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Old 08-29-2005   #1
Corrosion
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Default No cause for concern ? .....yeah right !

Ive pretty much predicted another 7-9 or worse record this year .... Why you ask ... thats pretty simple .


First of all you CUT two of your leaders and arguably most productive players on the devensive side of the ball in J.Sharper and Aaron Glenn not to mention the release of J.Foreman who was a starter although borderline . Sharper is a Starter on almost every team in the NFL . Glenn may have lost a step but his leadership and cover ability will be sorely missed . To give up two quality players like that for ZERO COMPENSATION is just not good business . Salary Cap or no ... :brickwall
The players they plugged into those positions are un-proven if not questionable thenselves in Greenwood and Buchannon .

Moved another player to a new position in K.Wong . Yes i realize he has played inside before but that was in the Vikings 4-3 . There will be a transition period for Wong no doubt .

The Offense has three Glaring weaknesses ....

First the O-Line and a particular weakness at LT where we had S.Wand last season and now have V.Riley who has played better than Wand ..... While Riley has played decent and is an upgrade he isnt the cornerstone player needed to protect Carr's blindside . The O-line is still sub par and lacks depth . Carr will likely lead the league again in times sacked .

Many on this board including myself have said the Texans lack a multi-dimensional TE . Bruener ,likely the starter come opening day , was known for his blocking when w/ the Steelers hasnt done much of that since coming to the Texans and his pass catching abilities are .... Poor to say the least . Billy Miller couldnt block for a high school team . Matt Murphy has been hot and cold so far . Joppru isnt listed on the Texans depth chart and is injuried for a thrid straight season . Looks like he'll end up on the PuP list again or get cut .

At the Skill positions its Carr , A.J , D.D. and a buncha no-bodies . The Texans need a second reciever to compliment A.J.
Bradford has had three seasons to show he could be that player .... it was evident when no other NFL team would sign him that he isnt that player . The Texans re-signed him as more of an insurance policy if you ask me .... Or the lack of a better free agent option at the position within their price range .
Gaffeny has been injury plagued this pre-season and hasnt had opportunity to show if he can improve upon last year .
For all those who think Mathis is the savior here .... he was drafted purely on Potential , this kid is Raw with a Capitol R.A.W. His college team didnt even have a reciever's coach ....He will contribute on special teams but dont look for him to see much action at reciever until mid-season if not later .
Swinton has been a bright spot so far at reciever and returning kicks .... although he may not get much time at reciever .

While on the subject of the skill positions ..... SOMEONE PLEASE CUT T.HOLLINGS , we have seen ENOUGH !! Cut your losses and keep someone who will make good use of a roster spot !

There have been a few bright spots for the Texans this off-season but i just dont think the team has improved itself , in fact they may have taken a step backwards and their record will show it in the coming season . 6-10 or 7-9 isnt the end of the world but for most of us fans it isnt what we expect from this orginization . We expect sound decisions and progress ....


Flame away , i know its coming !


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Old 08-29-2005   #2
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"The Offense has three Glaring weaknesses ...."

The Offense has one glaring weakness and his name is Chris Palmer...
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Old 08-29-2005   #3
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I think you're being optimistic. I'm saying we go 4 and 12 or 5 and 11...we won't be able to score enough once again. :brickwall

Defense will be exhausted by the 4th qtr of just about every game. :brickwall

I see us going 1 and 5 in the division w/our win coming against the Titans.

Buffalo will set the tempo on our Mickey Mouse offense and they are gonna swarm all over that joke of a passing "attack". :brickwall

Bye bye Capers...Bye bye Palmer...top 10 pick once again.



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Old 08-29-2005   #4
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*sigh*

why did you take all that time to write this drivel? seriously.. you should be spending more time reading what knowledgable fans have to say, not forming flawed opinions off of whatever snippets of information you catch here and there.

I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed.. but ill point out a few flaws i caught.


Quote:
First of all you CUT two of your leaders and arguably most productive players on the devensive side of the ball in J.Sharper and Aaron Glenn
It was time to move on. We had NO threats in our front seven last season. No one that the other team had to take special consideration of. Sharper is a good LB, but he was not, and is not, a great LB. He was above average, but thats about it.

Why release him? do you recall all of the TEs and slot receivers chewing up our defense last year? remember us not being able to stop ANYONE on 3rd downs? That was Sharper and Foreman. They were simply TOO SLOW and WEAK in coverage. We needed speed.. and we needed youth on defense.. so thats what we got.

As for us not getting anything for them.. well we tried to get something but no one was willing to pay..ANYTHING.. so we had to release them. Why continue to hold onto a player that isnt producing, simply because you feel he may be worth something to someone? thank god we were more interested in WINNING than making a good looking trade for Sharper and Glenn.

Oh.. and the same goes for Glenn. Above average.. but he is in the decline. Hes old.. we needed someone to replace him very soon. We had the opportunity to get that player..and so we did. Glenn was given a choice.. he chose to leave. End of story.

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First the O-Line and a particular weakness at LT where we had S.Wand last season and now have V.Riley who has played better than Wand ..... While Riley has played decent and is an upgrade he isnt the cornerstone player needed to protect Carr's blindside
why? becuase we didnt draft him in the first round? Because his name isnt Orlando Pace? Have you seen Carr getting too much pressure? have you seen Carr getting sacked? I havent.. so what exactly is your arguement?

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Carr will likely lead the league again in times sacked
yah i know.. and we will probably all die too. And a comet will hit houston. and the bubonic plague will spread across america. and the oceans will overflow and god will point and laugh at us. wow it sucks to be alive.


Quote:
Many on this board including myself have said the Texans lack a multi-dimensional TE
The steelers have been playing without a quality TE since the early 90s. They seem to have gotten by just fine. Matter of fact.. ALOT of teams in the NFL seem to get by just fine without a superstar TE. A TE is not essential to a good offense.


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At the Skill positions its Carr , A.J , D.D. and a buncha no-bodies
why? cause you havent seen their name mentioned on Sportscenter? We have a VERY talented group of young WRs. We are going to have a very hard time picking which ones to keep and who to cut.

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While on the subject of the skill positions ..... SOMEONE PLEASE CUT T.HOLLINGS , we have seen ENOUGH !! Cut your losses and keep someone who will make good use of a roster spot
I agree.





So.. there are your flames.
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Old 08-29-2005   #5
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Yeah somebody cut hollings before he tears his A.c.l. falling off the pine. Hes worthless.
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Old 08-29-2005   #6
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Grid,
I couldn't have said it better myself. Good post.
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Old 08-29-2005   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corrosion
Ive pretty much predicted another 7-9 or worse record this year ....
i say 9-7

Quote:
First of all you CUT two of your leaders and arguably most productive players on the devensive side of the ball in J.Sharper and Aaron Glenn not to mention the release of J.Foreman who was a starter although borderline . Sharper is a Starter on almost every team in the NFL . Glenn may have lost a step but his leadership and cover ability will be sorely missed . To give up two quality players like that for ZERO COMPENSATION is just not good business . Salary Cap or no ... :brickwall
leaders?? sharper demanded a leader and yet he was not ready for that role himself. sharper would not be a starter on nearly every team in the nfl - it sure took him a long time to get signed on with another team. if you cant make a trade the best thing to do is bite the bullet and cut them. they deserved at least that time to be able to get with another team rather than us keep them on the payroll through TC while we knew they would not stay here

Quote:
The players they plugged into those positions are un-proven if not questionable thenselves in Greenwood and Buchannon.
greenwood and p buch are here because they are younger and faster. they make our overall defense stronger. the defense IMO will be able to take more chances and create turnovers. i like greenwood and he is a guy we can count on for coverage and speed and a sure tackle. p buch was in a bad situation in oakland, id save judgements until the end of the season to say his aquisition was questionable also. to me, its like dillon in NE from cincy. i think. they also have more freedom with their contracts.

Quote:
While Riley has played decent and is an upgrade he isnt the cornerstone player needed to protect Carr's blindside. The O-line is still sub par and lacks depth . Carr will likely lead the league again in times sacked .
most teams have solid LTs who are not the cornerstones of their respective Oline. carr leading the league in sacks? i thought the changed the whole offense because of that? he will get sacked but i dont think it will be near the league lead.

Quote:
Many on this board including myself have said the Texans lack a multi-dimensional TE . Bruener ,likely the starter come opening day , was known for his blocking when w/ the Steelers hasnt done much of that since coming to the Texans and his pass catching abilities are .... Poor to say the least . Billy Miller couldnt block for a high school team . Matt Murphy has been hot and cold so far . Joppru isnt listed on the Texans depth chart and is injuried for a thrid straight season . Looks like he'll end up on the PuP list again or get cut .
for the billionth time joppru will not get cut. i dont think i have seen enough of murphy to call him hot and cold. i have seen bruener block, and block pretty good because that is what he does.

well since you spoke alot more than i quoted i will give my brief comments on the rest of your post. bradford will be the #2 for the season, gaffney will contribute as a posession receiver (like he always has done), hollings indeed needs to go, mathis is raw but that does not mean he cant contribute (but you also felt he might contribute more as the season progresses which i do believe will happen), we did not take a step backwards

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocd
I think you're being optimistic. I'm saying we go 4 and 12 or 5 and 11...we won't be able to score enough once again. :brickwall

Defense will be exhausted by the 4th qtr of just about every game. :brickwall

I see us going 1 and 5 in the division w/our win coming against the Titans.

Buffalo will set the tempo on our Mickey Mouse offense and they are gonna swarm all over that joke of a passing "attack". :brickwall

Bye bye Capers...Bye bye Palmer...top 10 pick once again.
are you a fan????
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Old 08-29-2005   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
*sigh*

why did you take all that time to write this drivel? seriously.. you should be spending more time reading what knowledgable fans have to say, not forming flawed opinions off of whatever snippets of information you catch here and there.

I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed.. but ill point out a few flaws i caught.




It was time to move on. We had NO threats in our front seven last season. No one that the other team had to take special consideration of. Sharper is a good LB, but he was not, and is not, a great LB. He was above average, but thats about it.
If it was time to move on, why didnt we replace foreman with a big name linebacker instead of cutting sharper and replacing him with someone who might do a little better but probably wont? If you have no threats in the front seven why would you cut the best player of the front seven and try to improve on that position? Their are six other weaker players but we leave them alone?
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Old 08-29-2005   #9
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ok.. Here we go.. folks.. We dropped Sharper and Foreman. Why you ask. We wanted to increase our speed and get younger players who will mature to the position. Sharper is a excellent player, but he is starting to slow and his cap is starting to increase. He didnt want a short contract, and we didnt want to sign him to a long term contract. So he was released.

Foreman. I am sorry folks, but Foreman was not the awesome player you all are making him out to be. He was serviceable, that is all. We were looking at adding someone who could come in and make a difference (in our coaches mind, that is Morlon Greenwood). Now if he is awesome or not, that makes no difference. He was faster, younger and a better player then Foreman in our teams eyes.

To address Glenn..
I feel Glenn was a awesome part of the team, but he is also getting older. His experience was invaluable, but he was starting to lose a step and slow down. Is he a great player, yes... but he IS slowing down. We wanted younger to replace him.

If you wanna fume about something, your fuming about the wrong thing. Fume about getting NOTHING for these players... I would join you. Glenn is worth from some team at LEAST a third and Foreman at least a 6th or 5th. Sharper would be worth at least a 2nd.
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Old 08-29-2005   #10
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Quote:
First of all you CUT two of your leaders and arguably most productive players on the devensive side of the ball in J.Sharper and Aaron Glenn not to mention the release of J.Foreman who was a starter although borderline . Sharper is a Starter on almost every team in the NFL . Glenn may have lost a step but his leadership and cover ability will be sorely missed .
Glenn is the #3 CB in Dallas, Foreman is on the 2nd team defense in Oakland, and from what I have heard about Sharper is his knee injury could be much more serious than was thought...You cannot keep football players based on the sole purpose of leadership, you have to have players who can perform.
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Old 08-29-2005   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComstockLode
If it was time to move on, why didnt we replace foreman with a big name linebacker instead of cutting sharper and replacing him with someone who might do a little better but probably wont?
Ummm, they did replace Foreman.

Quote:
If you have no threats in the front seven why would you cut the best player of the front seven and try to improve on that position? Their are six other weaker players but we leave them alone?
Because Sharper wasn't better than the six other players last year and because of the cap situation. 1st two years I was a huge Sharper proponent but last year his play dropped off dramatically. That coupled with his contract made him the most expendible position in the front 7. Walker & Smith weren't touchable because of their contracts. Payne was and is a better player at this point. Wong is a decided upgrade over Foreman and Babin wasn't going to lose his job after having a solid rookie performance.

And PS to everyone who talks about leadership from everyone above 26 yrs old--where does all this presumed leadership come from? When did you ever see Sharper on the field or on the sideline calling the LB's or defense together, standing on the sideline talking to Babin or Peek like he was explaining something, or getting folks hyped up at all? Sharper was a very good player in 2002 and 2003 but the idea that every vet who leaves the team is a good leader who is going to be missed is a joke.
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Old 08-29-2005   #12
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Morency looked good. I saw potential there.
Carr was having a bad night.
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Old 08-29-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dime
If you wanna fume about something, your fuming about the wrong thing. Fume about getting NOTHING for these players... I would join you. Glenn is worth from some team at LEAST a third and Foreman at least a 6th or 5th. Sharper would be worth at least a 2nd.
We tried to trade all of them and couldnt get squat. They were aging players on the last years of their careers. Glenn was having problems staying healthy and Foremen had a huge injury. When you see an old player with season ending injuries its hard to trade to much for him. And Sharper is to much of a liability in coverage to be worth a 2nd rounder. I think they did the right thing with the way they handled it.
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Old 08-29-2005   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dime
If you wanna fume about something, your fuming about the wrong thing. Fume about getting NOTHING for these players... I would join you. Glenn is worth from some team at LEAST a third and Foreman at least a 6th or 5th. Sharper would be worth at least a 2nd.
Foreman plain and simple wasn't very good. Can he hang in the NFL as a backup or expansion team starter?--sure, but that isn't what teams use draft picks for that is what they scan the waiver wire for. Giving Sharper and Glenn's play the credit it is due, they are worth some draft pick. The problem was a trade involves taking on their current contract and they weren't worth their contracts with the Texans. That is clearly demonstrated by the fact that they both signed contracts worth a third or less of their Texans' contract. No team was going to pay a draft pick for the privilege of paying over market price on their cap.
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Old 08-29-2005   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBull17
We tried to trade all of them and couldnt get squat. They were aging players on the last years of their careers. Glenn was having problems staying healthy and Foremen had a huge injury. When you see an old player with season ending injuries its hard to trade to much for him. And Sharper is to much of a liability in coverage to be worth a 2nd rounder. I think they did the right thing with the way they handled it.
I'd have to agree, the Texans handled these situations with class & not only did what was best for themselves but for the individual players as well.

Its difficult to compare the NFL to MLB or NBA players movement because of the differences in their respect collective bargining agreements. for instance the NFL trade deadline is a non event, whereas in MLB or NBA even if big trades cannot be resolved at least their discussed. Its very difficult to make trades in the NFL, most active periods are at the very beginning of free agency & the NFL draft. the NFL has a much harder cap than NBA and MLB they have only a luxury tax.
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Old 08-29-2005   #16
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I would have liked to have seen us keep Glenn and our draft picks and get Justin Miller or some other db and let Glenn groom him like he did with Robinson. Then we could have used our 2nd or additional 3rd on the OL or somewhere else. I know all about how Casserly/Capers think that Buchanon is better than anything they could have drafted but I am not sold on that. Keeping Glenn and getting a young db is much better than getting an underachieving db and losing Glenn. I will admit though that if Buchanon can be coached into being what he was once thought by many to have the potential to be out of college Hoke is the man to do it.
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Old 08-29-2005   #17
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They did the trade because o-line was thin this year and thats why they traded down for picks next year. O-Line is gonna be massive and we get the help there we need. PB will make a differense this year, he brings us home run capabilities on D, which we never had befor, and all teams need. The last 4-5 super bowl teams had players who can get you points on any givin play and i love it.

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Old 08-29-2005   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
you should be spending more time reading what knowledgable fans have to say,
You mean fans who think this team has been mistake free . They arent mistake free in their personel decisions ... far from it .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
Sharper is a good LB, but he was not, and is not, a great LB. He was above average, but thats about it.
Absolutely correct , he is NOT a superstar but IS an Above average player , you re-enforce my point .
I think part of the reason Sharper was released is because he called out the coaching staff last season after a particularly bad loss (see the browns game) . Other than that it was a financial move . If you say he was in decline ... i beg to differ , his stats for 2002 almost completely mirror those of 2004 in which he lead the league in SOLO tackles and was eigth in total tackles .
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/4250
By the way , Sharper is listed as the Seahawks starter at ROLB this season.

Glenns stats from 2002 and 2004 are almost a mirror image , http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/3505 .
I will agree that they needed to find his eventual replacement but he was released because of his salary . Had the Texans kept him they would have arguably the best secondary in the AFC and possibly the NFL .

If they wanted to re-vamp the defense Sharper wasnt the place to start , they should have started with those players who WERENT producing . Foreman and Gary Walker would have been a Very Good place to start .In their defense they did draft T.Johnson who could be Walkers replacement very soon .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
why? becuase we didnt draft him in the first round? Because his name isnt Orlando Pace?
Rliey may make me eat crow .... and for Carr's sake I hope he does .
On the subject of Orlando Pace .... that would have been a Terrible move on the part of the Texans giving up two #1's for someone who would not be a LONG TERM solution to their problems at LT , Riley is probably not a long term solution either and before training camp was listed behind the pathetic S.Wand on the depth chart .
The fact that they have had to change their whole passing philosophy based on the fact the O-line cant protect Carr should raise RED FLAGS all around .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
yah i know.. and we will probably all die too. And a comet will hit houston. and the bubonic plague will spread across america. and the oceans will overflow and god will point and laugh at us. wow it sucks to be alive.
I thought we were talking Football , not the end of civilization as we know it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
The steelers have been playing without a quality TE since the early 90s.
So you agree Bruener isnt a quality TE ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
Matter of fact.. ALOT of teams in the NFL seem to get by just fine without a superstar TE. A TE is not essential to a good offense.
I did not say they need a Superstar TE , only one servicable in both facets of the positions requirements . One that can Catch the ball and block .... im not asking for Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates , just a servicable player .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
why? cause you havent seen their name mentioned on Sportscenter? We have a VERY talented group of young WRs. We are going to have a very hard time picking which ones to keep and who to cut.
When are the Texans EVER on sports center ?

I agree that they do have some talented young recievers and that deciding who to keep will be a TOUGH decision ..... But we will probably see the same Bradford and Gaffeny come opening day .... Both of whom have been outplayed during pre-season by Swinton , Mathis and S.Thomas .
Thomas having been the most consistant and complete reciever on the roster thus far .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccdude730
leaders?? sharper demanded a leader and yet he was not ready for that role himself.
Sharper was pointing fingers at the coaching staff ...Probably the reason he is no longer with the team .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComstockLode
If you have no threats in the front seven why would you cut the best player of the front seven and try to improve on that position? Their are six other weaker players but we leave them alone?
My point exactly . Sharper was the most productive player on the D other than maybe Dunta Robinson .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dime
If you wanna fume about something, your fuming about the wrong thing. Fume about getting NOTHING for these players... I would join you. Glenn is worth from some team at LEAST a third and Foreman at least a 6th or 5th. Sharper would be worth at least a 2nd.
This was part of my original post .... they got ZERO Compensation for these players . I think the reason they got no compensation was that Every GM in the league knew that the Texans would release these players eventually (especially in the case of Sharper based on his statements about the coaching staff after the Browns game) .... why pay for something you can get for free .
I think Foreman had Zero value considering he is a borderline starter and was injured .

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Giving Sharper and Glenn's play the credit it is due, they are worth some draft pick. The problem was a trade involves taking on their current contract and they weren't worth their contracts with the Texans. That is clearly demonstrated by the fact that they both signed contracts worth a third or less of their Texans' contract. No team was going to pay a draft pick for the privilege of paying over market price on their cap.
You have a solid point there ... As i stated before they were cost cutting moves by the Texans . The problem i have here is that they didnt use the extra funds to upgrade the team in any other area .

Quote:
Originally Posted by bckey
I would have liked to have seen us keep Glenn and our draft picks and get Justin Miller or some other db and let Glenn groom him like he did with Robinson. Then we could have used our 2nd or additional 3rd on the OL or somewhere else. I know all about how Casserly/Capers think that Buchanon is better than anything they could have drafted but I am not sold on that. Keeping Glenn and getting a young db is much better than getting an underachieving db and losing Glenn. I will admit though that if Buchanon can be coached into being what he was once thought by many to have the potential to be out of college Hoke is the man to do it.

I agree with your alternative completely .... and on the subject of Buchanon , If Hoke cant make him a solid DB then it just cant be done .

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Old 08-29-2005   #19
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Quote:
You mean fans who think this team has been mistake free . They arent mistake free in their personel decisions ... far from it
no i mean fans who are knowledgable enough to watch the preseason game and not be concerned with the fact that we blew a pass, or got intercepted.. because they can still see improvements in key areas. Its not rose colored glasses.. its seeing the whole picture.. not just the highlight reel.

this team looks alot better.

and BTW.. some of the most knowledgable fans on this board have their "whines" too. If im not mistaken.. I think even Vinny is "anti-Carr" to a certain degree.

Quote:
think part of the reason Sharper was released is because he called out the coaching staff last season after a particularly bad loss (see the browns game)
I think youre looking for drama when there isnt any. I think Sharper was cut for exactly why it was said he was cut. He was slow.. he was old.. he was weak in coverage..and it just wasnt a fit for the defense we wanted to run.

Capers is a defensive genius. You may disagree with that.. but from everything I have heard.. Capers knows what he is doing when it comes to defense. If Capers is not able to run an effective defense because we dont have enough speed at ILB.. then we need to replace our ILBs. and we did.

If Sharpers tackle stats are the big issue.... well. Sharper had 137 last year and 41 assists. Greenwood had 108 last year, and 42 assists. Not too shabby. a difference of about 2 tackles per game. and Greenwood gives us the speed we want. Plus.. in our defense our ILBs get more tackle opportunities than Greenwood was getting in Miami. So.. time will tell.. but I think Greenwood is gonna work out just fine for us.

Quote:
The fact that they have had to change their whole passing philosophy based on the fact the O-line cant protect Carr should raise RED FLAGS all around
yah..we dont have the best pass defending Oline in the league.. course.. 30 other teams dont have the best pass defending Oline in the league either. The blame for Carr getting sacked so many times last year can be laid at the feet of our Oline, as well as the protection schemes we were using. So we changed our schemes, and we designed plays to get the ball out of Carrs hands faster. We are fixing the problem.. working with what we have. thats a good thing.

Quote:
So you agree Bruener isnt a quality TE ?
yes I do. he is average.

Quote:
I did not say they need a Superstar TE , only one servicable in both facets of the positions requirements . One that can Catch the ball and block .... im not asking for Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates , just a servicable player .
well we have "servicable" tight ends. They CAN catch the ball.. and they CAN block.. they just arent spectacular at either.

Quote:
But we will probably see the same Bradford and Gaffeny come opening day .... Both of whom have been outplayed during pre-season by Swinton , Mathis and S.Thomas .
Gaffney has been injured.. so you cant say he has been outplayed. Bradford though, i agree. I wish we would just let him go and promote Armstrong or Swinton or Mathis or Thomas.. SOMEONE.. Bradford has never impressed me and id like to see one of our other guys get the chance to show his stuff.
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Old 08-29-2005   #20
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it is kind of unfair to judge gaffney. but id like mathis up there somehow, taking bradford's or gaffney's spot. mathis can fly.
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