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Old 09-09-2005   #1
Meloy
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Default Trade Ragone?

Historically, Carr has missed few plays and management seems happy with the solid play of Banks who has a reasonable salary. As the season progresses and QBs start dropping, do we dangle Ragone for a second or high 3rd round in 2006? We have had some good selections with those rounds. I think i'm correct when I say, Banks is signed thru '06 and BJ Symmons remains intriguing for the future back up role. Any thoughts?
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Old 09-09-2005   #2
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Why would a GM give 3rd, much less a 2nd round choice for a 3rd sting Qb with one career start?
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Old 09-09-2005   #3
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You have two fallacies here. First, what "solid play of Banks" would you be speaking of? Secondly, what would possibly posess any GM in his right mind to use a 2nd or 3rd rd draft choice on a totally unproven QB, whose few NFL snaps were not exactly awe inspiring.
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Old 09-09-2005   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meloy
...BJ Symmons remains intriguing for the future back up role. Any thoughts?
Are you serious? Did you not see him play? What is with people and BJ Symons? Just because he was a product of the system at Tech doen't mean he's an NFL Quarterback.
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Old 09-09-2005   #5
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stop falling in love with our own players. If people weren't willing to trade for Rohan Davey a former NFLE MVP and Patriot why would they trade for an even less proven Ragone?
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Old 09-09-2005   #6
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Originally Posted by TMac48
Are you serious? Did you not see him play? What is with people and BJ Symons? Just because he was a product of the system at Tech doen't mean he's an NFL Quarterback.
Ya that one too. That makes three falicies.
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Old 09-09-2005   #7
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Now personally I believe that Dave Ragone could very well net the Texans a low 1 or a 2 via trade. I understand not a lot of you think that and that's cool. My point though is that it's way too soon for that. What you probably need to happen is this

a) Banks moves on and Ragone moves up to the #2 spot (Shouldn't take long)

b) Carr gets injured and Ragone has to play for at least two weeks, probably three or more. (Don't want that to happen but it's certainly possible)

c) Ragone has to play very, very well when that happens. (This again I think is possible.)

d) Someone has to fall in love with him. Like the Dolphins fell for Feeley some team is going to have to decide that he's the one thing they need.

Ragone's getting there and he looks a ton better than he did in his rookie year. He's still got a little more to do though.
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Old 09-09-2005   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
Now personally I believe that Dave Ragone could very well net the Texans a low 1 or a 2 via trade. I understand not a lot of you think that and that's cool. My point though is that it's way too soon for that. What you probably need to happen is this

a) Banks moves on and Ragone moves up to the #2 spot (Shouldn't take long)

b) Carr gets injured and Ragone has to play for at least two weeks, probably three or more. (Don't want that to happen but it's certainly possible)

c) Ragone has to play very, very well when that happens. (This again I think is possible.)

d) Someone has to fall in love with him. Like the Dolphins fell for Feeley some team is going to have to decide that he's the one thing they need.

Ragone's getting there and he looks a ton better than he did in his rookie year. He's still got a little more to do though.
A- Ragone has had three training camps to move past Banks.

B- Hate specualting on injuries

C-Given A, and possibily B (if poor OL play contributes to the injury) then 50/50 at best.

D- The guy with Dolphins is out of a job largely for bad trades (Lamar Gordon also).
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Old 09-09-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacquescas
stop falling in love with our own players. If people weren't willing to trade for Rohan Davey a former NFLE MVP and Patriot why would they trade for an even less proven Ragone?
two words: Drew Henson
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Old 09-09-2005   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBC_Justin
two words: Drew Henson
Rohan Davey is a better match for Dave Ragone than Henson. Henson was unproven, but thought of as an exceptional, probably 1st round talent.
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Old 09-09-2005   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan
Why would a GM give 3rd, much less a 2nd round choice for a 3rd sting Qb with one career start?
Not unheard of:
A.J. Feeley - 3rd string QB (McNabb, Koy Detmer). Traded to Miami for 2nd round pick.

Not that I think its going to happen, or agree with it.
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Old 09-09-2005   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCROD
Not unheard of:
A.J. Feeley - 3rd string QB (McNabb, Koy Detmer). Traded to Miami for 2nd round pick.
...and then Miami fired everyone.
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Old 09-09-2005   #13
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...and then Miami fired everyone.
Didn't say it was wise; said it happened before.
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Old 09-09-2005   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan
A- Ragone has had three training camps to move past Banks.

B- Hate specualting on injuries

C-Given A, and possibily B (if poor OL play contributes to the injury) then 50/50 at best.

D- The guy with Dolphins is out of a job largely for bad trades (Lamar Gordon also).
A. Do you think that he was expected to move past Banks during his first training camp? The two starts from his rookie season should tell you everything you need to know to answer that question. Nor did he pass Banks after his second camp. We just watched his third camp and honestly, he may be behind him on the depth chart but I don't have a doubt in my mind which one of the two I'd start of Carr got kidnapped by aliens tomorrow. Banks would have had the worst preseason I've ever laid eyes on if it hadn't been for Carr's play.

B. I agree but they happen and that's how backup QB's get noticed.

C. I think it's a little better than 50/50. I think it is also directly related to how many games he plays and how comfortable he looks out there. Start him four weeks in a row for the Steelers and he might just look a little bit like Big Ben. Start him for the 2003 Texans and....well we saw that didn't we. I think he'd look pretty good in that same situation today but unless it happens we'll never know.

D. Yes he is out of a job but he made the trade and firing him didn't get Miami their pick back did it? There's always someone willing to take a chance (even a foolish chance) in the NFL. I've been watching this league for almost 30 years and I don't think a single year has gone by without someone doing something stupid. Usually that person works for the Lions but that's beside the point. Mike Ditka's going to trade his entire draft for Ricky Williams, The Lions are going to make a bad QB related decision (Scott Mitchell? anyone), and a few teams every season are going to overpay for someone they don't need. Ragone could be that guy who gets over paid and the Texans could be the team that nets a 2 or maybe even a 1 for him. It's just a question of the circumstances falling into place properly.
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Old 09-09-2005   #15
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Originally Posted by Meloy
Historically, Carr has missed few plays and management seems happy with the solid play of Banks who has a reasonable salary. As the season progresses and QBs start dropping, do we dangle Ragone for a second or high 3rd round in 2006? We have had some good selections with those rounds. I think i'm correct when I say, Banks is signed thru '06 and BJ Symmons remains intriguing for the future back up role. Any thoughts?
Rose colored glasses need to come off buddy. Ragone is worth MAYBE a sixth or worse. Most likely not worth anything at all.
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Old 09-09-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
A. Do you think that he was expected to move past Banks during his first training camp? The two starts from his rookie season should tell you everything you need to know to answer that question. Nor did he pass Banks after his second camp. We just watched his third camp and honestly, he may be behind him on the depth chart but I don't have a doubt in my mind which one of the two I'd start of Carr got kidnapped by aliens tomorrow. Banks would have had the worst preseason I've ever laid eyes on if it hadn't been for Carr's play.

B. I agree but they happen and that's how backup QB's get noticed.

C. I think it's a little better than 50/50. I think it is also directly related to how many games he plays and how comfortable he looks out there. Start him four weeks in a row for the Steelers and he might just look a little bit like Big Ben. Start him for the 2003 Texans and....well we saw that didn't we. I think he'd look pretty good in that same situation today but unless it happens we'll never know.

D. Yes he is out of a job but he made the trade and firing him didn't get Miami their pick back did it? There's always someone willing to take a chance (even a foolish chance) in the NFL. I've been watching this league for almost 30 years and I don't think a single year has gone by without someone doing something stupid. Usually that person works for the Lions but that's beside the point. Mike Ditka's going to trade his entire draft for Ricky Williams, The Lions are going to make a bad QB related decision (Scott Mitchell? anyone), and a few teams every season are going to overpay for someone they don't need. Ragone could be that guy who gets over paid and the Texans could be the team that nets a 2 or maybe even a 1 for him. It's just a question of the circumstances falling into place properly.
A-If Banks is close to being out of the door as I read on this board, then Ragone should have passed him already. Seriously, there has been zero indicaaton from the Texans that Banks is not the 2nd string Qb or that Ragone is 2nd QB. Until Ragone moves past him on the depth chart this is nice message board chatter, but has zero basis in anything that is going on in the organization.

B-OK

C-50/50 is being kind. NLFe and Pre-season is not mid-season, 1st string defenses who are blitzing and trying to confuse a QB. There will be four or five third stringers of differing experiences start this year. Maybe one of them proves to be a solid QB. Could that Ragone, of course, but not a bet I want to make.

D-I assume that the Texans are making a fair trade at fair value with GMs who have a clue.

All of this said, I think Ragone is fine where he is at. The texans don't have another option as a developmental back-up and if comes to a third QB, I would rather a guy who has beeen around for 3 years and shown some talent than the Bachelor or whoever the heck the Texans have been running through here lately for tryouts.
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Old 09-09-2005   #17
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Rose colored glasses need to come off buddy. Ragone is worth MAYBE a sixth or worse. Most likely not worth anything at all
Well I have to say , I would'nt trade a Ragone for a J.P. Lossman
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Old 09-09-2005   #18
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You could probably try to trade him to the Browns or Dolphins, but you're not getting a first day pick...
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Old 09-10-2005   #19
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the browns would not trade for him, they just drafted charlie frye.
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Old 09-10-2005   #20
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Well I have to say , I would'nt trade a Ragone for a J.P. Lossman
I wouldnt want him, hell I woudlnt trade Carr for Losman.
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