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Old 09-20-2005   #21
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Originally Posted by dalemurphy
So, according to the way you evaluate talent, I guess that Darrell Jackson is a better WR than Andre Johnson. After all, Darrell Jackson had more yards, catches and TDs than Andre did... Forget the fact that he dropped 13 passes and his comp % was pathetic.

Or, I suppose Eddie Kennison is a better WR than Lynn Swann. Haywood Jeffries- that was one great WR. Deion Branch must suck. Apparently Chris Chambers is only an average WR. After all, he only averages 800 yards and 7 TDs a year.

You have to be kidding me... I didnt say any of this, wtf are you talking about?

Who said anything about Chris Chambers? or Darell Jackson? Lynn Swann? I didnt know we were living in the past. Deion Branch?

All of those guys are much better than Gaffney, what is you point?
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Old 09-20-2005   #22
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see I hate this too, everyone posts these useless stats about how he was 6th in the league in converting 3rd downs.... seriously, does that make him a good player? Does it make up for his total lack of even mediocre production thus far?
At least we are basing our assertion on something tangible. Your assertions that he is less than mediocre totally ignores the situation he's been put in. If the ball is not thrown his way, how much blame does he deserve?

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Yall bring up the same generic arguement every time, with useless stats. Did I say he cant catch? NO! Did I say Armstrong was better than him? NO!
Dont put words in my mouth or act so smug about Gaff because hes dropped 2 out of 125.
I don't believe I put words in your mouth at all, so I'll assume that's intended for another target. The statistic regarding the drops is just another metric of Gaffney's talent. Ignore it if you wish, but it does not go away. Two drops out of 125 touches is a great ratio and far better than AJ or Bradford.

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Then you go off about his ypc last year, did you happen to look at what it was the previous 2 years? 11.8. once again, amazing.
First of all, I posted last year's stats in response to the original poster who claimed that Gaffney has not improved and in fact has gotten worse. I neglected to post the 2002-2003 stats to bolster my case. Thank you for pointing out the improvement from '02/'03 to '04.

Again -- I am not necessarily high on Gaffney, or Armstrong, or one versus the other, but to dismiss Gaffney as a bust is blatantly overlooking facts that directly dispute your claims.
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Old 09-20-2005   #23
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Originally Posted by eriadoc
At least we are basing our assertion on something tangible. Your assertions that he is less than mediocre totally ignores the situation he's been put in. If the ball is not thrown his way, how much blame does he deserve?



I don't believe I put words in your mouth at all, so I'll assume that's intended for another target. The statistic regarding the drops is just another metric of Gaffney's talent. Ignore it if you wish, but it does not go away. Two drops out of 125 touches is a great ratio and far better than AJ or Bradford.



First of all, I posted last year's stats in response to the original poster who claimed that Gaffney has not improved and in fact has gotten worse. I neglected to post the 2002-2003 stats to bolster my case. Thank you for pointing out the improvement from '02/'03 to '04.

Again -- I am not necessarily high on Gaffney, or Armstrong, or one versus the other, but to dismiss Gaffney as a bust is blatantly overlooking facts that directly dispute your claims.

so the facts that prove he isnt a bust are that he converts 3rd downs well and doesnt drop many passes?

thats it?

whatever happened to having to produce?
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Old 09-20-2005   #24
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Originally Posted by stevo3883
so the facts that prove he isnt a bust are that he converts 3rd downs well and doesnt drop many passes?

thats it?

whatever happened to having to produce?
OMG are you serious? How is a receiver supposed to produce if he isnt thrown the ball???? Answer me that one question before you go on another rant...
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Old 09-20-2005   #25
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OMG are you serious? How is a receiver supposed to produce if he isnt thrown the ball???? Answer me that one question before you go on another rant...
he is thrown the ball... Remember the pass that hit him in the arm a week ago?

Must have been Carr's fault right?

People just assume Carr cant get him the ball, and while some of that may be true, Gaffney isnt open most of the time, no one was. you going to disagree with Carr saying no one was open thats fine, but dont act like Gaffney is Meshawn and u just need to "get him the d@mn ball"
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Old 09-20-2005   #26
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So are you baseing the past 3+ seasons on one busted play? I agree that was inexcusable, but even the great receivers take plays off. Again no excuse but you get where Im coming from. And if your saying that nobody was open than we should cut Johnson and Armstrong also?
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Old 09-20-2005   #27
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So are you baseing the past 3+ seasons on one busted play? I agree that was inexcusable, but even the great receivers take plays off. Again no excuse but you get where Im coming from. And if your saying that nobody was open than we should cut Johnson and Armstrong also?
no... Did I say we should cut Gaffney?

All I'm saying is that the guy was the 33rd pick in the draft and has been a severe disappointment, if not a bust.
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Old 09-20-2005   #28
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Then read those stats that you love to hate, that Vinny so kindly posted for the 800th time and you will see why Gaffney has been a disappointment.
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Old 09-20-2005   #29
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OK, SteveO, I'll pose a few questions to you. How do you measure production? If a WR goes out on the field for one play the entire game (coach's call), runs the correct route, and catches the prescribed pass, is he deemed productive? Or are you only concerned with end numbers? If a player goes out for 750 plays and makes 75 catches on 135 target opportunities, is he productive? What if he makes each of those catches for 5.0 yards per catch? 15.0 YPC? I want to know your method of defining "production".
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Old 09-20-2005   #30
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Originally Posted by eriadoc
OK, SteveO, I'll pose a few questions to you. How do you measure production? If a WR goes out on the field for one play the entire game (coach's call), runs the correct route, and catches the prescribed pass, is he deemed productive? Or are you only concerned with end numbers? If a player goes out for 750 plays and makes 75 catches on 135 target opportunities, is he productive? What if he makes each of those catches for 5.0 yards per catch? 15.0 YPC? I want to know your method of defining "production".

hmm... I guess Ill just give up. Its pretty sad how everyone is totally okay having a guy that was picked 33rd be a #3 receiver. Guys like Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Randle El, Deion Branch, Chris Chambers, Jerry Porter, Laverneus Coles, Darell Jackson were all picked later than Gaffney. But hey, I guess Im just delusional and Gaffney really is as good as they are.
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Old 09-20-2005   #31
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To be honest, almost every one of those receivers you named is better than AJ, if you just look at stats. I'll grant you that the slot opposite AJ has not been as productive as is necessary, but I don't think anyone can effectively argue that it's Gaffney. It's a scheme issue. As far as being a bust relative to where he was picked, Gaffney had no control over where he was picked or more importantly, by whom he was picked. If Gaffney had been on most other NFL teams, I fully believe he's shown production equivalent to what most #2 guys on an average offense put up in a season. Most teams do not have two 1000-yard receivers and they make do just fine. So I am not saying that Gaffney is all that great, but I am saying he's nowhere near as bad as you and the original poster make him out to be, nor is he deserving of the grief that fans seem to dish out. It won't hurt my feelings one bit if Mathis, Armstrong, Diet Pepsi machine, or whoever comes along and supplants Gaffney with some stellar numbers. But until this offense fixes what's wrong, it's not really going to happen. And if they do fix it, Gaffney's good enough to post the numbers one would expect froma number 2 WR. Whether the team should have taken a #2-caliber WR that early in the draft is a different discussion, but I think many on here are already of the belief that our team sucks at evaluating or developing talent, or both.
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Old 09-20-2005   #32
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Originally Posted by stevo3883
hmm... I guess Ill just give up. Its pretty sad how everyone is totally okay having a guy that was picked 33rd be a #3 receiver. Guys like Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Randle El, Deion Branch, Chris Chambers, Jerry Porter, Laverneus Coles, Darell Jackson were all picked later than Gaffney. But hey, I guess Im just delusional and Gaffney really is as good as they are.
Last time I checked none of those players were in the weak 2002 draft. Pull it up sometimes and see for yourself. You can't just manufacture talent out of air. The only wr picked that year after Gaffney that has outproduced him is Deion Branch. Sometimes you just have to pick BPA when you are an expansion team in need of a WR. That said, Gaffney isn't our problem in the slot. He's proven to be a solid slot guy.
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