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Old 09-12-2005   #21
TexanTom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy
"That's as hopeless as I've felt in the pocket," he said

That's a very damning statment, espically coming form Carr.

Has Carr regresed? Yeah I think so. Does he have the talent and knowledge to succed in teh NFL? I think he does, but I doubt we'll ever see it with the current regime; and if Capers is over riding Palmer's attemtps to open up the game, which is what Justice is implying, then Dom's time is up.

I never thought I'd be sayign these things but yesterday's performance may be these team's worst yet, and I fear for Carr next week.
Along the same lines - out of Len Pasquarelli's Morning After over on espn.com

Quote:
Observations on the Week 1 action from one AFC scout and from a former NFL personnel director:

"The clock has got to be ticking on [Houston offensive coordinator] Chris Palmer or [quarterback David] Carr, doesn't it? I mean, that was just a pitiful display of offense [at Buffalo]. And Carr just looks like he's suddenly regressed. It was like he was trying to read a foreign language. They've got way too big an investment in the guy for him to be playing that lousy."
Now, I've never really been on the 'Fire the coaches!' bandwagon and I'm DEFINITELY not on the 'Start Ragone' bandwagon. The coaches didn't fumble the ball or throw the INT's; the coaches didn't jump offsides every time a blitz was called on a passing down in the first half; it was too painful to try and rewatch to see if some of the truly questionable play calls were audibles or what; but I was downright embarassed as a Texan's fan. I think as the year progresses we'll find out the Bills were a pretty good team, but if the play doesn't improve from what we saw this week you can pretty much guarantee some coaches will be gone whether they deserve it or not.
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Old 09-12-2005   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy
...if Capers is over riding Palmer's attemtps to open up the game, which is what Justice is implying, then Dom's time is up.
I didn't get that from the Justice article. Look at these quotes:

Quote:
Around the NFL, some believed offensive line coach Joe Pendry had a big hand in the offensive changes. He's a former offensive coordinator and a man who probably sees offensive football the way Capers sees it.

Palmer still calls the plays. And coincidentally or not, the Texans didn't do the things they'd done the past six months in practice. Carr was sacked five times.
Quote:
Yet on Sunday, Carr said the three-step drop the quickest release, the one that might have negated the Buffalo pass rush was called only "two or three times."
Reads to me as if Palmer thumbed his nose at Pendry's short passing game. Maybe because the execution was so poor during the preseason. Maybe because he doesn't like Pendry moving in on his turf.

I don't know what the answer is. But Capers is the head coach, and he deserves to sink or swim with his style of football. Maybe it's time to hand over the play calling duties to Pendry? I don't expect it to happen now, but maybe over the bye week. I don't see how it could hurt.
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Old 09-12-2005   #23
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I think it earily reminescent to what some of our departed players have said concerning leadership. Maybe not exact words, but similar in a way as well.

If it is two different styles of leadership - there's a major issue (obviously). It's hard working for multiple managers, much moreso when the managers have different expectations. Seems all want to do their thing with some relation to the "team goal", but no real commonality between expectations.

Typing that - it seems to come down to el GRANDE McNair to inform Capers it's time for the focus... whatever that may be. Then for Capers to close the mouth except when stating to the others (including Casserly) - THIS is how we're going to do it. Then if it fails once more... it's on Capers for not being the sideline leader.

Capers apprently informs Casserly what guys he wants in the draft - either that's not true, or there's a breakdown in that communication.
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Old 09-12-2005   #24
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""That's as hopeless as I've felt in the pocket," he said.
"We've got the players," Carr said. "We've got talent. But they (the Bills) were on everything. Everything we did, they jumped. There's no other way to put it. We just didn't get it done."
***********************************************
Remember Billy Bibbit in "One Flew over the Cukoo nest " ? You know, the
poor sap that Nuse Ratchett bullied into being so insecure about himself that he stuttered badly with every sentence he spoke. I swear that's who I thought of when I saw Carr on TV being interviewed after the game.
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Old 09-12-2005   #25
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I hate to say this, because i want to have faith in my team, but I believe that the coaching staff may have ruined a potentially amazing QB's carreer. The inablity to provide any kind of protection for Carr has made him so quick to scramble that he's not trusting the system and doing what it takes to make the progress an elite NFL QB needs to making. Even if our line has gotten better, it's tough to tell because the moment he feels a bit of pressure he's on the run. He doesnt trust his teammates to pick up the pass rush the second before they get to him. When i was watching manning and the colts last night, i saw the difference trust in your teammates can make on how good you perform. Manning would feel heavy pressure but he trusted his linemen enough to believe that they would pick up the rush before they got to him. Manning will hang in the pocket long enough to make his reads where the second carr feels the heat he's on the run, destroying any kind of chance of executing the called play.
This is the worst i've ever felt after a game. Even after last years opening day loss, i could see signs that we improved as a team. Yesterday showed me no progress. I've always supported our team, coaching staff and QB, but after yesterday, thoughts i didnt want to ever have started creeping into my mind. With bassically the same offense on the field as last season there is NO excuse for not showing signs of improvement... I'm so disapointed...
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Old 09-12-2005   #26
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Quote:
Bills safety Troy Vincent, who had two of the three interceptions, said Carr looks at some receivers too long before delivering the ball.
We will have a problem with this offense until Carr fixes the locking on WRs and especially locking down on Davis.

I read something in my Sporting news mag about the quick drops with Carr. It said he threw too many INTs in practice with the quick drops and that's why they probably dont call it. That was re-affirmed in the Tampa Bay game. Palmer and Capers dont trust Carr with the quick drops because it would greatly increase the chances for INTs.
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Old 09-12-2005   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
I'm not apologizing for Carr but he wasn't this flaky when he got here. I think we made him what he is now. We destroyed his confidence and let the rest of the NFL destroy his body in a record setting beating that's still in progress.

Whatever he might have been able to become we'll never know because we can't start over with him from the beginning. That baggage he's carrying around will be there for the rest of his career and I would not be the slightest bit surprised if that career grinds to a halt right here in Houston this season or next.
Man, you hit the nail on the head of my gut feelings watching the game yesterday.

The old "what if" game comes up: what if Carr had been taken by an established team, would he be the NFL QB stud? I think so. He's definitely got the talent and smarts for it.

So what if the beatings of the last three years, the lack of protection, the constant fear and lack of trust in his line...what if all of this has formed into reactions that cause him to make bad decisions?

These formative years are so important to an NFL QB. He is developing flight tendencies from our team's inability to provide him with consistent protection.

If we had chosen Joey Harrington, I am convinced that he would be developing the same way.
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Old 09-12-2005   #28
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Happy feet, some quarterbacks have them, some don't, and some develop them right before your very eyes.
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Old 09-12-2005   #29
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If we had chosen Joey Harrington, I am convinced that he would be developing the same way.
If we had chosen ANY quarterback, they would be developing this same way. The sad thing is, people will be calling for us to draft another QB soon, and all that will do is ruin another QB's career chances. We need to fix the O-line and offensive philosophy first.
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Old 09-12-2005   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
Happy feet, some quarterbacks have them, some don't, and some develop them right before your very eyes.
Love the new avatar, man! I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to e-mail a copy of it to a couple of Texans buddies that are bummed out about the team. They don't come to the forum to get all the happy feelings like I do.
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Old 09-12-2005   #31
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Originally Posted by eriadoc
If we had chosen ANY quarterback, they would be developing this same way. The sad thing is, people will be calling for us to draft another QB soon, and all that will do is ruin another QB's career chances. We need to fix the O-line and offensive philosophy first.
ding ding ding we have a winner
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Old 09-12-2005   #32
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I nominate Hervoyel as official quality Avatar maker! Classic. Can we get one with the playbook noting:

page 1 - 1st down - run
page 2 - 2nd down and 8 - pass
page 3 - 3rd down and 15 - run

Sorry - I guess off topic.

Back on - is it becoming clearer then what our true needs are?
- Capers, offensive coaches, and Casserly are not truly on the same page and the players are suffering for it? Something (someone) needs to be adjusted.
- Carr has been "trained" for the quick hit, therefore has "lock on or run" syndrome? How long would it take to re-estabilsh the trust, if at all, even if we improved the line today (with either players or that "better scheme").

I do know, that if we do go on some winning streak this season... better not see some friggin "Caper's movie night" after that... there's a ways to go before movie time should pop back up in Texans-land.
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Old 09-12-2005   #33
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They're welcome to it Double Barrel. I'm going to do most of my venting through avatar design in the coming weeks so keep your eyes open and you might find some more you like.
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Old 09-12-2005   #34
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May be a little off topic, but really didnt see the need for another thread.

I'm also tired of empty promises from this coaching staff. Last year it was we are going to get Hollings touches in the game. This year it is, we are going to give Morency about 10 touches in the game. I dont think he got one. We will blitz more. Nope. Quicker routes. Didnt see those. Carr seeing the field better. Uh-uh. And the list goes on.
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Old 09-12-2005   #35
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Originally Posted by TheOgre
The offense is stale and predictable. I think Chris Palmer and Greg Davis (Texas Longhorn's Offensive Coordinator) went to the same school. It is very aggravating.

I personally believe that Carr can be a good to great QB, but not with the current setup.
You stole the words right out of my mouth. Texas almost lost that game due to the repeating of plays that was just not working.

Memo to Palmer:

You need to stop snacking in the booth and start paying attention to what the heck is going on with this team. Explain to me why commit your entire offseason to 3 step drops and then use it three times.

Insane: we all heard this one...doing the same thing trying to get different results.

Keep Capers and send him to the Defensive coord.

Fire Casserly and Palmer

Convince Andre Johnson to stay and extend his contract since that is in style these days.

Trade Dom Davis before he fumbles his value away.

Cut Bradford, and stop signing guys because they go to church and won't talk bad (tell the truth) about the organization.

Okay I am ranting but com'n can you seriously believe that this team/management are doing what they "say" they were going to do.

Game one is understood but I have seen 3 straight games like this. Not just one.
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Old 09-12-2005   #36
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palmer needs to go i'm sick and tired of seeing him ruin the texans, enough is enough, he's been calling the same plays for 4 years, u could give me a week with an nfl defense and i could stop the texans offense right now, thats how sad his play calling is....
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Old 09-12-2005   #37
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Did you notice Carr looked hurt in the second quarter? He threw like he couldnt extend right.
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Old 09-12-2005   #38
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Originally Posted by Hervoyel
Ok, I'm sure most everyone here has or will read this article in todays Chronicle. Would all of you do me the courtesy of telling me what you think about it here on this thread?
Sadly.......and I mean it literally, SADLY, Justice was right on the money about every point. I could definitely sense the frustration through his keyboard that we all feel, and are afraid to say after only the first game.
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Old 09-13-2005   #39
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Ok, I'm sure most everyone here has or will read this article in todays Chronicle. Would all of you do me the courtesy of telling me what you think about it here on this thread?
Herv,

I've spoken about this time and time again over the years and I think this offense is a product of Capers and will probably not open up until he is fired. I don't think that Palmer is the right guy to point a finger at (although he should take his share of the blame for sure) since he had a fantastic offense at Jacksonville with Jimmy Smith and Mark Bruenell, but nobody wants to hear that so I just stopped speaking about it because I just don't want to argue a point that is so debatable and with so much random hysteria attached to it here. The Palmer Jags were one of the most explosive offenses in the NFL and Brunell never played better than he did under Palmer (In Brunells 12 year career, the 2 of Brunells highest QB rating years came under Palmer). I'd say the same thing about Bledsoe. Bledsoe had his best years under Palmer and once Palmer left Bledsoe hasn't produced the same way. I have a few more thoughts on this but will probably relay them as this season unfolds. Palmer is not the guy who wants an ultra conservative, ball-controll offense. That man is Capers.
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Old 09-13-2005   #40
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I appreciate you telling me what you think about that article. Question for you Vinny and if you would rather not open a debate on it out here then IM me with the answer. Do you think that the Texans would be better off if (and I know exactly how unlikely this is) Capers took the fall on this right now and if, over the objections of the entire Palmer hating world, Chris got promoted to interim head coach?

The howling would be heard for miles I bet and fans everywhere would be leaping out of windows but I wonder if the change might not be for the better.

And for the record I'm not rabidly after firing Palmer despite what my sig says. I just thought it was funny.
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