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Old 08-30-2005   #21
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Personally, I think the idea that we are a "ball control" team gets over-played. We run a lot and, when we do pass, it's a lot of short passes and dump-offs (mostly). What choice have we had? Our O-line has been great at run blocking and crud for pass blocking for the sum total of its existence. Plus, we have DD who runs well and sucks up dump-off passes for positive yardage. I think they're trying to build an all around well-balanced team, but it's still in the making because some pieces have inevitably not worked out--like Seth Wand and Benny Joppru getting hurt every time he walks onto a field. It LOOKS like our O-line will be improved this year. Maybe we'll see more scoring and less leaning on the defense to keep it close. I can't help hoping.

Oh, and Carr is going to be just fine. Johnson looked foolish against Dallas too, but I sure don't see people calling him a waisted pick.
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Old 08-30-2005   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bckey
Well then IMHO we wasted our 2002 #1 draft pick.
Let's see:

Terry Bradshaw (pittsburgh wasted a high pick on him, too?)
John Elway (denver/Baltimore wasted a high pick on him?)
Troy Aikman (wasted pick?)
Steve McNair (wasted pick?)
Ben Rothlisburger (wasted pick?)
Phil Simms (wasted pick?)
Bob Griese (wasted pick?)
Mike Vick (wasted pick?)

above is a list off the top of my head of high first round draft picks (QBs) who had success mainly in run dominated systems.


Dan Marino
Jim Kelly
Dan Fouts
Dante Culpepper
Donovan McNabb
Peyton Manning
Warren Moon (highly recruited from CFL)


above is a list of high first round draft picks (QBs) who had success in pass first systems. Joe Montana and Steve Young actually played in a very balanced offense but I couldn't in good faith call it run dominated. So, I'm leaving them off both lists
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Old 08-30-2005   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy
Let's see:

Terry Bradshaw (pittsburgh wasted a high pick on him, too?)
John Elway (denver/Baltimore wasted a high pick on him?)
Troy Aikman (wasted pick?)
Steve McNair (wasted pick?)
Ben Rothlisburger (wasted pick?)
Phil Simms (wasted pick?)
Bob Griese (wasted pick?)
Mike Vick (wasted pick?)

above is a list off the top of my head of high first round draft picks (QBs) who had success mainly in run dominated systems.


Dan Marino
Jim Kelly
Dan Fouts
Dante Culpepper
Donovan McNabb
Peyton Manning
Warren Moon (highly recruited from CFL)


above is a list of high first round draft picks (QBs) who had success in pass first systems. Joe Montana and Steve Young actually played in a very balanced offense but I couldn't in good faith call it run dominated. So, I'm leaving them off both lists
common thread---all of those players were on teams that put a priority
on scoring points and they all had good passing stats/running stats--
winning teams, so what exactly is your point??
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Old 08-30-2005   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsip
common thread---all of those players were on teams that put a priority
on scoring points and they all had good passing stats/running stats--
winning teams, so what exactly is your point??

My point is that teams that are run-dominate can make very good use of quarterbacks as well. Not only does history show that a balanced or run-based gameplan is usually superior in the NFL, but also quarterbacks are just as important and valuable in those systems.

Troy Aikman never threw more than 23 Tds in one season yet he was a vital piece to the three superbowls, he was the number one overall pick, he'll soon be in the hall of fame, and I don't believe he was a wasted pick. The previous assertion was that if we're going to be a running team then we wasted our pick on David Carr.
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Old 08-30-2005   #25
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Further comparison between Carr and Aikman:

Aikman's 3rd year: 7.6 yards per attempt, 11 TDs, 10 ints... in 12 games.
Carr's 3rd year: 7.6 yards per attempt, 16 TDs, 14 ints... in 16 games.

The key to Carr's value isn't whether he throws for 4500 yards and 30tds, it is whether he is respected by the opposing defense, can convert 3rd downs, make plays when he has the opportunity, and make consistantly good decisions.
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Old 08-30-2005   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy
The key to Carr's value isn't whether he throws for 4500 yards and 30tds, it is whether he is respected by the opposing defense, can convert 3rd downs, make plays when he has the opportunity, and make consistantly good decisions.

I couldnt have said it better myself
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Old 08-30-2005   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy
Further comparison between Carr and Aikman:

Aikman's 3rd year: 7.6 yards per attempt, 11 TDs, 10 ints... in 12 games.
Carr's 3rd year: 7.6 yards per attempt, 16 TDs, 14 ints... in 16 games.

The key to Carr's value isn't whether he throws for 4500 yards and 30tds, it is whether he is respected by the opposing defense, can convert 3rd downs, make plays when he has the opportunity, and make consistantly good decisions.
This team's passing offense disappeared the last half of 2004, something
no team can be expected to win from. Who's fault? Yes, we need a lot
from Carr--the QBs you mentioned all had great supporting cast, meaning
Carr obviously can not do it by himself.

Too, I don't agree with the concept of limiting our options down to clock
control and defense alone---we don't want to be predictable. The last 2
Super Bowls have been 'shootouts,' with each team pulling out all stops
to win. No, we don't have to pass for a zillion yards or light up the season
with 100 tds but-and I believe this is important (all the QB's you mention
could do this)-when needed to win, we've got to be able to find ways to
score.
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Old 08-30-2005   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bckey
Well then IMHO we wasted our 2002 #1 draft pick.
Congratulations for making what is possibly the silliest post I've ever read...
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Our LB corps is a dumpster fire.
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Old 08-30-2005   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsip
The last 2
Super Bowls have been 'shootouts,' with each team pulling out all stops
to win. No, we don't have to pass for a zillion yards or light up the season
with 100 tds but-and I believe this is important (all the QB's you mention
could do this)-when needed to win, we've got to be able to find ways to
score.
24-21 is a shoot out?
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Old 08-30-2005   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm
Congratulations for making what is possibly the silliest post I've ever read...
It was a joke about only needing 3 points. I've been a Carr supporter since day one. Lighten up. Everybody on this particular bb seems to be ready to slam anyone they perceive to be against their own beliefs.
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Old 08-30-2005   #31
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well on the bright side of things, I will enjoy this picture I found at nfl.com for a while...

just look at bledsoes face
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Old 08-30-2005   #32
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I am going to go along with the people who are urging the fact that its PRE-season. We are not going to show anything until regular season. At least nothing that will really detail how are season will go. You wont see much from the starters. The only people you will see doing there best and giving there all is the rookies and vets who are struggling for position. The buffalo game will be the measuring stick for our season IMO.
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Old 08-30-2005   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon
Yes, PRE-season. Nuttin' counts. But I am a little concerned (and maybe it isn't warranted) that we are scoring field goals and no TD's. I'd like to see some Texans in the end zone. I agree, though, let's wait before we get concerned too much. Buffalo will be the measuring stick.
I dissagree I don't think one game will be a measuring stick. I think the first 4 games will tell you where we are at as a team.
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Old 08-30-2005   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capster67
I know I may be an exception, but my motto is always strive for excellence: preseason, regular season, post season. I will never understand folks who think we can go through the motions and feel okay about a losing record (preseason or regular season) at any time. If we don't estalish a winning identity now (preseason) I have little confidence that we will in the regular season. Right now this team has the look of a 5-11 team.
Here is the problem. If you truely strive for excellence in the preseason you actually make it more difficult to achieve excellence in the regular season because of injuries(players are more likely to get injured at the beginning of the season), plus you give your regular season opponents some good game film to gameplan off of.

Regular season is about not getting hurt and evaluating individuals.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. The coaches act like they are trying to win but trust me they don't give a crap. The coaches actually overplay how much they care about preseason results because people are paying to attend the games.

So relax and enjoy the show. This is going to be our best season yet.
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Old 08-30-2005   #35
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Well to me the organization is kind of worried also. You can hear it in Casserly's voice when he talks to the announcers in the second half.
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Old 08-30-2005   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBC_Justin
Here is the problem. If you truely strive for excellence in the preseason you actually make it more difficult to achieve excellence in the regular season because of injuries(players are more likely to get injured at the beginning of the season), plus you give your regular season opponents some good game film to gameplan off of.

I still don't understand why people think that in preseason you don't show any plays because teams will be able to gameplan against you. If that thinking was true then you could never put your offense on the field in regular season because the team you play next week would have good game film of you to gameplan off of. If anything we run alot of basic plays to evaluate players.
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Old 08-30-2005   #37
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I just don't think we show everything in the book during preseason. Why give Buffalo an advantage by showing everything we got. When reg season starts it's a different story, you want to use more plays because you want to win. You can't help if other teams see that and gameplan against it.
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Old 08-30-2005   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBull17
24-21 is a shoot out?
OK, let me spell it out for you--both teams never quit trying to score in
this game vs 'sitting on the ball.' There were 45 1st downs, 6 Tds, and
700 yds of offense. Certainly, turnovers were a factor against the Eagles-
4 vs 1 for the Pats. Penalties were not a major issue, below 100yds combined
for both teams.

This was definitely not a 'you don't score, we don't score game.' But,
humor yourself and call it what you want---I'm not so bored that I'll make
a 'big' deal out of your choice/opinion.
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Old 08-31-2005   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsip
OK, let me spell it out for you--both teams never quit trying to score in
this game vs 'sitting on the ball.' There were 45 1st downs, 6 Tds, and
700 yds of offense. Certainly, turnovers were a factor against the Eagles-
4 vs 1 for the Pats. Penalties were not a major issue, below 100yds combined
for both teams.

This was definitely not a 'you don't score, we don't score game.' But,
humor yourself and call it what you want---I'm not so bored that I'll make
a 'big' deal out of your choice/opinion.
If you have 45 first downs and only 6 tds Then you ARE slowing down the tempo and trying to sit on the ball. The amount of yards is irrelevant. It wasnt Colts v Chiefs throwing to the endzone every three plays, it was line up and ram it down your throats until you fall over football. Do I need to spell it out some more?
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Old 09-01-2005   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy
Further comparison between Carr and Aikman:

Aikman's 3rd year: 7.6 yards per attempt, 11 TDs, 10 ints... in 12 games.
Carr's 3rd year: 7.6 yards per attempt, 16 TDs, 14 ints... in 16 games.

The key to Carr's value isn't whether he throws for 4500 yards and 30tds, it is whether he is respected by the opposing defense, can convert 3rd downs, make plays when he has the opportunity, and make consistantly good decisions.
I agree but leadership and accuracy were two of Aikman's key traits as well.
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