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Old 09-04-2005   #21
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I've made my comments about Carr not being ready. I've never said I am ready to give up on him though.
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Old 09-04-2005   #22
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Not starting Carr would be a big mistake, but it doesn't bother me at all that people are on his butt right now. They love him most of the time, but Saturday he played like crap and this is what happens. I'm sure he's smart enough not to be reading message boards right now, especially since I really doubt he ever does. Sometimes athletes deserve to have fanatics screaming to fire them even though actually doing it would be incredibly unfair and totally stupid, lol.
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Old 09-04-2005   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky
Right now, Carr deserves every bit of bashing he is getting. His performance Thursday night was on par with your average HS freshman playing his first game, while having the UT defense staring at you from the other side of the ball. Hello, his QB rating was ZERO. ZERO people. He deserved to go into negative numbers, but that stat doesn't call for it, although I heard they are thinking of changing that after watching the game Thursday. He STUNK! This is his fourth year, not his first. The time for excuses is past. If he doesn't pick it up in a HUGE way the first two games, I say bench his over paid arse, and put Ragone in. I never thought I would say that, but I am tired of the excuses. I really have no words strong enough to portray what I thought of his performance on Thursday. Terrible? Nah, not strong enough. Stunk? nah. Pathetic? Getting warmer. Losersville? Horid? Nope, can't come up with it yet. Someone help me here!
I'll help you out... completely irrelevant? Regardless of what you think, that's the only truth to his performance on Thursday.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Carr is proven to be in the top half of NFL starting quarterbacks when the games actually matter. Ragone looked slightly above average against third and fourth string scrubs in meaningless exhibition games. He has been a third-stringer for almost his entire career (and still is). Benching David Carr for Dave Ragone would be about as wise as the Colts benching Peyton Manning for Jim Sorgi (or whoever their backup is now).

P.S. Those of you saying the OL is no longer an excuse - what games were you watching? I saw an OL that was as bad as any we've ever had, save the first few games of '02. I could count the amount of times Carr had "huge pockets" on one hand.
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Old 09-04-2005   #24
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"Get off CARR'S butt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

Only if he gets off his own butt...
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Old 09-04-2005   #25
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when did our pre-season record and performance start counting towards our regular season? Could somebody point that out to me.

"when did our pre-season record and performance start counting towards our regular season? Could somebody point that out to me. "

...doesn't count but --in our 1st 3yrs-- we've played the same way in
both the preseason and season

...side fact, 72% of teams did not have losing records in the preseason--
guess they don't know what the Texans know
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Old 09-04-2005   #26
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...side fact, both the Eagles and Patriots went 1-3 in the preseason last season

...side fact, last season the Titans, Buccaneers, Browns, Raiders and Cowboys finished the preseason with a 3-1 record (best in their divisions) and they all ended up last in their division
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Old 09-04-2005   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STEEL BLUE TEXANS
...side fact, both the Eagles and Patriots went 1-3 in the preseason last season

...side fact, last season the Titans, Buccaneers, Browns, Raiders and Cowboys finished the preseason with a 3-1 record (best in their divisions) and they all ended up last in their division
...last season???...is it getting re-played?
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Old 09-04-2005   #28
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Has this season played out already? Your doom and gloom attitude sure makes it seem like it has.
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Old 09-04-2005   #29
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no, I'm just ready for the season to start so the Texans can play some
'real' football--doom and gloom or rose colored glasses, some folks are
so defensive---if you believe in your team, let them do their talking on
the field
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Old 09-04-2005   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsip
if you believe in your team, let them do their talking on
the field


Well then who is your team?
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Old 09-04-2005   #31
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I'm not sure what the obsession with (W-L) record in the preseason is, but as others have pointed out that part of the preseason doesn't amount to much. What matters is how the first team offense and defense performs during those games. That being said the first team offense looked horrid in both of the last two games after looking great in the first two in limited action. The first team defense looked good at times, and not so good at other times. Many fans are disappointed in how they performed, and I am among them. However, I'm not about to say that it's indicative of how the entire season will go. It's definately a cause for concern, and it worries me but I'm not about to trash the season.

I still think that when this team is on it can be successful. When the offense and the defense are both playing the way they're capable of I have no doubt that we'll win games against tough opponets. It's all a matter of this team playing up to that level consistently. We've seen glimpses of what they can be, but until they put it all together there are going to be concerns and worries among the fans. Come Sept 11th the wins and losses matter. I, for one, still think this team is capable of going 9-7 or 10-6 if they play the way I think they're capable of, but if we get some bad breaks it could easily slip to 8-8. I know that no matter what all of us will be watching closely as our Texans face off against the Bills hoping to see our team playing the way they should.
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Old 09-04-2005   #32
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I wouldn't bash Carr. Just don't want him to make lame excuses. Just want him to say I screwed up, I can't change it, let's forget about it, and look forward to Buffalo!

Bobby 119C
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Old 09-04-2005   #33
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I want him to say, "Get off my butt!!!!!!!!!!!!," lol.
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Old 09-05-2005   #34
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It's concerning to see the manipulation of stats to back one's position on this topic.

Someone mentioned the Patriots and Eagles going 1-3 in last year's preseason, but let's examine them a little closer:

The Eagles played in three straight NFC championship games for the past three years.

The Patriots have played in 2 out of 3 AFC championship games for the past three years.

When a team is doing THAT well for a period of three straight years, which is rare in the NFL of today, you can afford to relax and lose some preseason games without getting too concerned that it will carry over to the reg season.

The Texans, on the other hand, cannot be trusted (as history is proving) to just "turn the light switch on" at a moment's notice.

Wishful thinking, rose-colored glasses, and pridefully defending this team against the rightful criticism it is receiving right now is NOT as persuasive as the fact that was shown by the TV commentators during one of our preseason games: THE VAST MAJORITY OF SUPER BOWL WINNING TEAMS HAD WINNING RECORDS IN THEIR RESPECTIVE PRESEASON GAMES.

Yes, you can allow for some statistical flukes (last year's Eagles and Patriots who went 1-3 in preseason)...but please don't try to use or manipulate that stat when the overall trend is showing that good teams don't tank in the preseason and then miraculously make a comeback in the reg season.

All of this said, please understand that the people who are "bashing" this team or this team's QB right now are not evil people out to get some of you and to make some of you mad for no reason. Heck, we're not even really bashing the team. All we're doing is asking some of you to at least be a little objective and to drop the homer-ish attitude for just a few days. This team is a good team with good players (on the field and off) but they ain't playing worth a plug nickel right now, and nobody's justification ("It's just preseason!" or "It doesn't count!") is going to do much to persuade me that we're an "up-and-coming" contender right now for anything resembling the playoffs.

I've had a guy private message me and call me "A Waste" and tell me to leave town over this stuff. Nice, huh? I left this message board for an entire year awhile back and I am just now coming back because so many people back then were personally ripping each other over good, thought-provoking arguments. There was just simply no room for disagreement on any topic, and you got your skull caved in on this board if you didn't run with a certain pack of wolves. Now, there's moderators who have helped to cut it down, but the private message is basically a sneak attack nuclear bomb that got dropped on me in the past few days--It was used by someone who knew they couldn't get away with that sort of trash within the regular board postings.

So let me just say that the accusations of "You're not a real fan!" against some of the posters are just very unfortunate.

This team has looked disgraceful in at least 2 out of the 4 preseason games, and I would rather have seen those two disgraceful games be against our first two preseason opponents than our last two opponents, as it was.

If we don't carry over our bad play to the Bills, I'll be happy. I won't be thrilled, though, because it's just typical of the "light switch" philosophy that has become the standard operating procedure for this team. History is history, and we got plenty of it in the area of preseason performance as it relates to regular season play. Yes, we've improved our wins each year...but anything less than 8-8 (and actually, it should be at least 9-7) is all I need to say the Texans have to make a combination of changes in personnel and overall strategy, etc. Not bashing the team, but simply saying that I am a fan that has lost the honeymoon-esque feelins and I desire to see this team make that "next step" even if it means cutting some ties with well-loved players and/or coaches. The overall Texans organization has produced an above-average team, and I'm thankful...but we've got the talent to at least challenge for a wild card. Anything less than challenging for the wild card should not be tolerated by the majority of fans.

Here's to our first winning regular season.
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Old 09-05-2005   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976
If we don't carry over our bad play to the Bills, I'll be happy. I won't be thrilled, though, because it's just typical of the "light switch" philosophy that has become the standard operating procedure for this team.
Heads you win, tails they lose. If the Texans poor preseason performance doesn't carry over, you won't even consider the possibility that you were wrong to place so much emphasis on these practice games?

Some teams place an emphasis on winning preseason games. Do they all win in the regular season? No. Some teams do not place an emphasis on winning preseason games. Do they all lose in the regular season? No.

The vast majority of Super Bowl Champs win in the preseason? OK. So I guess this means the Texans aren't going to win the Super Bowl. But I'll venture that even if the Texans had won all of their preseason games, they weren't going to win the Super Bowl this season. It wouldn't have even meant that they were a lock for the playoffs. So again, why place this much emphasis on these practice games?

Regarding the PM's you've received, anyone can forward PM's if they feel a member has crossed the line. Certainly, you're given more leeway in a PM to make a point. But PM's aren't made available just to enable attacks on fellow members.
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Old 09-05-2005   #36
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A board full of biased my way or the highway folks is a lead balloon . If you can't speek your mind , then its not a board but a communist newspaper . As a consumer who buys eight dollar beers I have a right to voice a complaint . If you settle for being OK then we'll get OK (The Cubs ).
The Texans make me nervous , I don't see an improvement to get me excited . It may be preseason but playing Dallas should get their juices flowing . I don't believe a young team can just turn it on when they need to .
As far as Carr goes , this will be his fourth year . He is also in his mid twenties he is not a kid . Are we going to treat him like Steve Francis and call him a young player and just needs to learn for five years or is it OK to say He should be further along . If its not some of Carr's problem then who's is it .
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Old 09-05-2005   #37
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So again, why place this much emphasis on these practice games?
let me explain it to you. Because in the NFL the overall difference in talent between a starter and most 2nd and sometimes even 3rd string players isn't that big of a difference. Granted there is some difference, but the drop off from starter to 2nd string is almost negligable. So in a preseason game like the last one, when the cuts are already down to 65 players, the talent level isn't some monumental difference. So if our starters can't get any offense generated against the other teams first string OR second string, it is pretty much a 'given' that they are going to have problems in the real season. It is called logical thinking. They aren't going to walk off the field, go into the locker room, and take off their STUPID FOOTBALL PLAYER suit and put on their NFL STARTER suit, like Spiderman.

THAT is why there is so much emphasis on the final 2 preseason, excuse me practice games.

As for people being on Carr's butt, he DESERVED it. When you are getting paid the amount of money he is, and he messed up in the manner that he did, he EARNED it even. Carr isn't above being critiqued by the fans or the coach's. And I would like to think that Carr himself at least understands that when you play like a STUPID FOOTBALL PLAYER, you deserve to be called one.
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Old 09-05-2005   #38
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If Carr does'nt turn the corner this year then what . He was the first pick in the entire draft .

A great player makes the team around him better , I don't see that yet . Lord I apoligize for not calling Carr great and help the starving pigmies in New Guinea . Point is you can only use an expansion label for so long . David needs to buckle down and be a NFL QB and weed out the distractions .

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Old 09-05-2005   #39
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Regarding the PM's you've received, anyone can forward PM's if they feel a member has crossed the line. Certainly, you're given more leeway in a PM to make a point. But PM's aren't made available just to enable attacks on fellow members.
I've banned members for vulgar or insulting PM's....and will continue to. If anyone is getting vile, vulgar, or PM's with personal insults in them please forward them to me.
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Old 09-05-2005   #40
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Originally Posted by thegr8fan
let me explain it to you. Because in the NFL the overall difference in talent between a starter and most 2nd and sometimes even 3rd string players isn't that big of a difference. Granted there is some difference, but the drop off from starter to 2nd string is almost negligable. So in a preseason game like the last one, when the cuts are already down to 65 players, the talent level isn't some monumental difference. So if our starters can't get any offense generated against the other teams first string OR second string, it is pretty much a 'given' that they are going to have problems in the real season. It is called logical thinking. They aren't going to walk off the field, go into the locker room, and take off their STUPID FOOTBALL PLAYER suit and put on their NFL STARTER suit, like Spiderman.

THAT is why there is so much emphasis on the final 2 preseason, excuse me practice games.

As for people being on Carr's butt, he DESERVED it. When you are getting paid the amount of money he is, and he messed up in the manner that he did, he EARNED it even. Carr isn't above being critiqued by the fans or the coach's. And I would like to think that Carr himself at least understands that when you play like a STUPID FOOTBALL PLAYER, you deserve to be called one.
No, but they can walk off the field, go into the locker room and start running their real plans, their real protection schemes and playing their star running back more than a quarter. If our starters can't get any offense generated against the opposition's first and second string... it's completely irrelevant because we don't have all of our players playing. More importantly, however, is the fact that the Texans did not care about winning and losing and did not come even close to using the plays and schemes they are going to use in the regular seson.

It's only "logical thinking" if the Texans were taking the same motivation to the preseason that they do to the regular season. It's only "logical thinking" if the Texans were using the same players and schemes in the preseason that they do in the regular season. Neither is true, so there's absolutely zero correlation.
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