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Old 09-13-2005   #1
Kaiser Toro
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Default I watched the game again last night and was surprised

Ok, I watched game all the plays in 30 minutes via DirecTV's Superfan package and did not realize how good we looked in places and how awful we were at a couple of positions. By the way, watched the Jags game and Matt Jones is going to be scary.

Firstly, The offensive line played very well on Sunday. I counted one sack allowed. The rest were Davis's, Murphy's and a receiver's (was out of the picture on the edge) fault. Run blocking good, pass blocking good. Bravo to the O Line.

Secondly, Greenwood and Wong needed to bring thier A game and they brought their mighty mite game. I do not doubt their physical capabilities nor their intelligence, but they were constanttly firing into the backs of our defenders or right into their blockers. There were not many times that these guys fired into the gap and had an opportunity to make a play. This needs to be watched more than anything as the season progresses for the 3-4 haters.

Thirdly, defensive line was not as bad as you think, they got pressure, thye made tackles, but had their share of some negative plays. They get a C- because they gave effort the whole game.

Peek and Babin, man if they can get consistent and not have bonehead plays we could be watching the start of something special. They both ran down thre RB s the play was going away from them, had some nice rushes. But yes the near miss by Peek and the offsides to be addressed. I think we will like what we get from these guys moving forward.

PBuch - Yes he gave up 5 catches, but nothing to go crazy over. Tackled much better than I thought he was capable of. I want to see him again, but I think we will like the results of this acquisition.

Dunta - All over the place, no fear. Get ready for people to start talking on ESPN about him.

CC Brown - Great quickness on the blitz. Good pick Cass.

DDavis - Better learn how to protect your QB or you may be on the bench.

Murphy - Scary how poor of a blocker this guy is. I never realized how glaring our problem is at TE.

At the leaves us with Carr and man was it worse than even I thought it could be. I started out counting how many seconds he had when he dropped back to pass. I conted around on average of 3 seconds, which I think is fair amount of time to go through a couple of reads and step into the pocket for your other progressions. What is happening is that David drops back and is locked on a receiver and one of three things happen - 1) he throws and it ain't pretty; 2) he takes off and runs; 3) he takes off an tries to create something. Only taking off and run is the good thing. The point here is that the guy has happy feet, plain and simple. If he would just step up into the pocket (and yes OLINE haters there were planty of pockets) and get anohter look, this may solve our problems.

I felt much better about the way we played, after the emotion was stripped away. Moreover, I believe Carr will watch this film and see what the hell happened. He can lead this team if he does a mea culpa, that is if he has not lost them already.
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Old 09-13-2005   #2
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Couldn't have said it better myself, awesome post...
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Old 09-13-2005   #3
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Good post, the party line on this board seems to blame the offensive line, when, in fact alot of the blame lies on CARR. This is his year to step up and show improvement. I hope the coaches realize we have two other qb's.
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Old 09-13-2005   #4
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Carson Palmer and Joey Harrington have stepped up this year...
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Old 09-13-2005   #5
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To add to my long post here are the significant plays:

1st Half:
Davis missed block and a hold.
Receiver missed block, sack
Payne offsides
Payne defensive holding
Carr Rollout, horrible pass to AJ on a 15 yard out
Delay of the game on the Texans at the Bills 5

2nd Half:
David hold
Peek missed interception
Davis missed block, sack
Murphy missed block, sack
Carr interception by Vincent. Carr did not see Vincent at all.
Roughing the passer, on Simmons?
Murphy missed block
Carr runs but does not get first
Takeo causes fumble, Carr no vision and if he made one step up into pocket avoids Takeo.
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Old 09-13-2005   #6
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I've posted stuff like this last year about what people think happened in a game based on expectations rather than watching closely to see the actual plays themselves. I haven't rewatched this game that closely, so I don't even know if I agree with you or not - but good luck effecting anybody's opinion on anything.

Nice to see a post with some thought and effort put in it. Sadly, it probably won't garner near the discussion of a "fire everybody" thread though.
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Old 09-13-2005   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
To add to my long post here are the significant plays:

1st Half:
Davis missed block and a hold.
Received missed block, sack
Payne offsides
Payne defensive holding
Carr Rollout, horrible pass to AJ on a 15 yard out
Delay of the game on the Texans at the Bills 5

2nd Half:
David hold
Peek missed interception
Davis missed block, sack
Murphy missed block, sack
Carr interception by Vincent. Carr did not se Vincent at all.
Roughing the passer, on Simmons?
Murphy missed block
Carr runs but does not get first
Takeo causes fumble, Carr no vision and if he made one step up into pocket avoids Takeo.
I'd say the sack the o-line did give up on the third play of the game to force a punt was significant too. It kind of helped set the tone.
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Old 09-13-2005   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by profan
the party line on this board seems to blame the offensive line, when, in fact alot of the blame lies on CARR.
I think the phrase you're looking for regarding the Carr vs OL issue is split vote rather than party line because there is a lot of people on both sides
of the issue. But whatever we call it I've been more critical of the OLine than Carr about Sundays game, but if DCs the primary problem hey, I say bench
him and go with one of the other 2 QBs. I'm interested in the team succeeding
far more than sheltering any single player from justified criticism. If we've got
someone who can play the position better (or do less damage thru mistakes),
put him in the game coach.
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Old 09-13-2005   #9
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Well after 3 years of getting your brain bashed in week in and week out I expect the man to have a bit of happy feet.
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Old 09-13-2005   #10
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Default I understand what you are say but....

I understand that some of the blame is with Carr but he only has one reciever in A. Johnson and the line does have to give him more that 1.1 sec per pass play....everyone keeps saying he doesn't read the defense but you have to have time to read. The Pocket was never there for him to read or get a complete throw off to his recievers and then when he did get one off the reciever wasn't even looking and it hit him in the arm!

We need another WR, TE to give Carr options when he is out there..not just AJ and DD! Anyway, I don't think you can blame just one person but if you have time you will be able to make strong throws, read a defense and make the right call without having someone on your back....Carr has been crushed for three years and then again on sunday. It isn't just the RB or a WR missing blocks...It is the O~Line missing blocks. It is poor play calling and a lack of QB Coach...I don't understand that one, when you spend that much money on a player you don't have a Coach for him...Palmer is a poor coach and that is being nice. He may be more of a problem then the line, Carr, and everything that is wrong with our boys period!

GEAUX TEXANS,

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Houston, Texas
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Old 09-13-2005   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
I think the phrase you're looking for regarding the Carr vs OL issue is split vote rather than party line because there is a lot of people on both sides
of the issue. But whatever we call it I've been more critical of the OLine than Carr about Sundays game, but if DCs the primary problem hey, I say bench
him and go with one of the other 2 QBs. I'm interested in the team succeeding
far more than sheltering any single player from justified criticism. If we've got
someone who can play the position better (or do less damage thru mistakes),
put him in the game coach.
I have not a fan of Carr's contract, but I do not propose to bench him, especially after wtahcing the game again.

I do belive that he will be able to make mental adjustments after seeing that the line player pretty well. I have much more optimism after watching that game again. We committed many errors that are correctable.
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Old 09-13-2005   #12
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OK, that's it. I'm watchin' the game again, painfull as that's gonna be.

Actually, I didn't tape the first half, but I'll watch what I've got. I wouldn't be against trying Banks or Ragone Sunday, anyway, just to see what happens, because, shoot, something has to change.

Oh, bye the way, FIRE DD!!! (just kidding)
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Old 09-13-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aphia1996
I understand that some of the blame is with Carr but he only has one reciever in A. Johnson and the line does have to give him more that 1.1 sec per pass play....everyone keeps saying he doesn't read the defense but you have to have time to read. The Pocket was never there for him to read or get a complete throw off to his recievers and then when he did get one off the reciever wasn't even looking and it hit him in the arm!

We need another WR, TE to give Carr options when he is out there..not just AJ and DD! Anyway, I don't think you can blame just one person but if you have time you will be able to make strong throws, read a defense and make the right call without having someone on your back....Carr has been crushed for three years and then again on sunday. It isn't just the RB or a WR missing blocks...It is the O~Line missing blocks. It is poor play calling and a lack of QB Coach...I don't understand that one, when you spend that much money on a player you don't have a Coach for him...Palmer is a poor coach and that is being nice. He may be more of a problem then the line, Carr, and everything that is wrong with our boys period!

GEAUX TEXANS,

James H.
Houston, Texas
I respect your opinion, but please watch the game again.
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Old 09-13-2005   #14
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I watched the 30 minute thing last night too, sure David has happy feat, what you are not telling is how the line is collapsing on almost every play. He doesn't have room to move and has no confidence in someone picking up the blitz. People complain about the offensive line, and yes that does include the RB and RB and whoever is in to block. Carr was hurried 8 times before the middle of the 3rd quarter. I can understand if you don't like Carr but please tell the whole picture. you didn't even mention Gaffney Goof.
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Old 09-13-2005   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SESupergenius
I watched the 30 minute thing last night too, sure David has happy feat, what you are not telling is how the line is collapsing on almost every play. He doesn't have room to move and has no confidence in someone picking up the blitz. People complain about the offensive line, and yes that does include the RB and RB and whoever is in to block. Carr was hurried 8 times before the middle of the 3rd quarter. I can understand if you don't like Carr but please tell the whole picture. you didn't even mention Gaffney Goof.
Not quite sure how we can pin the goof on Gaffney as I did not hear the play call. How do we not know it was not Carr's fault. The play could have called for a throw 10 more yards down the field.

After watching the game, Carr was not on target the whole day. I am more likely to believe his decision making an accuracy were much more culpabale than Gaffney's play.
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Old 09-13-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by profan
Good post, the party line on this board seems to blame the offensive line, when, in fact alot of the blame lies on CARR. This is his year to step up and show improvement. I hope the coaches realize we have two other qb's.
Well still considering our defense held them to only one TD as bad as we played, i think they did ok, on the defense end that is... And usually when Carr has such a bad game, he finds a way to turn things around on the next, along with Andre...Lets just hope this was first game jetters and its over with.....I still liked Swinston for punt return and i think it was a mistake to cut such a fast guy who did well in preseason.... :brickwall Face it the guy was hurddling over the Cowboys when he ran a 100 yd return...If we can't rely on size for this OL, we need speed....
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Old 09-13-2005   #17
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Just finished watching it again.

Carr was under a lot of pressure the whole game. The protection time he was given was UNACCEPTABLE. O-line, RB, TE, WR, all not that great of blocking. Carr does stare at his recievers, and his WR didn't play well. After watching this game we do need to give the Bills Defense some credit they played spectacular.

Losman didn't play as well as I thought he did. He threw into double coverage a few times and should have been picked off on more than one occasion.

5 turnovers - 0 takeaways. Even with how badly the Texans played,If you swap those two stats, the Texans probably win this game.

BTW DirecTV's Superfan package is great. The games in 30 minutes or less. I am going to watch Steelers game in about half an hour from now, after I see how Miami beat Denver. Football fan's dream.


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Old 09-13-2005   #18
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every pocket collapses. the difference with other teams though, is their qb is looking at the coverage and "feeling" the rush. carr's backwards. he looked to me atleast to have as much time as anyone else in the league to get off average passes. because we kept atleast 7 blocking on seemingly every play though, he only had one legit target (and additional rushers since there wasnt anyone to cover). we need to use our receivers and tell carr to start throwing the ball. interceptions dont hurt my feelings near as much as "hike, run scared, fall down" over & over.

for yall that can watch the game again ... was it my imagination or did we spend the entire first half in ace & eye formations (aside from a couple 3rd downs). i hope that's not the case because we have one of the weakest crews at TE (all around) & FB (passing) in the league.
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Old 09-13-2005   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBC_Justin
Just finished watching it again.

Carr does stare at his recievers, and his WR didn't play well.
How can you tell that? I'm in the middle of breaking down the game now (I'll spew my spewage a bit later) and I can't see the WR routes. Do you have another version of the game I don't have?

Nice thread KT. Gave you some rep power!
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Old 09-13-2005   #20
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This is not to suggest a QB change. I do know Ragone wasn't playing against first teamers (or with first teamers).

I thought Ragone had great pocket presence in the last pre-season game. He moved away from pressure and into safe spots without taking off in a complete run and while looking down field. I thought he had good command of the offense.
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