does not have stud WR like Johnson either.............Carr has AJ and DD.............not chop liver................he is just regressed badly ..............
In the regular season Eli Manning has started 10 games and that was his 12th game over all. Not sure where you are pulling stats from.
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493004

Eli didn't play that great on sunday. TWICE he almost threw interceptions for TOUCHDOWNS. One time the corner missed an easy pick that was meant for Plaxico but was thrown right the the corner. The other time the corner did pick it off and run it back for the Touchdown but it was called back because of a tick tack foul. His play was not great. He is still making HUGE mistakes.

Carr certainly has issues but Carr unlike Eli has been put in the situation to fail from the beginning.....worst O-line in history, expansion team, etc.
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