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Old 09-20-2005   #1
Gilly
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Default why isnt Armstrong on the field more?

It seems to me that he is the only one willing to actually catch the ball when david throws it to him. He runs good routes and has good hands. With AJ getting triple coverage every freaking play we NEED somebody to step up and make a play. I think Armstrong is the guy that can do this.

And another thing, Why hasn't Gaf been cut yet? His play has been pathetic the last three years, and is getting progressively worse.

It is wake up time in houston, and I personally hold CC responcible for the lack of decent personel simply because it is his job to provide the best players for their respective positions. Zero offensive help this offseason is going to prove to be a fatal mistake.
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Old 09-20-2005   #2
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Because:

a) he wasn't a high draft pick
b) he doesn't make millions per year


I'm hoping that will change to putting the best talent on the field and holding those players accountable for their play.
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Old 09-20-2005   #3
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All he does is catches the ball...
:brickwall
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Old 09-20-2005   #4
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Originally Posted by SteelBlueToro
All he does is catches the ball...
:brickwall
...like he's using stick'um.

He's our best choice at #2 receiver.
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Old 09-20-2005   #5
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And that is a bad thing? nobody else will.
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Old 09-20-2005   #6
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Capers was asked this on his show yesterday and he said the reason is because Armstrong is more of a possession WR and Bradford is more of a burner WR but he said he was going to try to work Armstrong into the offense more as long as he keeps making plays...
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Old 09-20-2005   #7
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Originally Posted by texan279
Capers was asked this on his show yesterday and he said the reason is because Armstrong is more of a possession WR and Bradford is more of a burner WR but he said he was going to try to work Armstrong into the offense more as long as he keeps making plays...
I think I'd rather have a possesion receiver creating first downs than a burner threatening something that doesn't happen. Especially when that burner isn't making the other receivers' jobs easier by his mere presence on the field.
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Old 09-20-2005   #8
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Gaff is solid and he is productive when he gets looks. I've posted many things about this but I don't like to fight it anymore. Armstrong and Gaffney will very likely both see more looks under Pendry since I think he will not over think this offense like Palmer used to.
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Old 09-20-2005   #9
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And another thing, Why hasn't Gaf been cut yet? His play has been pathetic the last three years, and is getting progressively worse.
Really? Do you have any data to back up this claim? Or are you pulling it directly from your posterior? Here's some data that might interest you --

2004

AJ - 138 targets, 79 catches (57.25%), 14.5 Yds./catch, 53 1st downs
Bradford - 54 targets, 27 catches (50%), 14.8 Yds./catch, 20 1st downs
Gaffney - 68 targets, 41 catches (60.29%), 15.4 Yds./catch, 34 1st downs

Isn't Bradford (or maybe AJ) supposed to be our deep threat? Yet Gaffney averaged 15.4 YPC, better than either of them. But wait, Gaffney had a better 1st-down-to-catch ratio than either of them as well, so he's clearly our "move the chains"-type possession receiver, right? I'm too lazy to go look up stats for drops, but I'd be willing to wager that Gaffney has a much lower percentage of drops as well.

On second thought, if we're to really achieve our goal of obtaining the number one overall pick in the upcoming draft, then yes, we should cut Gaffney.

Link to stats -- http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo...s/2004/texans/
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Old 09-20-2005   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc
Really? Do you have any data to back up this claim? Or are you pulling it directly from your posterior? Here's some data that might interest you --

2004

AJ - 138 targets, 79 catches (57.25%), 14.5 Yds./catch, 53 1st downs
Bradford - 54 targets, 27 catches (50%), 14.8 Yds./catch, 20 1st downs
Gaffney - 68 targets, 41 catches (60.29%), 15.4 Yds./catch, 34 1st downs

Isn't Bradford (or maybe AJ) supposed to be our deep threat? Yet Gaffney averaged 15.4 YPC, better than either of them. But wait, Gaffney had a better 1st-down-to-catch ratio than either of them as well, so he's clearly our "move the chains"-type possession receiver, right? I'm too lazy to go look up stats for drops, but I'd be willing to wager that Gaffney has a much lower percentage of drops as well.

On second thought, if we're to really achieve our goal of obtaining the number one overall pick in the upcoming draft, then yes, we should cut Gaffney.

Link to stats -- http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo...s/2004/texans/

lol dude, how about the fact that hes in his 4th year as the 33rd pick and he has something like 1500 total yards receiving?

How about the fact that guys like Quincy Morgan and Antonio Bryant, both considered major busts, have serverely outperformed him.



You dont spend the 33rd pick on a guy you expect 500 yards and 1 TD from. Hes been a major disappointment, tons of #1's come in the late 1st early second, and he can barely hold onto his slot job.

He cant create seperation, hes really small, hes pretty slow. So in essence hes a slow small posession receiver.



I still dont get why people are so high on a guy like this. He hasnt produced anything yet. If he had been a late 3rd or 4th rounder I might agree hes ok, but he was basically a 1st rounder, and he has performed like a 5th.
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Old 09-20-2005   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texan279
Capers was asked this on his show yesterday and he said the reason is because Armstrong is more of a possession WR and Bradford is more of a burner WR but he said he was going to try to work Armstrong into the offense more as long as he keeps making plays...
I heard that too. But isn't a "burner" someone your opponent fears? Who in the world is scared of Corey Bradford?

Armstrong has hands. Right now, the only one that seems to. He needs to be on the field as the #2. Man, I miss Sloan Thomas, too. He at least busted his tail.
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Old 09-20-2005   #12
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Originally Posted by stevo3883
He cant create seperation, hes really small, hes pretty slow. So in essence hes a slow small posession receiver.

I still dont get why people are so high on a guy like this. He hasnt produced anything yet. If he had been a late 3rd or 4th rounder I might agree hes ok, but he was basically a 1st rounder, and he has performed like a 5th.
Some of this stuff is just pretty ignorant. I guess Gaffney is the smallest 6'1" 205 pound guy I have ever seen. Gaffney was 6th in the NFL in converting 3rd downs into first downs last year...ahead of a ton of quality receivers (more than 6 of them in the NFL). Carr threw to Gaffney 21 times on third down in 2004 and completed each pass for a first down...every single one of them. Some of Gaffney's lack of production comes out of the fact that Carr isn't one of the better QB's at scanning the field and reading defenses and will look to his primary too long and just dump the ball off to Dom. If you really break down Carr's passes over the 4 years he has always had trouble identifying his mid-read options. His rookie year was all Bradford (first read) and Billy Miller (last read - safety valve at that time). Not much in the middle then either.

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Last season, Gaffney finished sixth in the league for converting 82.9 percent of his receptions into first downs.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory...texans/3338630
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
In the last two years Gaffney has dropped 2 of 125 balls directed toward him--about 1.8%. In the same time period Randy Moss has dropped 13 of 257--about 5%. I guess that either makes Moss Sir Dropsalot or makes Gaffney Spiderman--either way, Gaffney's hands are not an issue.
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Originally Posted by fiddy
Texans QBs have attempted 905 passes over the last 2 years. (If I am doing my math right) That means that Gaff gets a pass his way only once every about 7.4th pass. That is a pitiful ratio.
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Old 09-20-2005   #13
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Vinny, Ill bet you get tired of posting the same argument for Gaf, you should just copy that and post it everytime somebody else thinks that Gaffney should be catching balls that arent thrown at him. Jabar Gaffney is the least of this teams worries right now, yet he gets a ton of criticism on this board, I dont get it.
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Old 09-20-2005   #14
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Now he is 'too small'. It's just amazing what I read here sometimes.
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Old 09-20-2005   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo3883
lol dude, how about the fact that hes in his 4th year as the 33rd pick and he has something like 1500 total yards receiving?

How about the fact that guys like Quincy Morgan and Antonio Bryant, both considered major busts, have serverely outperformed him.



You dont spend the 33rd pick on a guy you expect 500 yards and 1 TD from. Hes been a major disappointment, tons of #1's come in the late 1st early second, and he can barely hold onto his slot job.

He cant create seperation, hes really small, hes pretty slow. So in essence hes a slow small posession receiver.



I still dont get why people are so high on a guy like this. He hasnt produced anything yet. If he had been a late 3rd or 4th rounder I might agree hes ok, but he was basically a 1st rounder, and he has performed like a 5th.

Maybe you have the dilusion he hasn't produced because Bradford is on the field dropping balls all the time instead of Gaf who can catch, and be aware enough to run his route past the 1st down marker. Nah that couldn't possibly be it. Bench Bradford for a game and Start Gaf and see what happens.
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Old 09-20-2005   #16
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lol dude, how about the fact that hes in his 4th year as the 33rd pick and he has something like 1500 total yards receiving?

How about the fact that guys like Quincy Morgan and Antonio Bryant, both considered major busts, have serverely outperformed him.
See, wide receivers are in sort of a neat position in that they have to receive the ball. That implies that someone (Carr) has to actually identify that there's someone on the field besides AJ and DD. When Carr has bothered to include Gaffney in his reads, the results have been positive. Gaffney has good metrics - the only stat you can say he's underperformed in is targets, and he can't control that too much.

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You dont spend the 33rd pick on a guy you expect 500 yards and 1 TD from. Hes been a major disappointment, tons of #1's come in the late 1st early second, and he can barely hold onto his slot job.

He cant create seperation, hes really small, hes pretty slow. So in essence hes a slow small posession receiver.
Hmm, you're really killing your credibility here, but I'll take it easy on you since Vinny pointed out your misconceptions already. Armstrong and Gaffney are very similar in terms of speed and hands. The only difference really is the fact that they put Armstrong in for situations that they expect to throw the ball to him. As for your assertion on their stats, Gaffney has gotten about 460 yards a year, with more TDs than that, on far fewer attempts than either Bradford or AJ. Imagine what he could do if he had 100 targets a year. How about 60 catches for 900 yards? That's about what most #2 WR do on a team, maybe more. The TDs are a product of the system, not the receivers, else AJ would have more than a paltry 6 TDs last year.

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I still dont get why people are so high on a guy like this. He hasnt produced anything yet. If he had been a late 3rd or 4th rounder I might agree hes ok, but he was basically a 1st rounder, and he has performed like a 5th.
I don't think people are necessarily high on Gaffney, but they are savvy enough to realize that the lack of production from the #2 WR stem from other issues. Gaffney has proven that, when given the targets, he can produce, and has produced better than a 5th round pick, most of whom don't make professional rosters. Yet the coaches keep putting Bradford in there in an effort to stretch the field. How about we go deep with AJ and Mathis and use Gaffney for what he is best suited?
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Old 09-20-2005   #17
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I think you should play Armstrong more. He’s got good size, 4.5 type speed, and is a very fluid athlete. He can use his athleticism to make plays that you wouldn’t expect him to make. He caught passes for over 1000 yards with us (the CFL’s Saskatchewan Roughriders) one year so he’s used to the ball coming his way a lot too.

(I also heard that you had Reggie Swinton on your roster this spring. As some further CFL trivia for you, he also had a short stay in the CFL, as a return specialist with the Winnipeg Blue Bombers. Chris Palmer also coached for a year in the CFL, and a candidate as your new OL coach, Tony Martino, coached a number of years in the CFL.)
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Old 09-20-2005   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc
See, wide receivers are in sort of a neat position in that they have to receive the ball. That implies that someone (Carr) has to actually identify that there's someone on the field besides AJ and DD. When Carr has bothered to include Gaffney in his reads, the results have been positive. Gaffney has good metrics - the only stat you can say he's underperformed in is targets, and he can't control that too much.



Hmm, you're really killing your credibility here, but I'll take it easy on you since Vinny pointed out your misconceptions already. Armstrong and Gaffney are very similar in terms of speed and hands. The only difference really is the fact that they put Armstrong in for situations that they expect to throw the ball to him. As for your assertion on their stats, Gaffney has gotten about 460 yards a year, with more TDs than that, on far fewer attempts than either Bradford or AJ. Imagine what he could do if he had 100 targets a year. How about 60 catches for 900 yards? That's about what most #2 WR do on a team, maybe more. The TDs are a product of the system, not the receivers, else AJ would have more than a paltry 6 TDs last year.



I don't think people are necessarily high on Gaffney, but they are savvy enough to realize that the lack of production from the #2 WR stem from other issues. Gaffney has proven that, when given the targets, he can produce, and has produced better than a 5th round pick, most of whom don't make professional rosters. Yet the coaches keep putting Bradford in there in an effort to stretch the field. How about we go deep with AJ and Mathis and use Gaffney for what he is best suited?
see I hate this too, everyone posts these useless stats about how he was 6th in the league in converting 3rd downs.... seriously, does that make him a good player? Does it make up for his total lack of even mediocre production thus far?

Yall bring up the same generic arguement every time, with useless stats. Did I say he cant catch? NO! Did I say Armstrong was better than him? NO!

Dont put words in my mouth or act so smug about Gaff because hes dropped 2 out of 125.

The object of being a receiver is to catch balls and score touchdowns. Or maybe draw coverage off of another receiver. He does none of these. An average of 1.33 TD's per year, amazing.

And saying "if he got the ball 500 times hed have 10,000 yards" is so ridiculous. He has what he has. Go ahead and blame Carr, but if Gaffney was half as good as you think he would warrant a look even from someone u perceive as ****** as Carr. Surely it cant be his lack of ability to get open, it must be Carr!

Then you go off about his ypc last year, did you happen to look at what it was the previous 2 years? 11.8. once again, amazing.


You seem to think Im saying he sucks, but if you actually read what I said instead of just assuming I was an ***** hater you'd see most of it is true. Hes an alright #3, stop treating him like our secret weapon that needs to be utilized so we can be unstoppable.

For where he was drafted, hes been a major bust. just look at his stats compared to Quincy Morgan, a guy with a worse qb than Carr.



Im sorry, it just gets on my nerves when people play up a guy to be much better than he is. But yet im the one thats perceived as stupid because I doubt a guy that has done nothing will all of a sudden start being worth half as much as he cost.
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Old 09-20-2005   #19
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Thats exactly was I was saying Sunday, err... more like screaming!
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Old 09-20-2005   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo3883
see I hate this too, everyone posts these useless stats about how he was 6th in the league in converting 3rd downs.... seriously, does that make him a good player? Does it make up for his total lack of even mediocre production thus far?

Yall bring up the same generic arguement every time, with useless stats. Did I say he cant catch? NO! Did I say Armstrong was better than him? NO!

Dont put words in my mouth or act so smug about Gaff because hes dropped 2 out of 125.

The object of being a receiver is to catch balls and score touchdowns. Or maybe draw coverage off of another receiver. He does none of these. An average of 1.33 TD's per year, amazing.

And saying "if he got the ball 500 times hed have 10,000 yards" is so ridiculous. He has what he has. Go ahead and blame Carr, but if Gaffney was half as good as you think he would warrant a look even from someone u perceive as ****** as Carr. Surely it cant be his lack of ability to get open, it must be Carr!

Then you go off about his ypc last year, did you happen to look at what it was the previous 2 years? 11.8. once again, amazing.


You seem to think Im saying he sucks, but if you actually read what I said instead of just assuming I was an ***** hater you'd see most of it is true. Hes an alright #3, stop treating him like our secret weapon that needs to be utilized so we can be unstoppable.

For where he was drafted, hes been a major bust. just look at his stats compared to Quincy Morgan, a guy with a worse qb than Carr.



Im sorry, it just gets on my nerves when people play up a guy to be much better than he is. But yet im the one thats perceived as stupid because I doubt a guy that has done nothing will all of a sudden start being worth half as much as he cost.
So, according to the way you evaluate talent, I guess that Darrell Jackson is a better WR than Andre Johnson. After all, Darrell Jackson had more yards, catches and TDs than Andre did... Forget the fact that he dropped 13 passes and his comp % was pathetic.

Or, I suppose Eddie Kennison is a better WR than Lynn Swann. Haywood Jeffries- that was one great WR. Deion Branch must suck. Apparently Chris Chambers is only an average WR. After all, he only averages 800 yards and 7 TDs a year.
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