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Old 09-13-2005   #21
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When you rewind a train wreck and watch it again you see...a train wreck. This team was ill prepared...plain and simple. Carr has been on his rear since day one of this franchise. Pass protection was not a priority in the offseason. Combine that with the present coaching philosophy and the outcome should surprise nobody.

Teams are going to go blitz crazy against us now. Its going to get worse before it gets any better...
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Old 09-13-2005   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter
every pocket collapses. the difference with other teams though, is their qb is looking at the coverage and "feeling" the rush. carr's backwards. he looked to me atleast to have as much time as anyone else in the league to get off average passes. because we kept atleast 7 blocking on seemingly every play though, he only had one legit target (and additional rushers since there wasnt anyone to cover). we need to use our receivers and tell carr to start throwing the ball. interceptions dont hurt my feelings near as much as "hike, run scared, fall down" over & over.

for yall that can watch the game again ... was it my imagination or did we spend the entire first half in ace & eye formations (aside from a couple 3rd downs). i hope that's not the case because we have one of the weakest crews at TE (all around) & FB (passing) in the league.
you must have been watching a different game than I was. Carr was under immense pressure the entire game, and his recievers were covered pretty tight. Credit to the Bills defense.

But your right Carr does need to step up his play. He has a lot of room for improvement to say the least.
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Old 09-13-2005   #23
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I dont like ints but i will defend the first one some what. I realy think he thought he had a free play and thats why he forced it. I didnt tape it and i dont have Dir TV but I think when he saw flags he though it was illegal contact. Just a thought. The one to Vincent in the end zone was poorly thrown but AJ has to go back to the ball.
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Old 09-13-2005   #24
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Not quite sure how we can pin the goof on Gaffney as I did not hear the play call. How do we not know it was not Carr's fault. The play could have called for a throw 10 more yards down the field.
Then that would be on Palmer as we do not have that much time for a play to develop and of course you would probably accuse Carr of "Locking" on his target.
I seriously doubt it, Gaffney had no clue on that play. In fact I think in Palmers system the WR are not required to adjust too much to the defense. I looked at other games this week and our WR just don't look like they are adjust to the game. Who's fault is that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
After watching the game, Carr was not on target the whole day. I am more likely to believe his decision making an accuracy were much more culpabale than Gaffney's play.
Carr was more on target than you give him credit for. he nailed recievers on several occasions, you are just not giving him credit at all for any of those. I'm not saying Carr is not at fault, he did have several bonehead plays, but EVERYONE did. And with the immense pressure he was constantly on, I can't place the blame on him.
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Old 09-13-2005   #25
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Originally Posted by LBC_Justin
Just finished watching it again.
BTW DirecTV's Superfan package is great. The games in 30 minutes or less. I am going to watch Steelers game in about half an hour from now, after I see how Miami beat Denver. Football fan's dream.


Sounds cool, i guess because its commercial free? I wonder if they have that on Time Warner?
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Old 09-13-2005   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SESupergenius
Then that would be on Palmer as we do not have that much time for a play to develop and of course you would probably accuse Carr of "Locking" on his target.
I seriously doubt it, Gaffney had no clue on that play. In fact I think in Palmers system the WR are not required to adjust too much to the defense. I looked at other games this week and our WR just don't look like they are adjust to the game. Who's fault is that?
Carr was more on target than you give him credit for. he nailed recievers on several occasions, you are just not giving him credit at all for any of those. I'm not saying Carr is not at fault, he did have several bonehead plays, but EVERYONE did. And with the immense pressure he was constantly on, I can't place the blame on him.
Carr does lock on this targets, Troy Vincent an achieved NFL All-Pro and a suppossed character guy said it flat out. I would like Carr not to lock on his targets.

I am not saying it was not Gaffs fault, what I am saying is that we do not know. All I know is that Carr was off pretty much the whole day, when he had time, and Gaff missed most of the preseson.

Carr gets credit for nine completions. As far as the immense pressure is concerned, after Carr watches the tape he needs to exercise the demons that plague him, because he is creating the pressure by not stepping into the pocket.
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Old 09-13-2005   #27
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Originally Posted by HJam72
OK, that's it. I'm watchin' the game again, painfull as that's gonna be.

Actually, I didn't tape the first half, but I'll watch what I've got. I wouldn't be against trying Banks or Ragone Sunday, anyway, just to see what happens, because, shoot, something has to change.

Oh, bye the way, FIRE DD!!! (just kidding)
OK, I'm back.
IMHO, which has just become more humble, these are the three main problems:

1) Corey Bradford. He's not open. He's never gonna be open. If Carr manages to split the D or somehow get the ball to Bradford, he will drop it. This guy's got to go.

2) DD. Sorry. He's gotta work on the pass protection. He was useless as a blocker. Maybe it's because he's used to being the dump-off guy. The corner blitz is killing Carr. Somebody's gotta pick it up.

3) Matt Murphy can't block. Looks like another Miller.

4) The O-line is not catching the delayed blitz by any LB. Sometimes they gang up on the DLs when it's not necessary and then miss the LB coming late. Other times, they just aren't staying home well enough, if that makes sense. The run blocking against a really good D needs work. They did much better overall than I thought on the pass blocking. I may be shutting up soon.

5) Carr does have happy feet. That's true. He runs forward or rolls out many times when a simple step or two up into the pocket would work and he'd stay protected. Once he leaves the pocket, the LBs and corners are lookin' for blood. They need to work on this. He doesn't trust his O-line. Hope he hasn't been reading my posts in the last 2 days.

The one interception in the endzone was totally Carr's fault, yes. He underthrew AJ and shouldn't have been throwing into triple coverage anyway, but he was trying to force the issue. His protection was really lame the whole game and so was the run blocking. I'm just not ready to blame all the team's problems on Carr, but I am ready to see what Banks or Ragone can do for one game and then we'll see. I also saw him run and not make the 1st down marker once when he could've thrown a pass to the receiver being covered by the guy who wound up tackling him (did you follow that?) . I don't remember who the receiver was, but I'm thinking it might have been Murphy (TE). Oh, and about the corner blitz thing: Carr doesn't see it coming because he's not looking at Bradford or Gaffney early enough, not that Bradford would ever be open (except maybe on a corner blitz, lol).

It really boils down to this: the main problem wasn't the O-line, although they were a small part of it. The main problems were the pass blocking of Matt Murphy and DD (and maybe Norris, as much as I hate to say anything bad about that guy). I know DD isn't supposed to be the world's best blocker, but we need him to at least slow people down.
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Old 09-13-2005   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HJam72

3) Matt Murphy can't block. Looks like another Miller.
I mentioned this a few times last year and I posted a thought about Murphy here a couple of weeks ago.

Quote:
I watched Murphy closely and have it taped and will watch it again but I wasn't impressed with his blocking or his awareness. He seemed to miss several key blocks that led to Morency getting hit in the backfield or he would just let a defender shoot beside him in his gap. I was very discouraged by his play.
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Old 09-13-2005   #29
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I think some are starting to come around...
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Old 09-13-2005   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
I have not a fan of Carr's contract, but I do not propose to bench him, especially after wtahcing the game again.
I do belive that he will be able to make mental adjustments after seeing that the line player pretty well. I have much more optimism after watching that game again. We committed many errors that are correctable.
I don't for a moment propose benching Carr just because I'm frustrated with
the results of the teams first game. And as a practical matter it would be very problematic for Capers to sit him down because Carr is the single most important face in McNair's "team Texan" marketing effort. But if he is the primary reason that the offense plays all to often like it did Sunday and we have another player who can do better than Carr, bench him !
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Old 09-13-2005   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
I don't for a moment propose benching Carr just because I'm frustrated with
the results of the teams first game. And as a practical matter it would be very problematic for Capers to sit him down because Carr is the single most important face in McNair's "team Texan" marketing effort. But if he is the primary reason that the offense plays all to often like it did Sunday and we have another player who can do better than Carr, bench him !
Cool I belive we are in agreeance. Its not Carr I am trashing, it is his contract. We need more value out of him for the price we are paying.
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Old 09-13-2005   #32
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Carr does lock on this targets, Troy Vincent an achieved NFL All-Pro and a suppossed character guy said it flat out. I would like Carr not to lock on his targets.

I am not saying it was not Gaffs fault, what I am saying is that we do not know. All I know is that Carr was off pretty much the whole day, when he had time, and Gaff missed most of the preseson.
Carr is going to have a hard day, that was expected by me considering we are facing a top 5 defense, Hell, Manning had a subpar day on his standards. You'd expect Carr to throw at least 1 int in this game, maybe 2. But when your HB fumbles, your pocket is collapsing and your recievers are not getting open, then it's not all on the QB. Sorry, no way no how. You can rerun and look all you want at the replays, hunting for ammo to prove your point, but you still are missing whole picture. Carr was under deep pressure both from the sides and the front. If you say we don't know that it wasn't Gaffney's fault then you should be saying you don't know it's Carrs fault because you don't know what each OL's blocking assignment was? Was Norris supposed to pick up the LB or was our RT supposed to slide out to protect the end? You can ask these questions on every play. Capers himself said that people missed assignments and a couple of the OL said that the blocking scheme was not working. Does Carr block???

Carr gets credit for nine completions. As far as the immense pressure is concerned, after Carr watches the tape he needs to exercise the demons that plague him, because he is creating the pressure by not stepping into the pocket.[/quote]
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Old 09-13-2005   #33
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Carr has never been able to avoid pressure in the pocket. He rarely sidesteps or shuffles - which is something that a QB like Brady does so well - his first escape step is almost always a long stride. He is mobile once he escapes the pocket but nifty feet is not one of his tools.

On the first drive, Chester missed the switch on Schoebel's stunt and left Carr wide open. Carr was on the ground 3 seconds after the he took the snap. Hardly enough time to get rid of the ball. That one's on the OL.
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Old 09-13-2005   #34
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3 seconds is not enough time to get rid of the ball?
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Old 09-13-2005   #35
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I think the most glaring play was the one where Takeo stripped the ball. Bad block by Davis, but it was not on Carr's blind side. All DC had to do was take one step into a beautiful pocket and make the throw.

I am doubting his vision in a game whether it his perihepral vision or the speed of the game he needs to be more aware out there.
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Old 09-13-2005   #36
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u don't know football. The receivers were open. What game were u watching? They just didnt get a chance to make plays, cause #8 is hooked on getting 80 the ball, every play!
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Old 09-13-2005   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SESupergenius
Carr is going to have a hard day, that was expected by me considering we are facing a top 5 defense, Hell, Manning had a subpar day on his standards. You'd expect Carr to throw at least 1 int in this game, maybe 2. But when your HB fumbles, your pocket is collapsing and your recievers are not getting open, then it's not all on the QB. Sorry, no way no how. You can rerun and look all you want at the replays, hunting for ammo to prove your point, but you still are missing whole picture. Carr was under deep pressure both from the sides and the front. If you say we don't know that it wasn't Gaffney's fault then you should be saying you don't know it's Carrs fault because you don't know what each OL's blocking assignment was? Was Norris supposed to pick up the LB or was our RT supposed to slide out to protect the end? You can ask these questions on every play. Capers himself said that people missed assignments and a couple of the OL said that the blocking scheme was not working. Does Carr block???

Carr gets credit for nine completions. As far as the immense pressure is concerned, after Carr watches the tape he needs to exercise the demons that plague him, because he is creating the pressure by not stepping into the pocket.
[/quote]

We are not far off on our takes of Sunday's performance if you would read my other posts. I am not hunting for ammo, I am hunting for answers which I will then form into my own opinion and then apply solutions to it.

My veracity is more pointed towrds DC, because frankly there is a contigent on this board who think he is the only bright spot and will b debate it ad nauseum. I am not saying you are in that camp. If Davis and Murphy do not miss a couple of assignments and Peek makes that interception which would have been a TD we may be singing a diffrent tune.

One last thing on the D:
1st half yards given up 211
2nd half yards given up 105
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Old 09-13-2005   #38
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This is not to suggest a QB change. I do know Ragone wasn't playing against first teamers (or with first teamers).

I thought Ragone had great pocket presence in the last pre-season game. He moved away from pressure and into safe spots without taking off in a complete run and while looking down field. I thought he had good command of the offense.
That was the pre-season, against the 3rd and 4th string. Did you even watch him during training camp, he couldnt even throw a 15yd out.
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Old 09-13-2005   #39
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Originally Posted by LBC_Justin
you must have been watching a different game than I was. Carr was under immense pressure the entire game, and his recievers were covered pretty tight. Credit to the Bills defense.

But your right Carr does need to step up his play. He has a lot of room for improvement to say the least.
What game were you watching? the other receivers were open, he didnt look their way. He was too busy, trying to give 80 the ball, Bradford was 1 on 1 backside, every play. But he didnt look his way.
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Old 09-13-2005   #40
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Then are respectfully going to have to agree to disagree. It's chicken before the egg point of view. I have no ism towards Carr, he does have his issues, but he try's to make plays when things break down, I like that. I saw McNabb have a complete meltdown last night and didn't try to make plays. Our offensive as a whole just does not seem in sync. I saw a dart to AJ that wasn't caught, I saw Murphy not even give an effort to go after a ball, I saw Gaffney not making any plays. I saw Carr with happy feet. I saw numberous turnovers. I saw just a complete meltdown by a team, and funny thing is, well into the 3rd QTR I felt we still had a chance.

The defense did well in the 2nd half, but McGahee was the concentration to kill the clock. This next game is going to tell us plenty.
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