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Old 09-20-2005   #1
Ibar_Harry
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Default What can the Texans learn from the Dallas Game!

Boy will I take heat on this one, but I think it is really appropriate. Dallas really played extremely well defensively for about 58 minutes but offensively they let Washington stay close. The end result was a heart wrenching defeat when the other team's coach (Gibbs) connected on 4th downs. Two plays were all that Washington needed. How many times have we seen this with the Texans? Our conservative minded coaching staff does not understand that we are always playing on the knifes edge. One miscue and your done and how many times have we seen that happen? We need to get a separation between us and the other team if we are going to be successful. You can win some close ones, but not all the time. Our defense is young and it is going to make mistakes. The defense has to make stops to give our offense a chance to connect. There are only a few times in each NFL contest where it all comes together and the result is a score of some kind. For the most part teams jocky back and forth sparing trying to get an advantage on the other team. We don't do that and that's why we have such a hard time wining games. Defense is very important, but so is offense. You have to have a healthy balance or an exceptional defense. We do not have an exceptional defense.

Why can Dallas and others develop and draft an O-line at the same time we are, but we say no one is or was available? Why do other teams understand that you have to spread the other team out once in a while? I will tell you Jerry Jones was you know what tonight. I bet someone hears about it. Where is Mr. McNair? Dallas has even developed a D-line while we couldn't. You really have to think about what we are doing and how we are doing it. As fans you should all go look at that game as it is an example of how easy it is to loose a game and why the Texans look so bad. I'm not a Dallas fan. I'm just saying you can look at what they have an have not done and contrast it to what we have or have not done. Its quite frankly shocking and embarrassing. But until Mr. McNair decides to take the bull by the horns nothing is going to happen. As they say, the ball is NOW IN HIS COURT. There is no EXCUSE for not knowing their are huge problems. Its up to HIM to initiate the FIX. As a FAN I hope he does do that. Houston FANS are owed that much and so our the PLAYERS.
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Old 09-20-2005   #2
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Originally Posted by caddy
Fire the Cowboys... This is the only answere I ever see on
this board.
Again. go look at the game and think what they have done given they started their revamp a year after us and were in total disarray. Granted they were no starting from scratch, but they had to rebuild a lot of the same positions that we had to. They now have a product and we don't. Gives one pause for thought.
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Old 09-20-2005   #3
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
Again. go look at the game and think what they have done given they started their revamp a year after us and were in total disarray. Granted they were no starting from scratch, but they had to rebuild a lot of the same positions that we had to. They now have a product and we don't. Gives one pause for thought.
Yeah, they went out and got a veteran QB who can make some plays. I've been one to pause for thought too. Parcels isn't as smart as Capers and staff. They won't just give the QB job to a rookie without having someone to push him or beat him out. They actually made Henson compete for his playing time.
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Old 09-20-2005   #4
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
Why can Dallas and others develop and draft an O-line at the same time we are, but we say no one is or was available?
The key word here is develop. Other teams can develop the players they end up with - ours never seem to improve; they stay at a constant level year after year.

Therefore, I think it's the coaching staff.
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Old 09-20-2005   #5
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I was *at* this game last night, and it was nice to see a team throw on first down more than twice. It was nice not to see run-run-pass-punt, run-run-pass-punt.

We've had four freakin' years to develop an offensive line, and as of now, we still don't have one that can protect our quarterback.

Carr is going to be ruined mentally (see: Mirer, Rick) if we don't stop this right now and protect his skittish happy-footed self.

End of rant.
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Old 09-20-2005   #6
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Originally Posted by gcolby
I was *at* this game last night, and it was nice to see a team throw on first down more than twice. It was nice not to see run-run-pass-punt, run-run-pass-punt.
Nice rant...not accurate, but it sounds good.
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Old 09-20-2005   #7
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I had a couple of (drunk?) fans in front of me at the game Sunday. They booed every running play (any down), unless we gained over 5 yards - then they looked around and said "see, that's what we're talking about". I guess we should only run when our crystal ball shows a positive result.

This preconceived notion of run, run, pass, punt is hard to kill. Even those darn facts that have been posted showing more first down passing plays can't sway the cognoscenti.
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Old 09-20-2005   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Nice rant...not accurate, but it sounds good.
Our first two series both had run-run-pass sequences on them (for 1st-2nd-3-rd downs), and were so predictable (IMO) that they allowed the defense to shut us down early, and we had no early offensive momentum. We were into the second quarter before we got our third 1st down, and by then we were down 10-0, trying to play catch-up and get our offense humming. It's hard to do that when you're under that kind of pressure, and I maintain that with a little more variety, we would not have been shut down so early.
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Old 09-20-2005   #9
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Originally Posted by Runner
I had a couple of (drunk?) fans in front of me at the game Sunday. They booed every running play (any down), unless we gained over 5 yards - then they looked around and said "see, that's what we're talking about". I guess we should only run when our crystal ball shows a positive result.

This preconceived notion of run, run, pass, punt is hard to kill. Even those darn facts that have been posted showing more first down passing plays can't sway the cognoscenti.

I hardly think congoscenti is an appropriate word to describe a "couple of (drunk?) fans" at a Texans game.
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Old 09-20-2005   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner
This preconceived notion of run, run, pass, punt is hard to kill. Even those darn facts that have been posted showing more first down passing plays can't sway the cognoscenti.
Point taken, but how many of those passing 1st downs happened because we got so far behind that we had to reply on our passing game to catch up?

Sigh... It was just a frustrating day. Sometimes those drunk guys DO make sense. I still say we need an offensive line.
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Old 09-20-2005   #11
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What you can learn from is this: When you have a really good scouting department, it pays off.

Demarcus Ware, Marcus Spears and Chris Canty are going to outstanding players for a long time.
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Old 09-20-2005   #12
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There's also been a different approach between the two teams. After Dallas hired Parcells, it adopted a "win now" approach.

Houston's objective has been to slowly develop through the draft, rather than signing free agents.

I have no qualms about Houston's approach, because if the drafting is good, it can be successful over time.

However, at this point it appears the drafting has not been that good, outside of the first round picks (other than Babin) and finding DD in the fourth round. Of course, that's with the benefit of hindsight.

I fault Casserly for not improving the O-line and getting a second receiver, whether through the draft or otherwise. These deficiencies don't come as a surprise to anyone who's been paying attention.

What is worrisome is that Carr is now playing horribly, and I'm fearful that he may be damaged beyond repair if he can't turn it around soon. I was struck by the difference between the way he played the last two games versus the way Brunell played last night. Against Dallas, Brunell was sacked and pressured mercilessly, but he never lost his composure, kept looking downfield and made some fantastic plays. That's the way it's supposed to be done, though as a Cowboys fan, it was painful to watch.
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Old 09-20-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Yeah, they went out and got a veteran QB who can make some plays. I've been one to pause for thought too. Parcels isn't as smart as Capers and staff. They won't just give the QB job to a rookie without having someone to push him or beat him out. They actually made Henson compete for his playing time.
I have always questioned the logic of taking a rookie QB and putting him in a situation with an unproven team. It seems to me a recipe for disaster. We had absolutely no idea what kind of OL would take the field, and we are starting a rookie at QB?!

It's almost like DC made a good marketing tool, and that was the primary influence of this decision. Because from a football analysis standpoint, it is completely illogical. Even with existing teams, the debate of starting or benching rookie QBs rages. But with a completely new expansion franchise, it seems that the decision would be a no brainer.

Even picking a QB as your no. 1 draft pick from the beginning, they should have benched him for a year or two for several reasons. Learn the system with clipboard, let us build a team that can protect the QB and grow. The way it was done, though, seems completely bassackwards.

This isn't 20/20 hindsight, either, as I've always questioned the logic behind starting DC from year one.
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Old 09-20-2005   #14
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Capers started out in Carolina with a rookie QB (Kerry Collins) and was in the NFC Championship game 2 years later. Not saying that validates their approach but it wouldn't surprise me if that bit of history played a little part in their thinking.

If you make it big early, great...you'll have several years to build on it. If not, well then you still have a relatively young QB that you can build around.

And remember, after the expansion draft, they thought they were set with bookend OTs in Boselli and Ryan Young.
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Old 09-20-2005   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
Again. go look at the game and think what they have done given they started their revamp a year after us and were in total disarray. Granted they were no starting from scratch, but they had to rebuild a lot of the same positions that we had to. They now have a product and we don't. Gives one pause for thought.

Just as a side note. there are only 7 Cowboys on the 53 man Roster, that were Cowboys before Bill Parcells came to Dallas.


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Old 09-20-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
What you can learn from is this: When you have a really good scouting department, it pays off.

Demarcus Ware, Marcus Spears and Chris Canty are going to outstanding players for a long time.
Yes, and Bill isn't afraid of trying vets to try and make things happen over there.
As far as what we can learn?... I think that we don't have to be intimidated by a team with talent & options. With all the players you can think of; Julius Jones, A-Train, Bledsoe, Keyshawn, Aaron Glenn, Price, Crayton, Ellis, Glover, Nguyen, Demarcus Ware, Newman, Canty, Spears, Fujita, and Roy Williams. They sound like a freakin Fantasy Draft team, but they still lost. Even though Washington had a hard time at first they pulled it off. So if our D holds a little and the offense stalls out we should still be able to get one in. Yeah Buffalo and Pitt have good D or a good pass rush, but if we can figure out a way to move up the field we should be alright for our later games, starting with Cincinnati.
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Old 09-20-2005   #17
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Default wait a minute...

Don't the Cowboys have a message board?
GET THAT JUNK OUTTA HERE!
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Old 09-20-2005   #18
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Originally Posted by Double Barrel
I have always questioned the logic of taking a rookie QB and putting him in a situation with an unproven team. It seems to me a recipe for disaster. We had absolutely no idea what kind of OL would take the field, and we are starting a rookie at QB?!
It's almost like DC made a good marketing tool, and that was the primary influence of this decision. Because from a football analysis standpoint, it is completely illogical. Even with existing teams, the debate of starting or benching rookie QBs rages. But with a completely new expansion franchise, it seems that the decision would be a no brainer.
Even picking a QB as your no. 1 draft pick from the beginning, they should have benched him for a year or two for several reasons. Learn the system with clipboard, let us build a team that can protect the QB and grow. The way it was done, though, seems completely bassackwards.
This isn't 20/20 hindsight, either, as I've always questioned the logic behind starting DC from year one.
My recollection is that McNair met DC during one of the college All Star games and became slightly enamored with him. Carr was a real gung hoe Christian kid, family man, Euro-American i.e, homogeneous to the primary Houston fan base - just the kind of personification of the franchise McNair was looking for. Initially, don't think they intended to start him but he got off to a good start, one thing led to another, they beat the Cowboys in the inaugural game and Carr was was the teams QB and de man.
Whether all of this was by design or spontaneous - who knows ?
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Old 09-20-2005   #19
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I appreciate that many of you have provided a different picture and insight from the game. The point is that good coaching and drafting can put a team together. Its also a recognition that an old f.... like Gibbs can realize that with 4 minutes to go you might as well go for it. Gibbs gave his players a shot and they will be a lot better team because of it. They now know they can win when it seems like its impossible. That generates a team with heart. We have none of that.

Jerry Jones fired and McNair capitulated. The end result will be a suffering fan base for years to come. I will also say Parcells looked like his mouth was open in disbelief to. It was a game to watch between two old timers who know how to play the game. It was game of counter punching and strategy. May be they didn't have the players they've had in the past, but it was fun to watch people execute fundamentally good football.
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Old 09-20-2005   #20
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I believe this is the closest a thread on this board has come to hitting our QB nail on the head. How many rookie QB's start even on an established team, not to mention an expansion franchise. Can someone post a list of #1 QB picks of expansion franchises that have flourished? Even #1's on exsisting teams. Aikman started as a rookie, but broke a finger and missed half of the season. I still think if you traded places and situations with Carr and Big Ben, the results for both teams would not be all that different than they are now.

I also believe that you have to play this deal out with Carr due to his potential that has not been realized. He has shown to be aweful but has also shown some brillance. Why start over now, how much worse can it get?
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