Why can't we get a better pass rush? - Houston Texans Message Board & Forum

Jay · 08-23-2005

I want to get other people's opinion of why we can't get a better rush on the opponent's quarterback. Is it:

1) 3-4 defense - basically it's our 3 d-linemen against their 5 o-linemen, when we don't rush a linebacker or safety.

2) d-line - older players who can't muscle their way past the opposition.

3) outside linebackers - Peek and Babin aren't skilled enough yet to apply the needed pressure quick enough

I tend to think to think it is our 3-4 defense, with with a little of the others thrown in. The fastest way from point A to point B is a straight line, so it would seem like we need a 4 man front. Our defense seems to get shreded continually, especially when we play zone defense and I think it may be time for a change.

F-minus67 · 08-23-2005

If I remember correctly, Steve Foley was asked why he did so well in the chargers 3-4 and not in the Texans and he said it was because the Texans zone blitzed more than just doing regulars blitz.

TheOgre · 08-23-2005

It isn't the 3-4 defense. Pittsburgh has run it for a long time and they don't have any problems getting to the QB. I think it has been our personnel in the front seven. The changes we made were supposed to improve that, but we won't know until the regular season.

El Tejano · 08-23-2005

I think right now we run alot of our base defense and we have done a much better job putting pressure on the QB. I can't wait to see what our real blitz packages can do now.

dalemurphy · 08-23-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Tejano

I think right now we run alot of our base defense and we have done a much better job putting pressure on the QB. I can't wait to see what our real blitz packages can do now.

Agreed. Look at what Dallas did last night. They got pressure, but it was because they were running all kinds of exotic blitz packages. There is no doubt that when Peek is told to get to the QB, he will often make an impact. So, I don't need to see it in a preseason game. Walker, Payne, and TJ all look active and aren't getting pushed around. There is an added dimension now with Wong in the middle. My guess is that we'll be closer to 40 sacks this year than to 25.

However, if we can't hit Bledsoe on Saturday then I'll be worried. After all, who doesn't get shots on him.

NoBullTexan · 08-23-2005

Whereas Dallas was showing it's whole blitz package, IMO, it was for sure, we weren't. We were just doing our old plain vanilla, looking at individuals, that we have been doing for the first two games.

Capers has said the first units will play well into the 3rd quarter against Dallas, and that he would start to put in the blitz packages. Guess we wait until this weekend to really see what we can do.

rmartin65 · 08-23-2005

I think the Texans can end up with a really good pass rush this year. Babin is now a second year knowing more than last year. Peek has shown explosivness in tc. and they have good depth with anderson and pettway.

nunusguy · 08-23-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoBullTexan

Whereas Dallas was showing it's whole blitz package, IMO, it was for sure, we weren't. We were just doing our old plain vanilla, looking at individuals, that we have been doing for the first two games.
Capers has said the first units will play well into the 3rd quarter against Dallas, and that he would start to put in the blitz packages. Guess we wait until this weekend to really see what we can do.

Vanilla is good in PS, but I think they will open it up a bit in Irving Saturday
night, but not the big show because that's for 9/11 and the rook. I'm
confidant they will throw some exotic combinations at the oppositions this
fall now that they got some real speed at LB, but a blitzing D always runs the risk of getting burnt bigtime by a savy QB - thats the downside for a blitzing
team.

08-23-2005

It seems the Texans were more in a read and react mode than blitzing. I don't agree with Capers waiting until the last preseasons games to get practice at doing what they should be doing in the regular season, it gives that much less of time to evaluate and correct problems when we actually do blitz. I mean sure we are letting everyone see what we are doing, but gee, they can go back and look at 3 years of film for that. They should open up everything from the get go and let them gain experience and critique to correct errors

titan hater · 08-23-2005

Don't sweat the small stuff. You don't game plan for the first two preseason games...you evaluate individual performances. The 2nd two is when most coaching staffs start to game plan. But, this is only done on a minimal basis. The real game plan happens on Sept 11th. I believe JP Loshman is in for a rude awakening....

Corrosion · 08-23-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmartin65

I think the Texans can end up with a really good pass rush this year. Babin is now a second year knowing more than last year. Peek has shown explosivness in tc. and they have good depth with anderson and pettway.

Peek looks lost unless its 3rd and long ..... Too bad every play isnt 3rd and long . This is a make or break year for him . I doubt he is the starter at mid season .

Babin hasnt shown all the explosivness that he was hyped to have when drafted but he holds the edge and doesnt look totally lost in coverage ... he may be a year or two away .

**infantrycak** · 08-23-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Agreed. Look at what Dallas did last night. They got pressure, but it was because they were running all kinds of exotic blitz packages.

Something odd was going on last night in addition because there were several times when Cowboy OLB's came in completely unchecked. The commentators said something about it on one occasion--Walter Jones took on a DE and the OLB was just sprinting free to the QB, no RB, TE or anything. I'd love to see Peek or Babin get a few opportunities like that

TheOgre · 08-23-2005

I am really expecting more "exotic" play calls defensively this season. I think we are a lot closer to having the personnel we want on defense than we are on offense.

Marcus · 08-23-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

However, if we can't hit Bledsoe on Saturday then I'll be worried.

Yeah, well don't say anything about it, or everyone will stomp on you for joining the Chicken Little Brigade.

The Preacher · 08-23-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Agreed. Look at what Dallas did last night. They got pressure, but it was because they were running all kinds of exotic blitz packages.

That and Demarcus Ware looked like the next coming of LT. I am surprised he doesn't have his own thread on here. Apparently we're so envious he's a cowboy that it has been ignored or we're just plain sick he's a cowboy!

I can't remember seeing a guy single handedly change a game like that on nearly every possession.

BGRICK · 08-23-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Tejano

I think right now we run alot of our base defense and we have done a much better job putting pressure on the QB. I can't wait to see what our real blitz packages can do now.

Crank_It_Up · 08-23-2005

[quote=The Preacher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

...That and Demarcus Ware looked like the next coming of LT. I am surprised he doesn't have his own thread on here. Apparently we're so envious he's a cowboy that it has been ignored or we're just plain sick he's a cowboy!

I can't remember seeing a guy single handedly change a game like that on nearly every possession.

He'll be on a first name basis with David Carr pretty soon.

**infantrycak** · 08-23-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Preacher

That and Demarcus Ware looked like the next coming of LT. I am surprised he doesn't have his own thread on here. Apparently we're so envious he's a cowboy that it has been ignored or we're just plain sick he's a cowboy!

I can't remember seeing a guy single handedly change a game like that on nearly every possession.

Try looking in the NFL section and you will see him being discussed.

Hervoyel · 08-23-2005

Does anyone in here remember 2002? That defense was put together in one off-season from mostly veterans (some really bad veterans here and there) and I believe it did quite well all things considered. Now, I realize the loss of Jeff Posey was a lot to overcome (some small sarcasm in that sentence) but since that first year our defense has scared nobody.

I don't concern myself much with 2003 since the defense basically did a "Bataan Death March" through the season and by the last game we were starting guys we found eating out of dumpsters on the D-Line. 2004 was a surprise to me though. We had some guys hurt but we didn't generate much pressure anywhere. Certainly nothing like we did in 2002.

I think the problem the Texans fixed this off-season was the right problem. Our defense was slow in the linebacker department. People can talk about Seth Payne and Gary Walker losing a step all they want but guys, Seth and Gary don't need to be quick. They need to be strong. To be more specific they need to be scary as hell, throw guys out of the way strong. Two out of the three down linemen must demand a double team for this defense to work. The third one doesn't have to do this but it would help. He at least needs to be quick enough or skillfull enough to occupy his man.

That's the sum of it. The line is good to go, it's the linebackers that let us down last season. Babin was a rookie and IMO Wong will never, in a million years become the sack machine we need out there. He just doesn't have it in him and he should have been an inside linebacker here since the day he showed up. Before this season is done he'll look awesome in there. Greenwood will be good too but the guys who our defense will live and die over are Babin and Peek. They have to get it done or our secondary is going to look terrible.

Preseason isn't exactly a good time to see how our linebackers are going to blitz. They just don't do it much and even the 2002 defense didn't get any pressure in the preseason. You could say that was because they were still getting to know one another and were new but some of it was simply that Capers doesn't show anything early. Ever.

I'll start worrying when this continues into the regular season. IF it continues into the regular season. I don't expect it to and I think we're going to look better on D as the year progresses. By the last four games if everyone is healthy we'll be playing our best D of the season.

Newly · 08-23-2005

Capers seems to put in a new blitz scheme as the season progresses. The defense seemed to improve last year as the season wore on. I don't recall getting much pressure on the qb any of the first two or three games. Later on though, the rush was much better, even bringing Robinson from the corner against Manning. I hope that Capers brings more different packages earlier in the season, which is one of the advantages of playing a 3-4. You should be able to blitz anyone at any time and catch the offense unprepared. Peek and Babin will have to step up and improve this year whic I think that they will. A healthy Payne, Walker and Smith (TJ also} will make their job easier in getting to the qb

08-23-2005	#1
Jay Rookie Join Date: Sep 2004 Age: 48 Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	Why can't we get a better pass rush? I want to get other people's opinion of why we can't get a better rush on the opponent's quarterback. Is it: 1) 3-4 defense - basically it's our 3 d-linemen against their 5 o-linemen, when we don't rush a linebacker or safety. 2) d-line - older players who can't muscle their way past the opposition. 3) outside linebackers - Peek and Babin aren't skilled enough yet to apply the needed pressure quick enough I tend to think to think it is our 3-4 defense, with with a little of the others thrown in. The fastest way from point A to point B is a straight line, so it would seem like we need a 4 man front. Our defense seems to get shreded continually, especially when we play zone defense and I think it may be time for a change.

08-23-2005	#2
F-minus67 Hall of Fame Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Middletown,CT Age: 26 Posts: 1,070 Rep Power: 10	If I remember correctly, Steve Foley was asked why he did so well in the chargers 3-4 and not in the Texans and he said it was because the Texans zone blitzed more than just doing regulars blitz. __________________ "Democracy is not for the people." - Judge Dredd

08-23-2005	#6
NoBullTexan Veteran Join Date: May 2004 Location: Jersey Village Age: 76 Posts: 225 Rep Power: 10	Whereas Dallas was showing it's whole blitz package, IMO, it was for sure, we weren't. We were just doing our old plain vanilla, looking at individuals, that we have been doing for the first two games. Capers has said the first units will play well into the 3rd quarter against Dallas, and that he would start to put in the blitz packages. Guess we wait until this weekend to really see what we can do. __________________ NoBullTexan

08-23-2005	#19
Hervoyel The Right Track Join Date: Apr 2004 Age: 47 Posts: 12,872 Rep Power: 58358	Does anyone in here remember 2002? That defense was put together in one off-season from mostly veterans (some really bad veterans here and there) and I believe it did quite well all things considered. Now, I realize the loss of Jeff Posey was a lot to overcome (some small sarcasm in that sentence) but since that first year our defense has scared nobody. I don't concern myself much with 2003 since the defense basically did a "Bataan Death March" through the season and by the last game we were starting guys we found eating out of dumpsters on the D-Line. 2004 was a surprise to me though. We had some guys hurt but we didn't generate much pressure anywhere. Certainly nothing like we did in 2002. I think the problem the Texans fixed this off-season was the right problem. Our defense was slow in the linebacker department. People can talk about Seth Payne and Gary Walker losing a step all they want but guys, Seth and Gary don't need to be quick. They need to be strong. To be more specific they need to be scary as hell, throw guys out of the way strong. Two out of the three down linemen must demand a double team for this defense to work. The third one doesn't have to do this but it would help. He at least needs to be quick enough or skillfull enough to occupy his man. That's the sum of it. The line is good to go, it's the linebackers that let us down last season. Babin was a rookie and IMO Wong will never, in a million years become the sack machine we need out there. He just doesn't have it in him and he should have been an inside linebacker here since the day he showed up. Before this season is done he'll look awesome in there. Greenwood will be good too but the guys who our defense will live and die over are Babin and Peek. They have to get it done or our secondary is going to look terrible. Preseason isn't exactly a good time to see how our linebackers are going to blitz. They just don't do it much and even the 2002 defense didn't get any pressure in the preseason. You could say that was because they were still getting to know one another and were new but some of it was simply that Capers doesn't show anything early. Ever. I'll start worrying when this continues into the regular season. IF it continues into the regular season. I don't expect it to and I think we're going to look better on D as the year progresses. By the last four games if everyone is healthy we'll be playing our best D of the season. __________________ A wise man once said "...well at this point it's all been hashed out and you either see it or don't. Hoping for a win next week" - HTown2ATX

08-23-2005	#20
Newly Rookie Join Date: May 2004 Location: Houston Posts: 12 Rep Power: 0	Capers seems to put in a new blitz scheme as the season progresses. The defense seemed to improve last year as the season wore on. I don't recall getting much pressure on the qb any of the first two or three games. Later on though, the rush was much better, even bringing Robinson from the corner against Manning. I hope that Capers brings more different packages earlier in the season, which is one of the advantages of playing a 3-4. You should be able to blitz anyone at any time and catch the offense unprepared. Peek and Babin will have to step up and improve this year whic I think that they will. A healthy Payne, Walker and Smith (TJ also} will make their job easier in getting to the qb __________________ That's all!

08-23-2005	#3
TheOgre Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Back in the cellar again Posts: 3,739 Rep Power: 16	It isn't the 3-4 defense. Pittsburgh has run it for a long time and they don't have any problems getting to the QB. I think it has been our personnel in the front seven. The changes we made were supposed to improve that, but we won't know until the regular season.

08-23-2005	#4
El Tejano Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 9,748 Rep Power: 6842	I think right now we run alot of our base defense and we have done a much better job putting pressure on the QB. I can't wait to see what our real blitz packages can do now.

08-23-2005	#7
rmartin65 I'm Score Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 23 Posts: 7,498 Rep Power: 19221	I think the Texans can end up with a really good pass rush this year. Babin is now a second year knowing more than last year. Peek has shown explosivness in tc. and they have good depth with anderson and pettway.

08-23-2005	#9
SESupergenius Guest Posts: n/a	It seems the Texans were more in a read and react mode than blitzing. I don't agree with Capers waiting until the last preseasons games to get practice at doing what they should be doing in the regular season, it gives that much less of time to evaluate and correct problems when we actually do blitz. I mean sure we are letting everyone see what we are doing, but gee, they can go back and look at 3 years of film for that. They should open up everything from the get go and let them gain experience and critique to correct errors

08-23-2005	#10
titan hater Veteran Join Date: Feb 2005 Age: 48 Posts: 264 Rep Power: 9	Don't sweat the small stuff. You don't game plan for the first two preseason games...you evaluate individual performances. The 2nd two is when most coaching staffs start to game plan. But, this is only done on a minimal basis. The real game plan happens on Sept 11th. I believe JP Loshman is in for a rude awakening....

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