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Old 08-31-2005   #21
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Originally Posted by The Preacher
DC is just starting to scratch the surface of his talent and success level. Three years running around the way he has for a team just getting off the ground will lay the framework for what I believe should be a great career barring injury. To judge him on what he has done so far seems highly premature since most qb's struggle their first few years in the league (Troy aikman and Peyton Manning ring a bell). I'm not saying he'll necessarily succeed the way they have but you get the point. Same with the Texans in general you don't put together a playoff team overnight with some fa's and mostly league newcomers. The fun is just getting started hold on for what is about to be an incredible ride!!
Umm, you might want to rethink the comparison to Peyton Manning.
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Old 08-31-2005   #22
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did anyone notice the time Carr had though!! maybe he isnt used to all the time he had to throw and thus threw him off alot
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Old 08-31-2005   #23
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I can only add this about David.

As a Cowboys fan I'd be turning cartwheels if the Cowboys had a guy like him as QB. And maybe I could get Bill to do some too!

Be thankful for David!
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Old 08-31-2005   #24
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Look at the important Qb statistics. Compare Carr's 3rd season with any of the top QBs in the NFL and he compares very favorably. Here are some stats that tell the story:

yards per attempt: David Carr 7.6
Int per attempt: David Carr 0.03


All other statistics have built-in fallacies. For instance, someone in the west coast system should have a higher comp % than someone who throws the ball downfield a lot. Also, some teams prefer to throw the ball inside the 5 yard line, so that boosts the QBs TD numbers a great deal. McNabb's statistics are a great example of that.

Anyway, if you compare Carr's 3rd season with Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Mike Vick, Peyton Manning, Trent Green, Chad Pennington, Dante Culpepper, Bret Favre, Tom Brady, in their 3rd season..

Carr (7.6)ranks 2nd behind Peyton Manning (7.7)in Y/att. Nobody else is even close to those two.

Carr ranks 4th in fewest INT/att:
1. Brady
2. McNabb
3. Manning

So, among the top Qbs in today's NFL, when Carr went back to pass he was more successful than any of those QBs except for Peyton Manning, and, at the same time, was in the top half of that group in taking care of the ball... When you factor in that Manning, Brady, Culpepper, McNabb all had a much stronger supporting cast- I think it indicates that he is at least on an excellent developmental track.
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Old 08-31-2005   #25
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this cat is gonna get better because he is always getting real close to giving the pat's the L. plus manning is a replica of marino, whoa that cat doesnt have a ring does he? vince lombardi gave carr to the city of houston. by the way he sits on the left hand side to the man above.
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Old 08-31-2005   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy
Look at the important Qb statistics. Compare Carr's 3rd season with any of the top QBs in the NFL and he compares very favorably. Here are some stats that tell the story:

yards per attempt: David Carr 7.6
Int per attempt: David Carr 0.03


All other statistics have built-in fallacies. For instance, someone in the west coast system should have a higher comp % than someone who throws the ball downfield a lot. Also, some teams prefer to throw the ball inside the 5 yard line, so that boosts the QBs TD numbers a great deal. McNabb's statistics are a great example of that.

Anyway, if you compare Carr's 3rd season with Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Mike Vick, Peyton Manning, Trent Green, Chad Pennington, Dante Culpepper, Bret Favre, Tom Brady, in their 3rd season..

Carr (7.6)ranks 2nd behind Peyton Manning (7.7)in Y/att. Nobody else is even close to those two.

Carr ranks 4th in fewest INT/att:
1. Brady
2. McNabb
3. Manning

So, among the top Qbs in today's NFL, when Carr went back to pass he was more successful than any of those QBs except for Peyton Manning, and, at the same time, was in the top half of that group in taking care of the ball... When you factor in that Manning, Brady, Culpepper, McNabb all had a much stronger supporting cast- I think it indicates that he is at least on an excellent developmental track.
Okay, I understand being a fan, but the statement "when Carr went back to pass he was more successful than any of those Qbs except for Peyton Manning" causes you to lose any credibility. I don't care how you and KC Joyner attempt to manipulate stats and randomly decside that these stats matter, but these don't, you can't make Carr into a top 5 QB in the league. Put down the calculator and the pen, and watch the football game.
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Old 08-31-2005   #27
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Couldn't get in touch with Chicken Little, but Foghorn Leghorn called with a critique of David Carr's performance:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foghorn Leghorn
David Carr, I say that David Carr is not a QB. No, no, no, he's doing it all wrong. It's all mental, son, mental. That kid's about as sharp as a bowling ball. Just look, I say just look at the boy calling audibles. I don't think this kid's got all his marbles. Shakes his head when he means yes and nods when he means no. Carr, I say Carr running this offense causes more confusion than a mouse at a burlesque show. And dalemurphy, are ya listening boy? Two nuthins is nuthin. That's mathematics son. You can argue with me but you can't argue with figures. Two half nuthins is a whole nuthin. Ol' Charley & Dom try to tell me he's a franchise, I say franchise QB. That's a joke, son. Now go away Carr, you're bothering me.
There you have it from one of the gr8 football analysts Chicken Tech ever produced. Who could argue with that logic? Maybe Carr & the coaches are having a poor preseason. But at least the Chicken Littles & Foghorn Leghorns have this board in mid-season form. That's a funny, boy.
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Old 08-31-2005   #28
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Regardless of which side of the debate your on, that's funny right there.
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Old 08-31-2005   #29
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Default Its a message board so I voice my opinion

The thread is about Carr and I have never been a fan since we drafted him. What I would not give to go back in a time machine with Cass and not select Boselli (yes I hoped it would work at the time) and most importantly take the freak named Julius Peppers who helped his team on the path to a Super Bowl.

I am an optimistic Texans fans through and through and give Cass a positive grade over the years, but I cannot help to believe that if Cass went in a different direction with these two selections we would be dancing.

Just imagine Peppers on our defense and a Dilfer-esque QB to go with the other terrific picks we have made. Hindsight is 20-20 and stinks. Note to self, when you become a GM and you have the opportunity of selecting a good Qb or a top notch freak defensive player, go with the D.

Humbly venting because it feels better than watcing all of the horrible news on the coast. Please give to a reputable charity if you have the means for the folks on the coast.

I am off the soab box, go Texans!
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Old 08-31-2005   #30
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I think that Carr is a better than average QB, but he is not in the class of Manning, Brady or McNabb. One stat, the QB Rating, is the measuring stick for QB's has Carr rated at 16th in the league. I agree with that. He throws as many TD's as Int's so far in his early career. He is on his upside however so I don't understand why people are down on him. Not all QB's are the same, some take longer and starting with an expansion team that has a huge revolving door, i'd give him a little more time to develope. Statistically he is on the rise.
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Old 09-01-2005   #31
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- crappy offensive line.
- conservative offense.

if peyton manning played for us, he would not have developed into the offensive play calling juggernaut that he is. he would have fared a little better than heath shuler. carr may not be as talented as manning, but i dont think that he is just a servicable QB. carr has obviously developed a gun shy attitude, but who can blame him? our coaches sign OLs that are good run blockers but not good pass blockers. (wade, mckinney, wiegert, riley, etc.) the only reason that ware started last year was because he was a massive run blocker.

"we want to put the 5 most talented OL on the field at the same time"

im not a football coach, but IMO, an OL should be comprised of the most cohesive unit (see denver's ol in the 90's amongst others)

to trully guage carr, we have to put a winning team around him and then judge him, not bury him after a preseason game.

this is just a humble opinion of a die hard texans fan, go ahead and flame you myopians...
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Old 09-01-2005   #32
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Didnt Vick go as far as to say he came out early so as NOT to be drafted in Carr's place by the Texans ?

Anyhow , I agree with the others here who say Carr is on the upside .... Its quite unfair for us to compare his career with any of the other listed QB's . Each and every one save Couch came to a team with an established O-line and recievers . Carr had NODDA to work with year one , the 79 sacks should tell be an indication . They still won 4 games and Carr played every snap . Year two he gets AJ and DD but still has a garbage O-line. Year three they were no better at protecting him and still had no second threat at reciever .... You are comparing apples and oranges .
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Old 09-01-2005   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Statistically, Carr and Couch are pretty close their first three years. They both started for expansion teams with bad lines.

Tim Couch 39 Td's in his first 3 years. David Carr 34

Tim Couch 188 yards per game started his first 3 years. David Carr 189 yards per game started.

Tim Couch 75 lifetime passer rating. David Carr 72.5
That's true to some extent, but Carr has been progressing alot better than Couch ever did.

QB Ratings:
Carr: 62.8, 69.5, 83.5
Couch:73.2, 77.3, 73.1, 76.8, 77.6

Carr has gone up 20.7, while Couch never went past 4.4 points, and hovered in the 70's for 5 straight years.

Completion %

Carr: 52.5, 56.3, 61.2
Couch:55.9, 63.7, 59.9, 61.6, 59.1

Carr Progressed every year up 8.7 % points, while Couch was inconsistent, never really progressed.

Couch threw 43 Interceptions in 38 games while Carr has thrown 42 Interceptions in 44 games. Carr throws less interceptions.

Carr's 1st year he threw 15 interceptions and threw 14 his 3rd year, Couch threw 13 Interceptions in 14 games in his 1st year while throwing 21 Interceptions his 3rd year. Couch has been inconsistent, while Carr has atleast shown some improvement by year 3.

Last edited by ATX; 09-01-2005 at 02:25 AM.
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Old 09-01-2005   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
Is anyone worried about David Carr's performance after the cowgirls game, two picks again. either he looks really good one week or really bad, I hope this is not sign of things to come of David Carr, the News talks more about David's Hair than his ability to play the game. On the other hand David's other 2002 draft partner did not fair so well this week Joey Harrington. Please someone tell me he is going to be great and not a first round dropout like Tim Couch of the Cleveland Browns 1999 1st draft. I hope and pray that he is our franchise QB like Peyton is to the Colts.
Honestly, David is running out of time before he will be considered a bust. He has the receivers for the most part and a running game this year may define his future to be sure. Dallas did pressure Carr but not enough for all the mental errors and poor passes in the game.

If you take off your glasses you have to ask this question because it is both fair and realistic IMO.
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Old 09-01-2005   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYDESTROY
Honestly, David is running out of time before he will be considered a bust. He has the receivers for the most part and a running game this year may define his future to be sure. Dallas did pressure Carr but not enough for all the mental errors and poor passes in the game.

If you take off your glasses you have to ask this question because it is both fair and realistic IMO.

Im probably as far from a as you can get on this board , Im highly critical of many of the players and personel decisions . BUT its impossible to guage Carr at this point .
He's had AJ and the rejects for the past two seasons ....just a buncha rejects the first season . And he's NEVER had a decent O-line . He's done as well or better with less than many of the QB's everyone compares him to and these comparisons are totally un-fair . These players came into established teams with for the most part proven NFL players around them . Ive said it before Ill say it again , Its apples and oranges . You just cant compare the two .
This season they are changing their whole offensive philosophy to try and protect him better . There will be an extensive transition period . Come mid-season I expect most of these questions to be put to rest .... pending the continued good play from the O-line .
I dont see this season as being make or break for him . It is important that he continues to show progress , but make or break its not .
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Old 09-01-2005   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corrosion
Im probably as far from a as you can get on this board , Im highly critical of many of the players and personel decisions . BUT its impossible to guage Carr at this point .
He's had AJ and the rejects for the past two seasons ....just a buncha rejects the first season . And he's NEVER had a decent O-line . He's done as well or better with less than many of the QB's everyone compares him to and these comparisons are totally un-fair . These players came into established teams with for the most part proven NFL players around them . Ive said it before Ill say it again , Its apples and oranges . You just cant compare the two .
This season they are changing their whole offensive philosophy to try and protect him better . There will be an extensive transition period . Come mid-season I expect most of these questions to be put to rest .... pending the continued good play from the O-line .
I dont see this season as being make or break for him . It is important that he continues to show progress , but make or break its not .


I understand supporting cast does matter, however, to what extent and how many years can you actually wait for perfect circumstances? How many years of progress does a starting first round caliber QB need to show that he can guide this team to even the play-offs?

David has to demonstrate that he can get it done this year or he may not have much longer at the helm IMO. The third year is usually the time a draft pick needs to show something..this needs to be his year if Houston is wise.
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Old 09-01-2005   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYDESTROY
I understand supporting cast does matter, however, to what extent and how many years can you actually wait for perfect circumstances? How many years of progress does a starting first round caliber QB need to show that he can guide this team to even the play-offs?

David has to demonstrate that he can get it done this year or he may not have much longer at the helm IMO. The third year is usually the time a draft pick needs to show something..this needs to be his year if Houston is wise.

If we werent discussing an expansion team I MAY agree. But consider that aside from AJ neither of the recievers the Texans have started the past 3 seasons would start on ANY other NFL team . Bradford was the 4th reciever in Green Bay .... Gaffeny was a rookie . The running game kept no one honest .
Two of those three seasons the Texans lead the league in sacks . And at tis juncture they are at least 3 players away from being TRUE contenders I just cant come to the belief that Carr is on a short leash nor should he be .

Put any of the other QB's in the NFL in his position and most if not all would have worse stats much less won / loss records.
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Old 09-01-2005   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SESupergenius
I think that Carr is a better than average QB, but he is not in the class of Manning, Brady or McNabb. One stat, the QB Rating, is the measuring stick for QB's has Carr rated at 16th in the league. I agree with that. He throws as many TD's as Int's so far in his early career. He is on his upside however so I don't understand why people are down on him. Not all QB's are the same, some take longer and starting with an expansion team that has a huge revolving door, i'd give him a little more time to develope. Statistically he is on the rise.
If QB rating is an accurate measuring stick then Neil Lomax, Brad Johnson, Randal Cunningham, Mark Brunell, Jake Delhomme are all better QBs than Troy Aikman. QB rating places too much emphasis on TD passes. TD passes have more to do with the system you play in than with the success/ability of the QB...

Oh Yeah, and Jeff Garcia would be a top 5 all-time QB.
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Old 09-01-2005   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan
Okay, I understand being a fan, but the statement "when Carr went back to pass he was more successful than any of those Qbs except for Peyton Manning" causes you to lose any credibility. I don't care how you and KC Joyner attempt to manipulate stats and randomly decside that these stats matter, but these don't, you can't make Carr into a top 5 QB in the league. Put down the calculator and the pen, and watch the football game.

First of all, this has nothing to do with KC Joyner. Second, I'm comparing Carr's third season with each of these other QBs third seasons. Of Course Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are better Qbs now, but I'm arguing that Carr is on a similar developmental path as the NFL's elite QBs took.
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Old 09-01-2005   #40
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Default David Carr

Let's Not Forget The Bottom Line As Well Carr Only Had One Break Out Season At Fresno, Face It Most Of Us Never Even Heard About Carr Until He Was Drafted. I Guess Only Time Will Tell, With Him I Hope He Is Truely A Diamond In The Ruff, And Leads Our Team To The Playoff's In The Near Future.
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