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Old 09-04-2005   #1
keyfro
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to me this offense is wrong for carr...carr is more of a deep ball passer like kerry collins...ironic capers was the coach who drafted collins...to me our offense is set up more for a qb like ragone than carr...just my opinion...i understand why we went to it...because capers has no trust in our o-line to protect carr with 5 or 7-step drops...the one thing i've also noticed with caper's teams is that sometimes he is so set on schemes and stratigies that he makes the offense and defense so complicated that players don't play full speed...something that i believe was obvious throughout the pre-season

this isn't a bad thing...but you do have to have the right players for this system...the texans do not have those players...this is where capers is hurting himself...he is wanting younger players and it's the older players that produce in his type of schemes

anyways...that's what i think we should be doing on offense...throw it deep and throw it often...otherwise what was the point in drafting a qb number 1 overall?
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Old 09-04-2005   #2
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so who do you think we should have drafted instead of david carr
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Old 09-05-2005   #3
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Originally Posted by keyfro
the one thing i've also noticed with caper's teams is that sometimes he is so set on schemes and stratigies that he makes the offense and defense so complicated that players don't play full speed...something that i believe was obvious throughout the pre-season
Interesting point. Sometimes you can be too cute by half and wind up with a rubics cube situation. Complex does not automaticaly equate to superior. The Packers for YEARS ran a sweep that everyone knew was coming and just did it better than anyone could defend against. Sometimes it's better to do somethings well, rather than a bunch of cute things poorly even if they are not as confusing to the oposition.
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Old 09-05-2005   #4
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Old 09-05-2005   #5
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capers has no trust in our o-line to protect carr with 5 or 7-step drops
actually our pass offense relies heavily on the three AND five step drops in it's current, upgraded, form. almost all play actions i have seen are 5 step drops, and carr has had ample time to throw on both three and five step drops all pre-season. the seven step drop is what got carr in trouble so much, as my limited QB knowledge tells me, to drop back seven steps and make your reads you generally need 5-5 1/2 seconds. to do that consistently with our OL at any point in our history would mean this ( ) is happening somewhere nearby.

but giving credit where credit is due, our OL has looked good enough to be mistaken for any other line in the league thus far. if they hold up when it counts, carr could reach 4000+ yds this year...

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Old 09-05-2005   #6
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Originally Posted by edo783
The Packers for YEARS ran a sweep that everyone knew was coming and just did it better than anyone could defend against.
They still run that play. Favre says he can hear the defense yelling exactly what they are about to run, but they still get 8 yards a pop.
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Old 09-05-2005   #7
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David Carr fit the west coast offense he ran at Fresno State quite sucessfully. Palmer is best suited for a conservative drop back pocket QB that waits for patterns to develop. to Palmer's credit he has been trying to change to quicker slants (3 & 5 step drops) and underneath routes (which I'm thinking he must be saving for the regular season, particularly to Davis).

However I just don't think its Palmers style, there is a distinct rhythm to make it look effortless, he is too regimented and contrived, this is the root of many complaints concerning Carr & the Texans offense. its the overall lack of a spontaneous cohesive framework that embodies the Texans lack of continuous improvement.
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Old 09-05-2005   #8
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i believe if we had another coach our offense would not be as lame as it is. its a sad thing for capers to loose he's job over and OC like palmer but that is what is going to happen.
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Old 09-05-2005   #9
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Originally Posted by beerlover
to Palmer's credit he has been trying to change to quicker slants (3 & 5 step drops) and underneath routes (which I'm thinking he must be saving for the regular season, particularly to Davis).
i think some of that credit would have to go to david carr as well, he sat down with the coaches to help develop the "new offense" and change the audibles and calls. i think thats what i remember....
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Old 09-05-2005   #10
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Originally Posted by caddy
Boy you said it... Haven't understood what you mean. Dom is trying to build a football team. Like everybody on the same page..

spontaneous cohesive framework = teamwork
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Old 09-05-2005   #11
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Originally Posted by bigTEXan8
I don't know about you people...but was I the only one who seemed to think our offense was good last year, just that it need to be consistent? Every game I saw...at times we were able to move the ball almost like we were out there practicing. I mean...look at it this way; David Carr 3531 passy yds, DD 1000 yds rushing & 15+ tds, Dre 1000+ yds receiving...a lot of them tops in the league, so what am I missing? I just think that with a llittle consistency, we could hang with just about anyone. Yeah...Carr took a beating last year, but we needed to beef up our line. I'd like to see us play without all these krappy short wussy passes. I honestly believe Riley has strengthed our line...and he would give up fewer sacks. With a little flare added to the offense...we are in the top 5 in the NFL...but that's just a personal feeling.

On a lighter note, I think our D is playing bloody good. At least our starting D has played good. Haven't they been fairly consistent? Could somebody find the stats on opponents third-down conversion rate this preseason, because we had to have one of the best in the league. I think we need to remain extremely optomistic about this season.
Have to agree with you there, Ive been watching Victor Riley and his crew, because that is what they are going to become. They finally got competition this year and they all showed up to play, Chester Pitts is going to dominate this year what ever position he lines up. All we need is for our NEW tight ends to block and we will be on highlight reels daily. Prove me right DD, cause I know you will..
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Old 09-05-2005   #12
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Carr is good at throwing the deep ball when he has time. Mathis has wheels. so im curious why the Texans are doing the short passing game. did'nt they draft mathis too stretch the field?
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Old 09-05-2005   #13
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Carr is good at throwing the deep ball when he has time. Mathis has wheels. so im curious why the Texans are doing the short passing game. did'nt they draft mathis too stretch the field?
Mathis is too green right now (supposedly, anyway), although I think he's gonna be REALLY good at some point. The big problem there is pass blocking. Yes, they seemed a lot better during part of the Preseason, but the coaching staff probably doesn't have a whole lot of faith in them yet and I don't blame them. The blocking looked bad to me against Tampa. Everything looked bad in that game.

I would put Mathis or Gaffney or Armstrong or THOMAS or SWINTON in there ahead of Bradford right now though. Maybe they will make Gaff #2, but it would really surprise me. This administration has me really puzzled right now. Letting Swinton go was understandable, but not what I would've done. Some of this other stuff, which I won't repeat AGAIN, is just weird.

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Old 09-05-2005   #14
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I have also read mathis is not ready.

i also hope that Gaff gets the number 2 over bradford.
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Old 09-05-2005   #15
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well not a very good description on my part, simply stated by Tedec, spontaneous cohesive framework = teamwork.

now we know that football teams, similar to organizations everywhere, improve by going through an evolutionary progression as they learn, apply, adapt, and learn again.
Football is more than a physical contest, and success is more than a victory on the playing field. Success is the progression of worthy ideas and goals. Such a progression involves at least two key cerebral factors, attention to detail and an absolute commitment to perfection.
using multiple receivers in the West Coast offense is a definite must something that needs to develop more on the Texans so teams cannot isloate on Johnson. The design of the attack must include a secondary or dump off receiver along with a primary receiver. Their routes complement each other so that; versus man coverage, a clearing action is provided by one receiver for the other, and versus zone coverage, the defender must make a choice of which receiver to cover. This design increases the chance for a completion, and permits the quarterback to get rid of the ball quickly, since he does not need to wait for his primary receiver to get open. The receivers routes should be in the same general area and at varying depths so that a stretching action is made on the coverage, this should become Mathis IMO. David should be able to quickly scan from one receiver to the other, and complete the pass to the open man. He is taught that when the coverage takes away the primary receiver, he will immediately go to the secondary receiver. Throwing the ball to the secondary receiver enough times will soon condition the defense to cover him, opening up possibilities down field. The West Coast passing attack utilizes all five skill positions as pass receivers in a variety of ways when attacking the defense. By using all skill positions as receivers, the offense can attack the whole field and reduce defensive coverage into one-on-one situations. The nice thing about the offense however is that on any given pass play, a quarterback will have a variety of options, especially on the side of the field that the play is designed to go, and because of this, a receiver is usually open.
true in 2004 the Texans set club records in first downs (300), total yards (5,128), rushing yards (1,882), passing yards (3,246), completion percentage (60.7), touchdowns (37) and points (309). Johnson set team records with 79 receptions for 1,129 yards. Carr had his best season as a pro, completing 285 of 466 passes for 3,531 yards with 16 touchdowns and 14 interceptions. Running back Domanick Davis turned in his second consecutive 1,000-yard season, amassing a team-record 1,188 yards and 13 touchdowns. if this is a trend I would say its a positive one, however for whatever the reason teams have figured ways to foil this offense at least from Cleveland through pre-season, to double/tripel team Andre, stack the box & pressure Carr out of the pocket & force the Texans to run the ball.
Lets hope Domanick stays healthy, Carrs confidence returns, Mathis turns into a deep threat and Murphy becomes a more of a go to guy in the offense, that Palmer figures a better approach to spreading the ball over the field and like a campus the oganization becomes one of higher learning, understanding and teamwork.
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Old 09-05-2005   #16
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Bubbajwp...i still would have drafted carr first overall...i'd just run a different passing offense right now...i would have spent more draft picks on o-lineman in the later rounds so that right now our depth would be better than it is right now...i guess the main problem i have right now with our system is that it seems like everything we're doing is to match up against the colts...they are hopeing that carr and the recievers can get these timing routes down because they know if they don't carr will get killed by freeney everytime he drops back...riley is doing a good job right now at LT but let's face it...riley's weakness will be against speed rushers and besides peppers freeney is one of the best
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Old 09-05-2005   #17
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Old 09-05-2005   #18
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I agree. Were not playing Carrs type of game but still. Just a like a 4-3 linebacker adjusting to the 3-4 , you need to be able to "Adapt"
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Old 09-05-2005   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyfro
to me this offense is wrong for carr...carr is more of a deep ball passer like kerry collins...ironic capers was the coach who drafted collins...to me our offense is set up more for a qb like ragone than carr...just my opinion...i understand why we went to it...because capers has no trust in our o-line to protect carr with 5 or 7-step drops...the one thing i've also noticed with caper's teams is that sometimes he is so set on schemes and stratigies that he makes the offense and defense so complicated that players don't play full speed...something that i believe was obvious throughout the pre-season

this isn't a bad thing...but you do have to have the right players for this system...the texans do not have those players...this is where capers is hurting himself...he is wanting younger players and it's the older players that produce in his type of schemes

anyways...that's what i think we should be doing on offense...throw it deep and throw it often...otherwise what was the point in drafting a qb number 1 overall?

Comical
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Old 09-05-2005   #20
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i dont agree with the assertion this is a west coast offense. our running game sets up our passing game...not vice versa. (as evidenced by the choice of linemen we draft and pursue.) we have mostly better then average run blockers and average to poor pass blockers (with the exclusion of mckinney who is a sad run and pass blocker).

i've seen lots of progress in our running game and im excited about it to be honest.----and this without weigert.

our passing game at least recently has been another story. when our secondary recievers get off the line better, and start running better routes i think we'll see a drastic change. - i'd expect defenses to play a LOT of bump coverage to throw off our timeing. hopefully this opens up the deeper routes.

having watched the cowboys game now a few times i think we were a few flags and dropped passes short of being impressive. the running game was there...and i thought palmer's play calling was nice.

against tampa my biggest concern isnt carr. the timeing was off and the routes were bad...yeah i know. but carr isnt going to have a dismal game like that every week. whats got me worried is our blown assignments on the defense. recievers wide open lost in our scheme only to be found by bad opposing quarterbacks. we were torched. i dont have a lot of faith in players like faggins and sanders.

im starting to like the idea more and more of an early bye-week. it gives us a bit more time to get our act together.
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