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Old 07-06-2004   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Playmaker
I guess it boils down to Babin being a reach at 27th pick. I *hope* he turns out what the Texans wanted him for but frankly won't be surprised if he doesn't live up to the expectations.
In order to be a reach wouldn't the Texans have to be the only team who wanted him? I just remember reading that other teams had an interest.
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Old 07-06-2004   #22
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Even though I have my reservations about the pick, they center around paying the price that we paid for the 27th, not so much for using the 27th pick on
Babin. I think there is a distinction between the two. It almost makes me wonder if the Titans themselves weren't in the hunt for Babin (not just a division
rival wanting to stick it to us to the max).
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Old 07-06-2004   #23
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We only gave up one first day pick. How is that "sticking us to the max"? Do the other second day picks bother you that much?
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Old 07-06-2004   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rittenhouserobz
In order to be a reach wouldn't the Texans have to be the only team who wanted him? I just remember reading that other teams had an interest.
The Rams had a lot of intrest in him and probably would have taken him to replace Grant Winstrom if Steven Jackson wasnt on the board.
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Old 07-06-2004   #25
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It seems to me that Travis LaBoy & Randy Starks are more than fair consideration to give up for Babin (though its all speculation at this point, since none of us have any knowledge of how these guys will perform in the NFL). Additional consideration of the TCU player (Schobel the DE - think that's his name) represents a definite premium. Swapping 5ht round picks is immaterial. LaBoy, a DE who would also be a OLB prospect for us, might have near the potential that Babin has. And Starks was a mock first rounder for quite a while, but fell like a rock shortley before the draft ? The guy was a DL in college in the 3-4 at Maryland - our D line, though looking good for this season is old and thin.
Still on the board in the 3rd round, I think Starks could be the steal of the draft this year ,i.e., this years D.Davis.
I'd be skeptical of the Rams( or any other 4-3 team), having genuine interest in
Babin in the first round. Babin reportedly is relative sluggish and not nearly as
quick playing at a heavier weight than 260. He is a true tweener, only 3-4 teams would pay top dollar for him.
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Old 07-06-2004   #26
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Babin played at or near 265-270 most of the time in College. He was very productive at that weight.
Quote:
93 Jason Babin 2 DT 6-4 265 Jr./Sr. Paw Paw, MI (Paw Paw H.S.)
http://www.wmubroncos.com/sports/football/roster.html
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Old 07-06-2004   #27
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for what its worth the draft guru from the dallas morning news (whats his name again?) had babin in the low 20's as i recall. this is the same guy whos always one of or the most acurate draft forecaster.

i seem to recall hearing the titans did have an intrest in babin.
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Old 07-06-2004   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powda
for what its worth the draft guru from the dallas morning news (whats his name again?) had babin in the low 20's as i recall. this is the same guy whos always one of or the most acurate draft forecaster.

i seem to recall hearing the titans did have an intrest in babin.
It was Rick Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News and he had Babin rated as the 32nd best prospect in the NFL draft regardless of position. Travis LaBoy was 62 fwiw.
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Old 07-06-2004   #29
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rated 32 probably ,but where did his final mock have babin going. maybe im stubborn ,but im almost sure it was in the twenties.
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Old 07-06-2004   #30
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It really doesn't matter. "Mock" drafts are named accordingly. Guesses and such are fun and games I guess.

Gosselin's mock on 4/18...

1.. San Diego - Eli Manning, QB, Mississippi.
2.. Oakland - Robert Gallery, T, Iowa.
3.. Arizona - Larry Fitzgerald, WR, Pittsburgh..
4.. NY Giants - Philip Rivers, QB, North Carolina State.
5.. Washington - Kellen Winslow, TE, Miami, Fla.
6.. Detroit - Roy Williams, WR, Texas.
7.. Cleveland - Sean Taylor, S, Miami, Fla.
8.. Atlanta - DeAngelo Hall, CB, Virginia Tech.
9.. Jacksonville - Mike Williams, WR, USC.
10.. Houston - Will Smith, DE, Ohio State. .
11.. Pittsburgh - Ben Roethlisberger, QB, Miami, Ohio.
12.. NY Jets - Dunta Robinson, CB, South Carolina.
13.. Buffalo - Lee Evans, WR, Wisconsin.
14.. Chicago - Tommie Harris, DL, Oklahoma.
15.. Tampa Bay - Kenechi Udeze, DE, USC.
16.. San Francisco - Reggie Williams, WR, Washington.
17.. Denver (from Cincinnati) - Ben Troupe, TE, Florida.
18.. New Orleans - D.J. Williams, LB, Miami, Fla.
19.. Minnesota - Vince Wilfork, DT, Miami, Fla. .
20.. Miami - Michael Clayton, WR, LSU.
21.. New England - Kevin Jones, RB, Virginia Tech.
22.. Dallas - Steven Jackson, RB, Oregon State.
23.. Seattle - Shawn Anderson, OT, Arkansas.
24.. Cincinnati (from Denver) - Chris Gamble, CB, Ohio State.
25.. Green Bay - Marcus Tubbs, DT, Texas.
26.. ST. LOUIS - Jason Babin, DE Western Michigan.
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Old 07-06-2004   #31
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appreciate it vin. the reason gosselin is so well respected in draft circles is his ability to "call" the first round of the draft (i.e. mock). i cant speak for this year but last year he had the highest percentage accurate of any publication or respected source of draft news. i do give him some credibility. and while i wont say i value kiper's opinion as much LOTS of people seem to. they both had babin rated as a first round prospect.

the texans obviously had him rated as a first rounder as did at least one other nfl team wich forced our one-sided trade.

still a reach?
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Old 07-07-2004   #32
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Babin will be speacial I have a gut feeling.
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Old 07-08-2004   #33
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NUNUSGUY, FYI, at the combine, Babin ran a 4.65 40-yard dash, he also did 31 225-lbs
reps, and weighed in at 265lbs. Thats isnt sluggish, weak or small for an OLB. Get the facts straight.
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Old 07-08-2004   #34
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And the speed should get better because Dan Reily is getting Babin down to the 250 range. Read that awhile back....
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Old 07-08-2004   #35
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If the report is that Babin is being thinned down to 'bout 250, then maybe we
can get him moved back to weakside OLB where we can maximize his pass rushing skills - afterall, that's why we paid a ton for him. At 'bout 250, he's virtually the same size as Wong and the argument would be gone to have him
on the strong side because of superior size. The best pass rusher (generally speaking), plays weakside OLB in the 3-4 (weakside DE in the 4-3), just like the best pass rush blocker plays LT in the interior line. Strenth vs. strenth.
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Old 07-08-2004   #36
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They won't move him there. They play him at his current position because they like his size, and if I am not mistaken he played on that side in College so I don't think there is any "move-back" since he never played on that side.
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Old 07-08-2004   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
If the report is that Babin is being thinned down to 'bout 250, then maybe we can get him moved back to weakside OLB where we can maximize his pass rushing skills - afterall, that's why we paid a ton for him ...
I believe Babin's cap number for 2004, approximately $1,122,000, is much less than Wong's, at $3,800,000.

If by 'paid a ton' you are referring to the trade, I don't think a 3rd round pick, an extra 4th round pick and an exchange of 5th round picks is much to move up 13 spots to get back in the first round. I'm thrilled that the Texans had two first round picks and still have a first round pick next year. The C'boys, Titans, Ravens and Colts fans don't get to look forward to seeing their first round pick this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
The best pass rusher (generally speaking), plays weakside OLB in the 3-4 (weakside DE in the 4-3),...
I disagree. Was Latham better than Green for the Panthers, or were both of them good (Pro Bowl). I think the Texans feel more comfortable with Wong playing in what generally is the greater space of the weakside, since it is Babins first year at OLB.

Good luck saying to Capers, "I didn't get to the quarterback because it's harder from over here on the (usually) strong side."
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Old 07-08-2004   #38
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they stated that the top 3 guys on their draft board were.

1. Sean Taylor
2. Dunta Robinson
3. Jason Babin


in other words.. those are the 3 guys that the texans wanted most of all. they tried to trade up for taylor but people were asking WAY to much. So we grabbed dunta.

we WERE going to wait until the 2nd round and grab babin, but apparently someone else wanted him too and were trading up to grab him.. so we traded up immediatly.. gave up a 3rd rounder and got our guy.

so no.. none of those other OLBs were rated above Babin on our draft board.. he was numero uno.
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Old 07-08-2004   #39
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In our division the best pass rushers are Freeney and "The Freak" (now in PHL), and both are weak side DE. I remember the Miami game well and the battle between Pitts & Jason Taylor - weak side again. Just to name a few that I can think from games we played last year but I'm sure there are exceptions - Green for the Panthers way back
when he played - maybe was one - if he was the best rusher ?
There's simply more opportunities on the weak side for a pass rusher - no TE
to block you (usually), and QB more vulnerable (usually right-handed, therefor
weakside gets QBs blind side). It is the side of the field that has the most opportunities for a pass rusher.
If Wonk was really an effective pass rusher, they should have moved him to weakside last year after Jeff Posey left for Buffalo.
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Old 07-08-2004   #40
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The best pass rusher on the Panthers and the Giants are Julius Peppers and Michael Strahan and they both play on the other side. Babin will not be moved.
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