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Old 09-15-2005   #1
pittbull
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Default Front office Blame???

I for one can say David Carr can play alot better, but frankly I love the guy and believe he will be better with us or without!! The o-line can play better! The Wr's, and so on and so on! But when does it come time to place some blame of the front office staff. O-line was the same since last season, with Riley, a journeyman, being the only change. First pick this season, a DT that had not proven himself until his season year in college, solely to be used as a backup. Last season, a DE from W.Michigan, no speed or athletic ability, making a switch to the 3-4, with Capers "hope" that Babin plays like his former stud, Kevin Greene. No drafting or acquiring of a TRUE #2 target for Carr, whether a sure WR or explosive TE to help free up Johnson. Failing to establish good depth in FA. Failing in the Henson pick, Hollings pick, and scouting department. Folks, the more you look at this team, there is no depth, no creativity, boring to watch, fans can tell what plays are coming, let alone the opposing team. This is the final season for boring Capers! We need a fiery coaching staff, accountability on both sides of the ball, and better scouting! But in the meantime, I'll wait like the rest of us true STEEL BLUE FANS! I have to admit, when the season comes, you just get excited and want to see football, but you would rather pay for a good product! I mean, what do I tell my Steeler fan friends this week coming in.........?
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Old 09-15-2005   #2
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"But when does it come time to place some blame of the front office staff." - Pittbull

Per the message board... it's happening now. At first I thought you were talking about Casserly, but then looked more like Capers and Palmer. Concerning the picks - not every one is gonna be a home run pick, and wasn't Casserly known for some of reaches / diamonds in the rough picks? Overall, I don't think he's made bad decisions, not to say there hasn't been any.

I'm thinking it's just Casserly and Capers really aren't discussing who to go after. They say that they do discuss what type of players are needed and then bounced off our deep scouting staff to see who's out there.... and if that's happening.... someone's missing the boat.
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Old 09-15-2005   #3
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to educate you all on how the process works. Casserly makes the final decisions and Casserly more times than not has reached and missed on his picks with the Texans and with his Previous organization. He did draft Shuler remember. Capers is a good coach, just better suited as a coordinator than head man. Palmer is completely at fault for being our offense and playcalling. The scouting staff is on point and they were the ones that were preaching D. thomas with and some other guys with the picks we gave up for Babin. They wanted D.J. They wanted to get a OL in second instead of Jopporu. The scouting staff is doing a hell of job, but upper management makes the decision and it has been wrong.
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Old 09-15-2005   #4
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Originally Posted by cadahnic
The scouting staff is on point and they were the ones that were preaching D. thomas with and some other guys with the picks we gave up for Babin. They wanted D.J. They wanted to get a OL in second instead of Jopporu. The scouting staff is doing a hell of job, but upper management makes the decision and it has been wrong.
How do you know all this? Do you know somebody on the scouting staff?
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Old 09-15-2005   #5
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Originally Posted by cadahnic
to educate you all on how the process works. Casserly makes the final decisions and Casserly more times than not has reached and missed on his picks with the Texans and with his Previous organization. He did draft Shuler remember. Capers is a good coach, just better suited as a coordinator than head man. Palmer is completely at fault for being our offense and playcalling. The scouting staff is on point and they were the ones that were preaching D. thomas with and some other guys with the picks we gave up for Babin. They wanted D.J. They wanted to get a OL in second instead of Jopporu. The scouting staff is doing a hell of job, but upper management makes the decision and it has been wrong.
As you know there are some different things at play here - operations and finance. Ops, the scouting department, may be doing a bang up job, but Finance is the one that cuts the checks for each player and takes into consideration the fiscal impact for the terms of the contrcat.

We have a lot of meoney already invested in the LB through 2009 - Greenwood, Wong and Babin. Peeks contrct is up this year and we may want to sign him for a longer duration. I can see finance and ops looking at this and saying, "do we want all of our money tied up in 4 LB's through 2009, by taking a rookie LB or do we want to address DL depth since it has been an issue?"

Scouting may be the most overhyped part of sports. Scouting is nothing more than being the first guy to publish their take on a prospect.
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Old 09-15-2005   #6
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Kaiser you do understand that if we make the play for DJ we do not resign wong to a long term deal. Also in all likelyhood we would not have resigned peek. I understand what you are saying from an operations and finance standpoint, but you have the impact of finance and operations misconstrued. Finance and operations work for our GM who is Casserly. They pay and do what he lays out for them that is why I mentioned him. Also Scouting is not nearly as hyped as it should be. There is a reason Baltimore makes more quality picks than it misses on. They have likely the top scouting department in the league. Those guys know more about football than I would venture anyone on this site does. Scouting in any industry is important to the growth and success of any business within that industry. Come on man...
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Old 09-15-2005   #7
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Originally Posted by pittbull
Failing in the Henson pick

How did we fail by drafting Henson? We spent a 6th round pick on the guy and traded him for a 3rd rounder. No one would ever trade a 6th for a 3rd straight up... sounds like a solid trade to me.
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Old 09-15-2005   #8
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Originally Posted by cadahnic
Kaiser you do understand that if we make the play for DJ we do not resign wong to a long term deal. Also in all likelyhood we would not have resigned peek. I understand what you are saying from an operations and finance standpoint, but you have the impact of finance and operations misconstrued. Finance and operations work for our GM who is Casserly. They pay and do what he lays out for them that is why I mentioned him. Also Scouting is not nearly as hyped as it should be. There is a reason Baltimore makes more quality picks than it misses on. They have likely the top scouting department in the league. Those guys know more about football than I would venture anyone on this site does. Scouting in any industry is important to the growth and success of any business within that industry. Come on man...
I agree with your take and admittedly I was not tight on the timeline when we did resign Wong. However, I would say in this instance that the contract for Wong may have been drawn up before the draft and we did not want to tip our cards on what we were doing in our draft position. It sounds like we got the player we wanted and got more value as we traded down.

I agree with the Ravens being spot on with their picks for the most part. It does help when you have a motivator on the field in Ray Lewis. However, I would be remiss to state the obvious that most of their top players were not a reach in the draft - Lewis, Reed, McCallister, Boulware, Suggs, Lewis and Ogden. What they have done a great job on is meshing free agents with this core. I think you would agree that scouting for college prospects and scouting for professional free agents are two different things.
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Old 09-15-2005   #9
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Originally Posted by cadahnic
There is a reason Baltimore makes more quality picks than it misses on. They have likely the top scouting department in the league. Those guys know more about football than I would venture anyone on this site does.
How come the best they can do is Kyle Boller if they have the top scouting department in the league? Just curious about that.
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Old 09-15-2005   #10
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First Kaiser. Yes you are correct the scouting process is quite different. And technically they did reach somewhat because most people passed on Ed Reed, Lewis. and McCalister. Suggs, Boulwayre, J. Lewis and Ogden are examples of good scouting there is no reach there is no doubt that these players were going to be solid. But I do have a better understanding of the point you were making.

Second. Hervoyel. the statement says makes more quality picks than it misses on. If they missed on Boller, which the jury is still not out on, then it is a miss in a long line of quality first day picks. Boller is a good QB and will prove it when he gets healthy and his head on straight. He is not nearly as good as Carr or even Harrington, but He has a cannon and athleticism. He will flourish under Fassel if he gets the chance.
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Old 09-15-2005   #11
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Originally Posted by pittbull
Last season, a DE from W.Michigan, no speed or athletic ability... Failing in the Henson pick...
Any pretense of objectivity went right out the window with these statements.
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Old 09-15-2005   #12
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Originally Posted by HardKnockTexan
How did we fail by drafting Henson? We spent a 6th round pick on the guy and traded him for a 3rd rounder. No one would ever trade a 6th for a 3rd straight up... sounds like a solid trade to me.
LOL, I saw that too.

As soon as I saw that he lost ALL crediblity.

The Henson pick might have been one of the best picks we have ever had.

Take a 6th rounder and trade him straight up to your instate rival for a 3rd round pick!! I like.
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Old 09-15-2005   #13
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
Any pretense of objectivity went right out the window with these statements.
I was thinking the same thing but I understand where he is coming from. The failure of the front office or shall I say the denial of failure of Casserly and hearing Capers not answer direct questions makes me even more upset. As a head coach you have to have some type of emotion that shows you care just as much if not more than the fans and players. I would demote Capers to Dcoord.; fire Casserly; give Palmer his hands back; if we are 3-5 or worse.
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Old 09-15-2005   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadahnic
Kaiser you do understand that if we make the play for DJ we do not resign wong to a long term deal. Also in all likelyhood we would not have resigned peek. I understand what you are saying from an operations and finance standpoint, but you have the impact of finance and operations misconstrued. Finance and operations work for our GM who is Casserly. They pay and do what he lays out for them that is why I mentioned him. Also Scouting is not nearly as hyped as it should be. There is a reason Baltimore makes more quality picks than it misses on. They have likely the top scouting department in the league. Those guys know more about football than I would venture anyone on this site does. Scouting in any industry is important to the growth and success of any business within that industry. Come on man...
"The Ravens scouting department is GREAT." says Kyle Boller's agent.

How's he doing? I here they love him in Baltimore.
They gave up their first round pick in 2004 and their second round pick in 2003 to draft him!!! Good choice scouting department.
(He has a great left tackle, good O-line and a stellar Defense to help him.)
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