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Old 08-19-2005   #21
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Originally Posted by Dime
This is for those who dont believe in those draftees of this year...

Letsee... Cass and comp picked... ummm

Donte Robinson - You have to admit this was a awesome pick
Jason Babin - He has done a very good job
Andre Johnson - I dont even have to say anything
David Carr - Bah... still dont need to say anything
Peek- Starting this year
Dom Davis - Diamond in the rough
Wells - Still a decent back and great ST er
need I go on... The only 2 effective 'busts' are 'Hollings' who has been hurt most of the time in his defense, and Joppru who has been hurt all the time.

This year, we picked up more winners... So please quit commenting on who we should have got when you dont have a clue what these picks will do. They have a great track record for finding talent.

Actually every team misses players in the draft. The fact is that drafting is an imperfect science. I agree it is too early to judge the new kids, but if you are insinuating that we have had a near perfect draft, I strongly disagree.



in 2002 we could have taken Andre Davis in rd 2, Brian Westbrook in rd 3, Alex Brown or Randy McMichael in rd 4

in 2003 we could have taken Boss Baily or Anquan boldin in rd 2, Jason Witten in rd 3.

So instead of Jabar Gafney in 2002 rd 2, we could have taken Andre Davis, Brian Westbrook instead of Charles Hill in 3, and I would go with Alex Brown in rd 4 instead of Wells.

In 2003, we could have taken Boss Baily in rd 2 instead off Joppru and Witten in the third instead of Dave Ragone.

Clearly if we did that our team would be very diferent then it is today. If we made the same moves, think how different the team would be. We would still have Carr under center, but we would have Brian Westbrook in the backfield. On either side of the field would be Andre David and Andre Johnson (The Dre Twins!). Jason Witten would be our TE. Our Defense would have a young Alex Brown along with Walker, and probably TJ up front. Babin and Boss Baily would be ready to pressure the QB. In the Secondary would be Dunta, PBuc, an Earl.

This of course also shows that we have not done very much in the way of helping the Oline. This is becuase there really has not been any Oline players we could have gone after in 02 and 03. Did we miss a few players? Sure, but every team does. The key is to get more good players then the other teams do.

Remember, the greatest QB of all time was not a first rd draft pick but the third. Think how many teams passed on him thrice, and others twice. All this guy ended up doing was lead San Francisco to 4 Superbowl Championships.
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Old 08-19-2005   #22
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Originally Posted by awtysst
Actually every team misses players in the draft. The fact is that drafting is an imperfect science. I agree it is too early to judge the new kids, but if you are insinuating that we have had a near perfect draft, I strongly disagree.



in 2002 we could have taken Andre Davis in rd 2, Brian Westbrook in rd 3, Alex Brown or Randy McMichael in rd 4

in 2003 we could have taken Boss Baily or Anquan boldin in rd 2, Jason Witten in rd 3.

So instead of Jabar Gafney in 2002 rd 2, we could have taken Andre Davis, Brian Westbrook instead of Charles Hill in 3, and I would go with Alex Brown in rd 4 instead of Wells.

In 2003, we could have taken Boss Baily in rd 2 instead off Joppru and Witten in the third instead of Dave Ragone.

Clearly if we did that our team would be very diferent then it is today. If we made the same moves, think how different the team would be. We would still have Carr under center, but we would have Brian Westbrook in the backfield. On either side of the field would be Andre David and Andre Johnson (The Dre Twins!). Jason Witten would be our TE. Our Defense would have a young Alex Brown along with Walker, and probably TJ up front. Babin and Boss Baily would be ready to pressure the QB. In the Secondary would be Dunta, PBuc, an Earl.

This of course also shows that we have not done very much in the way of helping the Oline. This is becuase there really has not been any Oline players we could have gone after in 02 and 03. Did we miss a few players? Sure, but every team does. The key is to get more good players then the other teams do.

Remember, the greatest QB of all time was not a first rd draft pick but the third. Think how many teams passed on him thrice, and others twice. All this guy ended up doing was lead San Francisco to 4 Superbowl Championships.
That is quite possibly the most lucid, well thought out opinion I've ever read. Well said old chap.
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Old 08-20-2005   #23
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And none of them are John Elway !!!!
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Old 08-20-2005   #24
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And none of them are John Elway !!!!
Man... that's genius material there. And Elway wishes he were Joe Montana.
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Old 08-20-2005   #25
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That is quite possibly the most lucid, well thought out opinion I've ever read. Well said old chap.
Thanks for the kind words.
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Old 08-20-2005   #26
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In my opinion John Elway could take the Niners to the same amount of Super Bowls Montana did but Montana could'nt have carried an average Bronco team like Elway .
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Old 08-20-2005   #27
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That's all fine but many of these guys are not suited for our team, unproven or we have similar players. Your point is correct though...so I can agree with the fact that no team has a crystal ball. If you go to drafthistory.com you can see we have drafted well. No team has a ideal draft year in-year out.

Alex Brown is a 265 pound 4-3 End and isn't a 3-4 End

Boss Baily hasn't done anything but get injured well so far

I'd rather have Gaffney than Andre Davis, and we drafted our late draft small RB guy...his name is Dom Davis.
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Old 08-20-2005   #28
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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34
In my opinion John Elway could take the Niners to the same amount of Super Bowls Montana did but Montana could'nt have carried an average Bronco team like Elway .
That could be very true and is worth considering. But also consider that Montana took the Chiefs past Denver and past the Oilers(despite 13 sacks and a cantaloupe on his right elbow) in (I think) '93. Montana won every time he had a chance. Elway blew several chances and got his redemption (deservedly)at the end of his career. Not to mention that Elway was a #1 pick and pulled a childish stunt like whatshisname Manning did last year. Montana was a 3rd round pick that made all other NFL teams look like the team that passed on Michael Jordan. I'll take Montana every time. Elway is STILL a damn good pick and deserving of it.
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Old 08-20-2005   #29
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Originally Posted by Dime
This is for those who dont believe in those draftees of this year...

Letsee... Cass and comp picked... ummm

Donte Robinson - You have to admit this was a awesome pick
Jason Babin - He has done a very good job
Andre Johnson - I dont even have to say anything
David Carr - Bah... still dont need to say anything
Peek- Starting this year
Dom Davis - Diamond in the rough
Wells - Still a decent back and great ST er
need I go on... The only 2 effective 'busts' are 'Hollings' who has been hurt most of the time in his defense, and Joppru who has been hurt all the time.

This year, we picked up more winners... So please quit commenting on who we should have got when you dont have a clue what these picks will do. They have a great track record for finding talent.
You are forgetting the biggest blunder CC has made and I think the Texans are still suffering from it. Boselli!! They will pay out his fat restructured contract for quite some time. When you start whining about cap room remember that. Getting a 3rd for Henson was brilliant. I still think Hollings has a chance.
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Old 08-20-2005   #30
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You are forgetting the biggest blunder CC has made and I think the Texans are still suffering from it. Boselli!! They will pay out his fat restructured contract for quite some time. When you start whining about cap room remember that. Getting a 3rd for Henson was brilliant. I still think Hollings has a chance.
I think his surgeons made the biggest blunder. From what i've read, his shoulder was worse after the last surgery than the one before. But i don't blame casserly for taking Boselli with the first pick, he was a top 10 LT. It also helped bring Walker and Payne over i believe.
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Old 08-20-2005   #31
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The surgeon for Jacksonville was on a show where he cut open the Jags center. The bad news is that it was for a blood clot around his calf and on a training table . The show had a WR describing the event about the DR. squeazing out what looked like grape jelly .
After time went by and the staph infection was cured the player was toast .
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Old 08-20-2005   #32
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No he's not and anyone that says he is must be a real homer. Manning makes his entire offense look better.

Could Carr develop into a great QB? Yes but he hasn't proved to be in Manning's league yet.
Ok.. your starting to get on my nerves.. I would LOVE to see your Manning behind our Oline. Personally, I think spending 1/2 his time looking up at the star from trains hitting him through the oline would tend to wear on him quite quickly. In addition, I dont think Manning would be in Mannings 'league' either.

Funny thing is, I am not even a big fan of Carr's because I dont think he is where he should be, but your comments in comparison make no sense since they have two completely different situtions.
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Old 08-20-2005   #33
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You are forgetting the biggest blunder CC has made and I think the Texans are still suffering from it. Boselli!! They will pay out his fat restructured contract for quite some time. When you start whining about cap room remember that. Getting a 3rd for Henson was brilliant. I still think Hollings has a chance.
No .. I think your forgetting I was speaking of Draft Picks and in addition, When you have a limit choice from people handme downs, you are going to get a apple with a bump on it sometimes.
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Old 08-20-2005   #34
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Originally Posted by awtysst
Actually every team misses players in the draft. The fact is that drafting is an imperfect science. I agree it is too early to judge the new kids, but if you are insinuating that we have had a near perfect draft, I strongly disagree.



in 2002 we could have taken Andre Davis in rd 2, Brian Westbrook in rd 3, Alex Brown or Randy McMichael in rd 4

in 2003 we could have taken Boss Baily or Anquan boldin in rd 2, Jason Witten in rd 3.

So instead of Jabar Gafney in 2002 rd 2, we could have taken Andre Davis, Brian Westbrook instead of Charles Hill in 3, and I would go with Alex Brown in rd 4 instead of Wells.

In 2003, we could have taken Boss Baily in rd 2 instead off Joppru and Witten in the third instead of Dave Ragone.

Clearly if we did that our team would be very diferent then it is today. If we made the same moves, think how different the team would be. We would still have Carr under center, but we would have Brian Westbrook in the backfield. On either side of the field would be Andre David and Andre Johnson (The Dre Twins!). Jason Witten would be our TE. Our Defense would have a young Alex Brown along with Walker, and probably TJ up front. Babin and Boss Baily would be ready to pressure the QB. In the Secondary would be Dunta, PBuc, an Earl.

This of course also shows that we have not done very much in the way of helping the Oline. This is becuase there really has not been any Oline players we could have gone after in 02 and 03. Did we miss a few players? Sure, but every team does. The key is to get more good players then the other teams do.

Remember, the greatest QB of all time was not a first rd draft pick but the third. Think how many teams passed on him thrice, and others twice. All this guy ended up doing was lead San Francisco to 4 Superbowl Championships.
insinuating.... good word. Near perfect draft.... Dumb comment. Since you are quoting that we havent had a near perfect draft from the last 3-4 years, you of course, have a team in mind, which has. So who is it? Personally, I meant we have very good players who have emerged from the chaos of selecting people from the draft. For the most part, most players on that list have meet or exceeded thier expectations. Most teams have good players, but also have major busts too. Concerning the draft, we have been lucky there. The is no crystal ball or Miss Cleo to help you pick the best players. Oh, btw... The best players are the best players because they take advantage of the sitution that they are in, which might not be the same circumstances here. This means a player who might excel on another team might be just good here. Doesnt mean they have the 'talent', just are unable to use thier advantages to thier potential..
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Old 08-20-2005   #35
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boss bailey was taken 1 pick ahead of where we would of drafted if we had not of traded down.
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Old 08-20-2005   #36
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Old 08-20-2005   #37
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No .. I think your forgetting I was speaking of Draft Picks and in addition, When you have a limit choice from people handme downs, you are going to get a apple with a bump on it sometimes.
CC is just as responsable for the initial franchise draft picks and FA's. As a matter of fact he had the advantage of NFL expierence on film and medical records with that pick. He took a gamble and lost. Im not bashing CC per say just pointing out some of his bad decisions (hind site). Henson, DD, Pitts worked out, Bosilli didn't. The bummer is his fat salary the Texans have to pay. DD's fat contract could turn out to be a bust If he isnt durable enough. DD hits defenders like he's Earl Campbell and it will take its toll. Barry Sanders rarely ran thru defenders. I bring him up because he is the only "small" HB I can think of that had a long productive career. Maybe Emmit Smith would be another example. I don't remember him initiating much contact either. Oops I seem to have gotten of track.
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Old 08-20-2005   #38
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That's all fine but many of these guys are not suited for our team, unproven or we have similar players. Your point is correct though...so I can agree with the fact that no team has a crystal ball. If you go to drafthistory.com you can see we have drafted well. No team has a ideal draft year in-year out.

Alex Brown is a 265 pound 4-3 End and isn't a 3-4 End

Boss Baily hasn't done anything but get injured well so far

I'd rather have Gaffney than Andre Davis, and we drafted our late draft small RB guy...his name is Dom Davis.
Ok, maybe Alex Brown does not quite work, but I would say having Andre Davis on one side and Andre Johnson on the other would give us a better one two punch then AJ and Gafney. Your point is well taken that we would not have Dom Davis, but we would have Brian Westbrook. They are very similar type backs in that they can rush and catch dump passes out of the backfield.
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Old 08-20-2005   #39
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Like I said...I agree with the meat of your thought on this. Projecting guys who can dominate College level talent does not always translate to the pros. If you break down all 32 teams drafts they all have misses, and they all hit on their share of players….some a bit more than others. On balance we have drafted well. Early on we had to draft for need in a few spots and it has been a mixed bag, but that is what you have to do when you start a franchise from nothing. Our first day players stack up well against the first day drafted players of the other NFL teams from our inaugural year if you put them all side by side.
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Old 08-20-2005   #40
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Originally Posted by awtysst
Actually every team misses players in the draft. The fact is that drafting is an imperfect science. I agree it is too early to judge the new kids, but if you are insinuating that we have had a near perfect draft, I strongly disagree.

in 2002 we could have taken Andre Davis in rd 2, Brian Westbrook in rd 3, Alex Brown or Randy McMichael in rd 4

in 2003 we could have taken Boss Baily or Anquan boldin in rd 2, Jason Witten in rd 3.

So instead of Jabar Gafney in 2002 rd 2, we could have taken Andre Davis, Brian Westbrook instead of Charles Hill in 3, and I would go with Alex Brown in rd 4 instead of Wells.

In 2003, we could have taken Boss Baily in rd 2 instead off Joppru and Witten in the third instead of Dave Ragone.

Clearly if we did that our team would be very diferent then it is today. If we made the same moves, think how different the team would be. We would still have Carr under center, but we would have Brian Westbrook in the backfield. On either side of the field would be Andre David and Andre Johnson (The Dre Twins!). Jason Witten would be our TE. Our Defense would have a young Alex Brown along with Walker, and probably TJ up front. Babin and Boss Baily would be ready to pressure the QB. In the Secondary would be Dunta, PBuc, an Earl.
Yup. If every GM in the league had a crystal ball, then the draft wouldn't be an imperfect science. But since we are wondering about the players that we could have had . . . if all the other GMs had crystal balls, how many of them would have taken Domanick Davis in the 3rd round before Casserly took him in the 4th?

The point . . . it all evens out in the wash.
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