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Old 09-09-2005   #1
eriadoc
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Default Carr's Strengths/Weaknesses

I see so many Carr-bashing threads out there that I wanted to say something. Most things on this site seem to be overblown and the Carr issue is no different, but it's still worth addressing. People are coming to judgment way too quickly on Carr, when I will say right now that I don't think ANY other QB (Manning, Pepper, whoever) would have done any better in the same situation for the past 3 years. Think about this - what are Carr's strengths and weaknesses? I'll put them down as I see it.

Arm Strength - Strength. I don't think there are many in the league that can claim any better.

Mobility - Strength. Aside from Vick, Pepper, and McNabb, Carr is probably the best.

Accuracy - Strength. This is where some will differ, but I will simply point out that Carr seldom overthrows or underthrows his receivers. He may miss altogether on a miscommunicated route, but that falls as much on the WR as Carr. Carr can thread in some beautiful passes and more often than not, hits his WR square in the hands. Completion % doesn't tell the true story, although Carr's was certainly respectable last year. I don't consider McNabb to be a very accurate passer, for instance, even though he completed something like 67% of his passes last season. Go back and watch some tapes (heck, the Super Bowl) of McNabb and see how many times he made completions, but put the ball in a spot that hampered his receiver from making a better play. Just an observation.

Toughness - Strength. I don't think anyone here can honestly say to themselves that Carr is not one of the toughest in the game.

Leadership - Weakness. I hesitate to put weakness here, because I really believe that everyone on that team respects him and he has command of the huddle. But he needs to stop letting his emotions get the better of him in games, IMO.

Field Vision - Weakness. I think everyone will agree this is Carr's primary weakness. I will say, however, that he's not really been given a chance to survey the field and learn to read defenses as well as we fans would like. I see people complain about Carr dropping back in the pocket and getting "happy feet" like he thinks he's about to be hit. Well, Pavlov's Theory - he IS about to be hit. He's been trained.

Decision-making - Strength. Here again, some will disagree with me, but think about it. Carr makes sound decisions with the football. He gets out of bounds, throws it away, what have you. He usually doesn't try to force the action too much. Maybe he should, but HE HAS BEEN COACHED not to. So by listening to his coaches, he is doing his job. I remember in Year One he took criticism for not dumping off, not throwing it away, not sliding, etc. He has learned these things. I saw in another thread someone said they didn't have a problem with Carr's decision-making, but rather his quick decisions. That may be a good observation, but in reality, he has to make quicker decisions than most other QBs in the NFL.

Anyway, I hope this will stimulate some rational discussion and counterpoints. I totally agree that Carr is not where we want him to be, but neither is the team. I reiterate my earlier statement - I don't think that ANY quarterback in the NFL would have done any better if they'd been put on this team as a rookie in the same situation - Manning, Pepper, McNabb, you name it.
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Old 09-09-2005   #2
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good post. as you put, i'm one who will disagree on a couple main points, those being accuracy and decision making. those are both reasons why i'm such a big advocate for derrick armstrong and billy miller. these guys were able to compensate for those weaknesses with their abilities to corral his strengths (arguably the second strongest right arm in the nfl, and mobility), and adjust to his weaknesses by having great hands making the catch on less than perfect throws and moving in synch with carr coming out of the pocket. these resulting in less active decision making and more of a reaction based on what's infront of him, also giving him someone to throw to despite coverage because they'll get their hands around it. i'm a carr fan, and despite his obvious and possibly detrimental flaws, he's the best we've got and has the talents (once adjusted) to be a 10+ game winner.
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Old 09-09-2005   #3
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Default

One more point (your post mad eme think of it) - Carr needs to develop a sense for when to take something off that pass. He will learn touch in time, I'm sure.

I have gone back and watched most of the Texans' games over the past month or so and that is where I really decided that his accuracy is pretty darn good. Go back and watch your old DVD/tapes/whatever and you'll find far fewer instances of poor accuracy than you'd think.
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Old 09-09-2005   #4
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Bottom line...his decision making and leadership are poor. No amount of physical gifts can overcome the lack of those two things. Take that for what you will.

Last edited by Hervoyel; 09-11-2005 at 01:30 AM. Reason: Language
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Old 09-09-2005   #5
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touch is an easy weakness, i dont think anyone's going to argue that. and that falls under the umbrella of what i think the players mentioned are able to do to corral carr's strength (since they allow him to throw 120mph rockets without worry).

the accuracy point i think is easy to argue on both sides however. the difference is between "catchable" and hitting receivers in the hands mid-route. brady and manning epitomize accuracy because even i could catch their passes during a slant because they'd hit me in the hands. carr's throws are on target, but more often than not are going to require adjustment and an ability to shield defenders to make the catch. (i'm discrediting 90% of DD's catches in this scenario ... since he doesnt have a defender within 5 yards most of the time).

i have yet to even attempt to record texans games though, so instant replay is deffinately not on my side ... just going by what i've seen on the fly & recollection. if you've got games or portions possible to share please message me though.
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Old 09-09-2005   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Po
Bottom line...his decision making and leadership are piss, piss poor. No amount of physical gifts can overcome the lack of those two things. Take that for what you will.
i'm critical of everything carr does, however leadership is something that he's been perfect on so far. there isnt a player on offense that doesnt look to carr to lead them in the right direction. his idol is favre and if anything, leadership is the trait that he's demonstrated more than anything favre'ish.
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Old 09-09-2005   #7
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"accuracy - strength"

is this a joke?
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Old 09-09-2005   #8
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I'm a big fan of Carr myself... but I feel sorry for him, looks like another frustrating year, hope he stays healthy for next year.
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Old 09-09-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky13
"accuracy - strength"

is this a joke?
Nice constructive comment. He explained his opinion. Thanks for sharing your well reasoned opinion as well.
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Old 09-09-2005   #10
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Carr's biggest weakness is touch on the ball, like Farve, he throws a dart. It took Farve a few years to develop some touch on the ball to let the recievers make catches instead of darting it off their hands all the time.
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Old 09-09-2005   #11
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The simple fact is that if we got a better O-Line then Carr would probably not have as meany weaknesses. Therefore I cannot concider them his weaknesses. I can only look at his faults as his misfortunes.
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Old 09-09-2005   #12
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Carr's biggest weaknesses:

1) Weak O-line

2) Corey Bradford

3) The touch thing is a good point.

4) Lack of experience with some of the new things he and the receivers are doing on the field.

5) The timing patterns are still not right either.

The other assumed weaknesses may be true, at least partially, but cannot be proven until we at least fix numbers 1 and 2. What if they are NEVER fixed while Carr is still the QB? The answer is that we will never be able to judge him. I think Carr may leave this team in the next year or two if there is not significant improvement in the protection. I also think that this team does a really half-butt, ****** effort at game-planning for preseason games and A LOT of people are over-reacting to that.

We don't need to get rid of the ball faster. We need to hold it LONGER and hit Mathis 60 f'ing yards down field. THAT will get the 4 freaking man coverage off of AJ. Don't hold your breathe, but it WILL happen some day.

For now, maybe we can hit Gaffney 10 yds. down field--a BUNCH of times.
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Old 09-09-2005   #13
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Nice thread by eriadoc. It would be nice to see more like this one.
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Old 09-09-2005   #14
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I agree with most of your takes on Carr except decision making. I think it is neither a strength nor a weakness. At times he makes very sound decisions. At times, however, he holds onto the ball too long and that has helped attribute to a small percentage of his sacks. I think when he is overly emotional, he tends to make even more poor decisions. Otherwise, I think you hit the nail on the head.
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Old 09-09-2005   #15
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Default good post

I agree with you for the most part. Toughness is a hard thing to measure. anyone who has played sports whether it was HS, college or Pro knows theare are two flavors - physical and mental. There is no question on his physical toughness, in my book, it is the mental toughness that concerns me.

Once again this is not measureable, it is a feel type of thing that you get by watching all of the games and how a player conducts themselves in their reads, actions, verbal and non verbal communication and how other players react to that person.

I think he has it based off of his interviews, his teamamtes interviews and the litany of past situations where you just know the guy is A+ as a person. I just have not seen the total package (skills+toughness+physical atrributes) transfer to the field over a course of games. He has it, we need just need him to get on a run and experience how good he can be.
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Old 09-09-2005   #16
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Honestly, Carr is strong in most areas. The problem is, the ones that he's weak in all tie together at unfortunate times.

I see them ALL being positive EXCEPT:

A) Clock awareness - Didn't see this up there earlier. While some of this falls on the shoulders of the coaching staff, ultimately, it's the QB's responsibility to get the snap off on time. Carr will never be the audible caller that P. Manning is, but he doesn't have to be. Carr is still too easily confused by disguised coverages that he audibles into a WORSE play than the one originally called. If you don't have the time, run the play as called or call a timeout.

B) Field Vision - Once again, this isn't all Carr's fault. When you've got almost no time to throw, you tend to start taking shortcuts. Carr simply doesn't do a good job of "looking off" defenders and following his progressions. He had his "comfort level" set in the days he was running for his life every play, this has resulted in mostly short dump-off passes.

C) Pocket Presence - Carr tends to evade a rush only one way...running to his right. While that's natural for a right-hander, there's an issue if the opposing defense knows it will almost NEVER vary. This is a product (again) of his first year running for his life. Even as bad as his protection has been at times, he almost NEVER steps up into the pocket, even when such a space is present. He sees the rushers peripherally, scrambles when it isn't always necessary, and doesn't trust that the line will force them "out and around" as Pass-Protection schemes are designed to do.
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Old 09-09-2005   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disaacks3
Honestly, Carr is strong in most areas. The problem is, the ones that he's weak in all tie together at unfortunate times.

I see them ALL being positive EXCEPT:

A) Clock awareness - Didn't see this up there earlier. While some of this falls on the shoulders of the coaching staff, ultimately, it's the QB's responsibility to get the snap off on time. Carr will never be the audible caller that P. Manning is, but he doesn't have to be. Carr is still too easily confused by disguised coverages that he audibles into a WORSE play than the one originally called. If you don't have the time, run the play as called or call a timeout.

B) Field Vision - Once again, this isn't all Carr's fault. When you've got almost no time to throw, you tend to start taking shortcuts. Carr simply doesn't do a good job of "looking off" defenders and following his progressions. He had his "comfort level" set in the days he was running for his life every play, this has resulted in mostly short dump-off passes.

C) Pocket Presence - Carr tends to evade a rush only one way...running to his right. While that's natural for a right-hander, there's an issue if the opposing defense knows it will almost NEVER vary. This is a product (again) of his first year running for his life. Even as bad as his protection has been at times, he almost NEVER steps up into the pocket, even when such a space is present. He sees the rushers peripherally, scrambles when it isn't always necessary, and doesn't trust that the line will force them "out and around" as Pass-Protection schemes are designed to do.

good take
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Old 09-10-2005   #18
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"I am concerned," Carr said. "I know we can take care of it, but I would feel a lot better if we had done that tonight (Sept. 1). "It is hard to be confident when you don't see that out on the field. I need to see a prepared team with higher standards than I saw."

..."see a prepared team"...so how far can Capers bring the team in 10
days?...and "higher standards"!!! Carr is not comfortable with what he is
seeing around him and it is Capers job to straighten this out--a band aid will not work now. After 3 years and all the changes to the team, this state-
ment by our franchised QB is more than a wake-up call. Even if we lose
this game, it's going to be a reflection on Caper's abilty as a head coach on
'how' we lose. If we win, a lot of questions will 'wash' away...
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Old 09-10-2005   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc
Mobility - Strength. Aside from Vick, Pepper, and McNabb, Carr is probably the best.
You forget about McNair, Plummer, Brady (underrated mobility) Roethlisberger, and Aaron Brooks
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Old 09-10-2005   #20
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Why do you think his decison making is so poor? The guy threw 14 interceptions... by far one of the lowest totals of any starter! Granted, he only had 16 touchdowns, but DD had about 13, most of those coming form runs within 5 yards of the goal-line. If the Texans were like the Colts and wanted to pass form within the red-zone, Carr would probably have closer to 25 TD's. Also, the often used argument that he locks on AJ then dumps it off to DD is flawed. Johnson had 79 catches last season. About 15-20 of those were the little WR screen that is a pre-snap read and he is not even supposed to look at anyone else, just snap and throw. That leaves about 60 catches in 16 games, does that really seem like he is forcing it to AJ everytime?
MEanwhile, Johnson is the primary read on about half the pass plays, that means that almost half the time he is supposed to look at someone else before AJ, than dump off to DD. Gaffney ended last season with about 45 catches and 600 yds, this while not consitently starting as a #2 reciver. Should he start 16 games in a season at that pace, he would probably be closer to 65 catches and 800- 900 yds.

Does havning two recivers close to 1,000 yds seem like bad decision making to you?
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