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Old 08-21-2005   #1
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Default The Morbid Thread

We talk about it all the time in relation to other threads. It always comes down to who do we fire, when, and under what conditions. So, let's just get it over with. What do you think? Casserly? Capers? Palmer? Who else?

Here's my thoughts:

Casserly stays. I don't see any reason to let him go that can't be contradicted with a better reason to let him stay. He's had some busts, but he's also had DD, Carr, Johnson, and more. Much more. Yes, the O-line is still crud, or at least hasn't proven otherwise (although I haven't seen Carr sacked lately with his little one/half step drop and fire the ball like a hot potato). This team is 3 yrs. old and had more than enough talent to have gone .500 last year.

Capers? I think he should get his five yrs. Now, granted, if we go 5-11 this year, I may change my mind.

Palmer? I've felt for some time now that if this team doesn't go 9-7 or better this year that somebody needs to go--Palmer being the most likely candidate. But, how can Palmer call anything with Wand, McKinney, and Carr laying flat on their backs? So, do we fire Casserly? I don't think so. I think all the other teams in the NFL have had many more years to pick guys like DD and Johnson and Robinson. I think the 5 year plan was never a 5 year plan. It needs to be an 8 yr. plan and that was just really hard for us to accept. I hope Carr lives long enough.
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Old 08-21-2005   #2
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I can agree with you 100%. We had some early pics that didnt pan out. It put us in a bad situation with pass protection . we need to address it with great priority if it doesnt improve this year but I dont think that getting rid of capers or casserly is the answer. IMO they are doing a good job.
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Old 08-22-2005   #3
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Alright, this may be my first post, but it is by no means my first time to the board. It seems to me that there are many Texans fans that are very pessimistic about our upcoming season. I think I have figured out why this is. It seems as though people would rather be pleasantly surprised at the Texans doing well this season, than have their bubble burst during the season that we might not make the playoffs. From the beginning, as has been stated many times, the Texans are following a five year plan. We are only entering year four, and by far we have the most talent on the roster than we have in any of the past years. Unless someone on this board has a secret life as an NFL coach, none of us are being payed to build a franchise from scratch. In the salary cap era, we obviously cannot adress every issue we have in one single offseason. Year one, we needed a franchise quarterback, year two, someone to throw to and to hand the ball off to. Year three, build a younger defense. Four, build some depth and try to let some younger players develop. Though there are some things I wish we had done during the offseason, I admit that the coaches are probably smarter than I am and know what they are doing. I think McNair is considered one of the better owners in the league, and he will stand by his five year plan, along with his five year coaches.
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Old 08-22-2005   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HJam72
We talk about it all the time in relation to other threads. It always comes down to who do we fire, when, and under what conditions. So, let's just get it over with. What do you think? Casserly? Capers? Palmer? Who else?

Here's my thoughts:

Casserly stays. I don't see any reason to let him go that can't be contradicted with a better reason to let him stay. He's had some busts, but he's also had DD, Carr, Johnson, and more. Much more. Yes, the O-line is still crud, or at least hasn't proven otherwise (although I haven't seen Carr sacked lately with his little one/half step drop and fire the ball like a hot potato). This team is 3 yrs. old and had more than enough talent to have gone .500 last year.

Capers? I think he should get his five yrs. Now, granted, if we go 5-11 this year, I may change my mind.

Palmer? I've felt for some time now that if this team doesn't go 9-7 or better this year that somebody needs to go--Palmer being the most likely candidate. But, how can Palmer call anything with Wand, McKinney, and Carr laying flat on their backs? So, do we fire Casserly? I don't think so. I think all the other teams in the NFL have had many more years to pick guys like DD and Johnson and Robinson. I think the 5 year plan was never a 5 year plan. It needs to be an 8 yr. plan and that was just really hard for us to accept. I hope Carr lives long enough.
Not here to troll or bash Cass, but u gotta realize that Carr, Johnson, and Robinson were all top 10 picks. Most people with 1/2 a brain could make those picks.
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Old 08-22-2005   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis37
Not here to troll or bash Cass, but u gotta realize that Carr, Johnson, and Robinson were all top 10 picks. Most people with 1/2 a brain could make those picks.
Also, Casserly's job is more than just drafting. Let's see how the departures of Glenn and Sharper affect the team. There could also be questions about his decision making about the O-line.
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Old 08-22-2005   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis37
Not here to troll or bash Cass, but u gotta realize that Carr, Johnson, and Robinson were all top 10 picks. Most people with 1/2 a brain could make those picks.
Remember - we very easily could have ended up with Harrington, Rogers, and what Taylor Winslow or Hall. Not as easy as it seems.
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Old 08-22-2005   #7
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Originally Posted by Davis37
Not here to troll or bash Cass, but u gotta realize that Carr, Johnson, and Robinson were all top 10 picks. Most people with 1/2 a brain could make those picks.
None of those picks were unanimously anticipated or accepted around here so IMO your statement is not correct. There were certainly people who wanted Julius Peppers in 2002. In 2003 there were tons of people who thought AJ's hands weren't good enough and we should take Terrance Newman, Dewayne Robertson, Terrell Suggs, or Jordan Gross. In 2004 Robinson would have been the top choice for maybe 20% of the people with votes going to trade up for Gallery, Taylor or Winslow or to take Tommie Harris, Wilfork, Udeze, or Will Smith. Hindsight has led more clarity to these selections than existed at the time.
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Old 08-22-2005   #8
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
None of those picks were unanimously anticipated or accepted around here so IMO your statement is not correct. There were certainly people who wanted Julius Peppers in 2002. In 2003 there were tons of people who thought AJ's hands weren't good enough and we should take Terrance Newman, Dewayne Robertson, Terrell Suggs, or Jordan Gross. In 2004 Robinson would have been the top choice for maybe 20% of the people with votes going to trade up for Gallery, Taylor or Winslow or to take Tommie Harris, Wilfork, Udeze, or Will Smith. Hindsight has led more clarity to these selections than existed at the time.
Exactly. Heck, most of the board cringed when we made the Robinson pick. Most of those guys are also stating what an 'obvious' pick it was too. oye.
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Old 08-22-2005   #9
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Originally Posted by RTP2110
Also, Casserly's job is more than just drafting. Let's see how the departures of Glenn and Sharper affect the team. There could also be questions about his decision making about the O-line.
There are many picks before the picks we have made in the first round that were bust. Rogers was picked before Johnson. Atlanta, picked a CB before we picked ours, every body in the league said to pick Harrington before Carr.
Any picks would be considered busts only if they are in the first 2 or 3 rounds. So far we only have one Bust and that is B Jebrue (sp). The texans are building the right way. Why won't you people wait until the season is over the start your bit..ing.
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Old 08-22-2005   #10
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Naw, I've been on the Official Texans message boards from the beginning and most people wanted either Carr or Peppers, most for Carr because some geniuses felt that Peppers wouldn't fit well in the 3-4 (ala... DJ ). Then the next year there was the Johnson, Rogers....or trade down debate, which was tilted more towards Johnsons (who by the way HAD hands issues and the fact that the Texans asked him to get glasses backs that up). The 3rd year was more open to interpretation as most wanted Hall until it was leaked that we were going after Robinson, but even then almost everyone had a different opinion. It really wasn't until the leak that we were more interested in Robinson that people jumped on the bandwagon.

Some peoples history of what really happend seems to be skewed just to make an argument.
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Old 08-22-2005   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Exactly. Heck, most of the board cringed when we made the Robinson pick. Most of those guys are also stating what an 'obvious' pick it was too. oye.
I was one of them. It wasnt that I didnt want Robinson. I just didnt know much about him. I focused in on select players, and not the whole spectrum.

And now Robinson was a pick anyone with half a brain could have made? Give CC some credit.
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Old 08-22-2005   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis37
Not here to troll or bash Cass, but u gotta realize that Carr, Johnson, and Robinson were all top 10 picks. Most people with 1/2 a brain could make those picks.
You gotta give Cass credit where its due for wise choices and his record is strong when he picks staight up, but I've got reservations about his judgement when he swaps picks and I still keep my eye on the players we "gave up" for Babin.
Many teams would probably swap Babin for Randy Starks straight up if given the opportunity. Starks had 4.5 sacks last year as a rookie DT and incredably is now still just 21 - 4 years younger than Babin. In addition to Starks, the Titans used picks they received in the Babin trade to draft TE Ben Troupe and LB Bo Schobel, still on the Titans roster and both with talent and potential and all players at need positions for the Texans. I think even if one of these Titans made it to the Pro Bowl, some posters here would still have
trouble admitting Cass may have lost track of parity when he made this trade. Hey, I like Jason to, but he's gonna have to have a really outstanding
career to ultimately justify the swap that brought him here.
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Old 08-22-2005   #13
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Originally Posted by nunusguy
In addition to Starks, the Titans used picks they received in the Babin trade to draft TE Ben Troupe and LB Bo Schobel, still on the Titans roster and both with talent and potential and all players at need positions for the Texans.
Bo Schobel is another 265 pound 4-3 DE and not a 3-4 DE. Starks is a 3 technique and may not be suited to a two gap system. We may could use Troupe...but he hasn't done much yet except not understand the playbook last year (didn't play much because of that) and get injured this year...he does have some great potential though.
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Old 08-22-2005   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
... We may could use Troupe...but he hasn't done much yet except not understand the playbook last year (didn't play much because of that) and get injured this year...he does have some great potential though.
Great Potential? That sounds like another tight end I know.
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Old 08-22-2005   #15
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I think BJ needs to go find a witch to remove the curse that some past girlfriend has cast upon him. That is the only explanation for what has happened the past three years.
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Old 08-22-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Bo Schobel is another 265 pound 4-3 DE and not a 3-4 DE. Starks is a 3 technique and may not be suited to a two gap system. We may could use Troupe...but he hasn't done much yet except not understand the playbook last year (didn't play much because of that) and get injured this year...he does have some great potential though.
It appears that Troupe would have been in Honolulu with others this
year had he "mastered" the Titans playbook, because he caught 33 passes as
rookie last year for the Titans while not even understanding the playbook
according to you. Yea, we could maybe use a young TE like him like in a bigtime big way.
And Starks actually had some 3-4 experience while in college which is more
than TJ or the vast majority of college downlineman have and with 4.5 sacks
had more than any of our DL - ande he to was only a rook. One can only speculate how he'd do in a 2-gap scheme - the verdict is certainly still out on TJ.
I believe Schobel was injured last year so don't know what will happen with him, but now that he's up and running this year, but Schobel is roughly the same size and diminetions as Babin who himself would be playing as a DE if drafted by a Tenn.
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Old 08-22-2005   #17
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Before the draft, nobody thought the Texans would take TJ because he was a 4-3 penetrating tackle, and the 3-4 calls for big dudes that can tie up multiple blockers, and hold the point of attack. Yet, a guy like Starks, who actually played 3-4 in College couldn't be converted? I don't remember Starks' size, maybe that is a factor.


The jury is still way out on the Babin trade and the Pbuc trade. I think these two trades will be Casserly's legacy...good or bad.

I know it's early, so I am giving both the benefit of the doubt, but I have been impressed with neither of these guys in the first two games.

Is Babin even on the field? Oh wait, that must be him on the ground, or trailing the play. And his pass rush reminds me more of rush hour on a Houston freeway. So far (again it's early) the trade rates about a D+ from me.

Pbuc was giving so much cushion the other night, he might as well have been sitting in a Lazy-Boy about 20 yards down the field. And his tackling so far? Let's just say he gives new meaning to the term "Tackling Dummy". Did anyone else see him go for the ball and totally whiff on his man. Need I remind you we gave up a 2nd and 3rd for him? Am I the only one who would rather have two good prospects and Aaron Glenn over this guy? So far, I rate this one a D+ as well.
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Old 08-22-2005   #18
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Some guys can do it...some can't. Warren Sapp is huge...but is best at the 3 technique - I don't think anyone debates that (who knows what they are talking about). Obviously the team thinks DJ can and the entire NFL passed on Starks for 70 picks...so it's not like teams were rushing to pull him off the draft board.
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Old 08-22-2005   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
It appears that Troupe would have been in Honolulu with others this
year had he "mastered" the Titans playbook, because he caught 33 passes as
rookie last year for the Titans while not even understanding the playbook
according to you.
It's not according to me. It's according to their coaches. He was slow to learn the system. You don't have to believe a word I type...but I have a long history of being pretty accurate and don't spew a lot of nonsense. Take it or leave it...but Im not making things up.
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Old 08-22-2005   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
It's not according to me. It's according to their coaches. He was slow to learn the system. You don't have to believe a word I type...but I have a long history of being pretty accurate and don't spew a lot of nonsense. Take it or leave it...but Im not making things up.
Of course you're not making these claims about Troupe up out of whole cloth,
and I didn't say that, but a good way to support your claims and remove suspisions about their validity is to provide a
link which I've done below about Troupes persformance in his rookie year.
But so far as Troupe having learning problems, you know , as many bios as
I've seen about the Texans personnel I've yet to see one of our guys with
academic credentials liek this: "graduated - M.I.T.; major - Rocket Science."
Jeez, how many of our players, including todays starters, are less than mental
giants, hardly a requirment to succeed in the NFL for most positions.
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" In 2004, Ben Troupe had the most productive season of any rookie tight end in franchise history, collecting 33 receptions for 329 yards and one touchdown. As his comfort level grew in the Titans offense, his extraordinary athleticism began to shine as he blossomed into a downfield threat with great ability to run after the catch."
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