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Old 08-11-2005   #1
LBC_Justin
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Default Texans Recievers vs early 90's Oilers Recievers

I like our current team.....but these guys were magical. (Maybe it was Warren Moon and a sick O-Line. Maybe it was the fact that we passed every down in the run-n-shoot. But I loved every one of these guys.)

Haywood Jefferies (pro bowl 91', 92', 93')
Ernest Givins (pro bowl 90', 92')
Drew Hill (pro bowl 88', 90)
Webster Slaughter (pro bowl 93')
Curtis Duncan

(*Time Machine Fantasy*) I would love to bring a few of these guys in their prime to the Texans to compete for the #2 & #3 receiver positions.

How do you think our current squad of guys would compete against these old school guys. I think Andre Johnson would still be a stand out.



P.S. I hate Bud Adams and I am glad he is gone.
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Old 08-11-2005   #2
HJam72
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I'm gonna say:

1) Johnson
2) Jefferies
3) Slaughter (I'm countin' his Browns days too to put him over Givens)
4) Givens
5) Hill
6) Every body else...

I'd put Slaughter over Jefferies as the #2 for this team though. I think he'd be a perfect #2 for us.

That O-line was WAY better overall than what we've seen so far and yes it made a big difference, but you have to remember (not saying you didn't) that Moon was a better QB than Carr has been--SO FAR. We're thinking and hoping that will change.

Last edited by HJam72; 08-11-2005 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 08-11-2005   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HJam72
...but you have to remember (not saying you didn't) that Moon was a better QB than Carr has been--SO FAR...
In his 1st 3 years with the Oilers, Moon threw for 40 TDs & 59 INTs, 54% completions, as the Oilers went 13-35. Try comparing apples to apples.
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Old 08-11-2005   #4
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Actually, I meant Moom at his best vs. Carr so far. Sorry, I should have specified that.

I wasn't comparing Carr to Moon is his first 3 yrs. because I couldn't remember Moon's output back then ,but yeah those stats certainly make Carr look good.
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Old 08-11-2005   #5
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It should be noted that it was Moon's 4th season when he had his breakout season. Warren threw 21 TDs to 18 INTs in 12 games (strike shortened) and led the Oilers to a wildcard berth.
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Old 08-11-2005   #6
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Moon played with the CFL for several years, too. Plus he wasn't a rookie on a BRAND NEW TEAM with no experience, behind a line that gave up the most sacks on one QB in NFL history.

I have fond memories of the Run&Shoot days, but that's that. They hever got over the hump, and the design of their offense would never allow it (no TE or FB on the roster?!? + can't control the clock by nature of a lack of a running game).

As far as the question: I'd take our WRs today. Mainly because AJ is that good! Pro Bowl in his second season?! On a team that has never had a winning record?! OH YEAH!!
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Old 08-11-2005   #7
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Two names:

Mike Munchak
Bruce Mathews

Our O-Line was SICK, even with Brad Hopkins at LT
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Old 08-11-2005   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
It should be noted that it was Moon's 4th season when he had his breakout season. Warren threw 21 TDs to 18 INTs in 12 games (strike shortened) and led the Oilers to a wildcard berth.
Yeah but even his "breakout season" included just a 50% completion percentage.
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Old 08-11-2005   #9
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I didn't think Moon really got going until 1988 and beyond. In 1987, didn't we go 2-1 in scrub games against 2 playoff teams? We likely wouldn't have made the playoffs until 1988 if it hadn't been for the scrubs.
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Old 08-11-2005   #10
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Ernest Givens was by far the best hands down. Johnson makes me forget though.
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Old 08-11-2005   #11
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Stats are very deceptive when it comes to football and it's hard to define players with raw stats like you can in baseball. Moon was a dynamite QB in a failed trick-bag offense (chuck and duck) when he was with the Oilers. He was much better at finding secondary receivers and reading defenses than Carr has shown to be so far. I don't think much of Jeffries, but Hill and Givins were dynamite little WR's.
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Old 08-11-2005   #12
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Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Jeffries the 1st Oiler to have 100 receptions in a season?
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Old 08-11-2005   #13
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Yeah, but he was the WR1 in a gimmick offense and he was good for about 11 ypc. He wasn't anything special. The slot guys really made that offense work. All Jeffries would run were those little outside routes.
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Old 08-11-2005   #14
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100 catches was a big deal then, but now it seems pretty commonplace. Just an observation.

I spoke too soon, last year only Tony Gonzales had at least 100 (102), I guess it's not that commonplace.
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Last edited by donbmt; 08-11-2005 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 08-11-2005   #15
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It's nearly 7 catches per game, so it's a heck of a pace.
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Old 08-11-2005   #16
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Ernest Givens ---> 5-9, 170 lbs
At that height and Weight it must have been really fast or he wouldn't have been in the league.

Drew Hill was also short 5-9.

Anyone know their 40 times?
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Old 08-11-2005   #17
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He wasn't that fast but he was lightning quick and had fantastic body control. Givins was electric after the catch. Hill is 29th all-time in the NFL with 634 catches.

All-time leaders

1. *J Rice 1549
2. C Carter 1101
3. *T Brown 1094
4. A Reed 951
5. A Monk 940
6. I Fryar 851
7. *M Harrison 845
8. L Centers 826
9. S Largent 819
10. S Sharpe 815
11. H Ellard 814
12. *J Smith 792
13. *I Bruce 777
14. J Lofton 764
15. *K McCardell 755
16. M Irvin 750
17. C Joiner 750
18. A Rison 743
19. *M Faulk 723
20. *R Smith 712
21. G Clark 699
22. T Mathis 689
23. *K Johnson 673
24. H Moore 670
25. *T Owens 669
26. O Newsome 662
27. C Taylor 649
28. *R Proehl 641
29. D Hill 634

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/misc/rec.htm
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Old 08-11-2005   #18
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the offense made most of those guys. givens and jefferies did nothing after they left the oilers. duncan was also a product of the run and shoot. slaughter and hill were pretty good with other teams. hill had the best hands of any of those guys.
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Old 08-11-2005   #19
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Haywood was cut in 1995. He retired after playing in just 9 games as a Saint. He pretty much played his entire career here as Givins did. Here is a piece on Givins by hpf...

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/team/wr3.html
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Old 08-11-2005   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donbmt
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Jeffries the 1st Oiler to have 100 receptions in a season?
Charley Hennigan had 101 receptions for the 1964 Houston Oiler team.
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