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Old 07-31-2005   #1
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Default Why do some dislike Carr?

ok guys, im one of those that doesnt give Carr a lot of credit. Im trying to figure out why this guy rubs me the wrong way and i think its because he hasnt lived up to my expectations. The way he blew up at fresno his senior season i guess i was expecting a lot more than what hes shown. Yeah i know he was with an expansion team but i hate seeing him rely on the drop off pass so much. This guy has a rocket for an arm and is making the passes that tony banks can make. Usually when he throws the ball he completes it, but he should be farther along in his reads than just throwing to dd. And for all the "its the lines fault" i agree with you to a certain extent but i also think it also has a lot t do with his reads. I think hes got a long way to go and i hope he can put up some 20tds and 13ints this year. I guess i just keep waiting for this guy to have a break out season and i cant see it in the near future. What do u guys think?
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Old 07-31-2005   #2
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Having watched Carr in Fresno I think I can offer a little insight despite what Vinny things. Carr had a receiver to throw to who made a lot of things happen. His name was Bernard Berrian. Berrian was a very gifted receiver. He had hands and was a burner once he got the ball. Carr threw a lot of short balls in his senior year that were turned into big gains. He had a left tackle by the name of Mankins along with the rest of the O-line which gave him time to do his thing. Carr has not had a receiver like Berrian while at Houston nor an O-line that protected him like the Mankins lead line. Berrian and Carr were always on the same page as they worked out together during the summer. AJ is a great physical talent, but he does not have the hands of Berrian nor does he seem to hang around in the offseason and work out with Carr. Does he know how to get open like Berrian did? I'm referring to the NFL vs the College level and I understand that. Berrian was injured in Berrian's senior year and he simply didn't return to his old form. I don't believe David has the confidence in AJ that he had in Berrian. The fact that he goes to Davis as often as he does may be a hands thing. Fresno State was called WRU for awhile, because of the number of people we produced. Most were excellent route runners with very good to excellent hands. The person I look to who may make Carr a different QB is Mathis. He's a faster version of Berrian. He can go get the ball and he has the hands to catch it. Remember Carr is like Elway in that he throws a very hard ball that requires hands to catch it. He can throw a very long ball, but it tends to be on a flater arch. There is a lot more variance in that kind of throw and requires a receiver who can put on the after burners if need be or slow down if need be. It requires someone who knows where he is going before the ball is thrown, because the ball will be thrown often before the break is made. Our QB's do not have the luxury of waiting for the receiver to get open. The QB's are throwing to a spot on the long ball. I suspect David has been instructed to not try and force the ball based on Dom's hatred of the turn over. Remember, if David throws a laser to a receiver, and it bounces, its likely to be intercepted. Most of our receivers have not been know for their ability to catch the ball, even AJ, in the beginning. I still question AJ's hands, but they are certainly a lot better than when he entered the league. He has good to very good hands, but not excellent hands. Carr is a talent, but he had a lot of talent around him when he was at Fresno. He was also a very mature young man for his age in college. The summer prior to his senior year he worked out endlessly with a man by the name of Trent Dilfer. Trent Dilfer who was at that point coming off of a SB win and had lost his job. He just wanted to work out with someone while waiting for a call. To this day Trent and David are very close friends. If you look at Elway in his early years you will see a lot of similarities between he and Carr. Elway threw the hard ball and had a lot of deflected interceptions. In his later years he began to add more touch and became a better QB. Elway, however, had the luxury of being allowed to force the ball. It was a given that he would be intercepted sometimes, but they thought they were better off in the long run. I don't believe that is the case in Houston.
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Old 07-31-2005   #3
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I don't think hands is the problem. Houston's receivers consistently rate near the top of the league in dropped pass %. Not to mention just watching the games, they typically have caught everything thrown their way with a few exceptions of course.

The fact that he goes to Davis so much seems to be a coaching thing rather than a confidence thing. Capers likes to control the clock and throwing to Davis for 5 yards is just as good as a 5 yard run when it comes to the bottom-line.

You really need to quit making the glory days of Fresno State your standard for how the Texans perform. It's different players and a far different talent level.
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Old 07-31-2005   #4
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I was going to reply in detail, but it is too early in the morning. Just stop with great Fresno State talent. Good college players, none of which has accomplished what Corey Bradford has in the pros. We are talking the NFL. Playing with and against NFL players. What was at Fresno State matters not.

And Tom Brady does NOT have great WRs or a dominate OL.
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Old 07-31-2005   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
Having watched Carr in Fresno I think I can offer a little insight despite what Vinny things. Carr had a receiver to throw to who made a lot of things happen. His name was Bernard Berrian. Berrian was a very gifted receiver. He had hands and was a burner once he got the ball. Carr threw a lot of short balls in his senior year that were turned into big gains. He had a left tackle by the name of Mankins along with the rest of the O-line which gave him time to do his thing. Carr has not had a receiver like Berrian while at Houston nor an O-line that protected him like the Mankins lead line. Berrian and Carr were always on the same page as they worked out together during the summer. AJ is a great physical talent, but he does not have the hands of Berrian nor does he seem to hang around in the offseason and work out with Carr. Does he know how to get open like Berrian did? I'm referring to the NFL vs the College level and I understand that. Berrian was injured in Berrian's senior year and he simply didn't return to his old form. I don't believe David has the confidence in AJ that he had in Berrian. The fact that he goes to Davis as often as he does may be a hands thing. Fresno State was called WRU for awhile, because of the number of people we produced. Most were excellent route runners with very good to excellent hands. The person I look to who may make Carr a different QB is Mathis. He's a faster version of Berrian. He can go get the ball and he has the hands to catch it. Remember Carr is like Elway in that he throws a very hard ball that requires hands to catch it. He can throw a very long ball, but it tends to be on a flater arch. There is a lot more variance in that kind of throw and requires a receiver who can put on the after burners if need be or slow down if need be. It requires someone who knows where he is going before the ball is thrown, because the ball will be thrown often before the break is made. Our QB's do not have the luxury of waiting for the receiver to get open. The QB's are throwing to a spot on the long ball. I suspect David has been instructed to not try and force the ball based on Dom's hatred of the turn over. Remember, if David throws a laser to a receiver, and it bounces, its likely to be intercepted. Most of our receivers have not been know for their ability to catch the ball, even AJ, in the beginning. I still question AJ's hands, but they are certainly a lot better than when he entered the league. He has good to very good hands, but not excellent hands. Carr is a talent, but he had a lot of talent around him when he was at Fresno. He was also a very mature young man for his age in college. The summer prior to his senior year he worked out endlessly with a man by the name of Trent Dilfer. Trent Dilfer who was at that point coming off of a SB win and had lost his job. He just wanted to work out with someone while waiting for a call. To this day Trent and David are very close friends. If you look at Elway in his early years you will see a lot of similarities between he and Carr. Elway threw the hard ball and had a lot of deflected interceptions. In his later years he began to add more touch and became a better QB. Elway, however, had the luxury of being allowed to force the ball. It was a given that he would be intercepted sometimes, but they thought they were better off in the long run. I don't believe that is the case in Houston.
Ibar......where in the world did you get mathis having great hands or even better hands than AJ? besides the point AJ catches almost everything thrown his way, so he had 10 or 12 drops this season but was thrown to 79 times. Mathis may have good hands in the future but he is still very raw talent.
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Old 07-31-2005   #6
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first off, I don't dislike Carr. He doesn't rub me in the wrong way, even slightly, on a personal level. I think he is a very upstanding and rightous person and family guy. An outstanding role model for what every young man should be doing with their lives. And an all around nice guy.

There are some things that he does, or doesn't do on the field that drive me absolutely insane during the game. But there is a distinct difference between his personal and professional life and my attitude towards him for that. When fans take things too far like last year and throw beer on his wife and child, that is outragous and unconscionable. And I would have been the first one in line to kick that guys butt and teach him some manner's had I been there at the time.

I have been a Carr critiquer for quite some time on this board. And I am also the first to point out that this is a team sport so not all the blame for losing a game goes on Carr's shoulders, IMHO.

It is just now training camp time. I hope that Carr's does what he has done every year and trains on some area's that he needs to improve on. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he does just that. This is the year when alot of QB's seem to 'get it' and I think Carr will be one of those. Call me a 'homer' or optimist, but I will give Carr time to show me THIS season that he has improved and is capable of taking us to a playoff game before I start 'dogging' the guy before the first pre-season game even.

Football season is just now started and already the bashing is beginning. Unbelievable :brickwall
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Old 07-31-2005   #7
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Let's wait until about week 8 and then restart this thread. This new season has a different feel to it. Kinda like some great things are gonna happen for the team abroad, including Carr.
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Old 07-31-2005   #8
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As for my 61 yr old butt... not to worry it doesn't work as well as it looks.
A little more than we needed to know there caddy

I'll say one thing about Carr. He's in the process of getting a bigtime contract extension so he needs to step it up as much or more than anyone else.
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Old 07-31-2005   #9
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All I can ask for is for Carr to improve on his weaknesses. Sack total is a little misleading, many times in his 1st season Carr would run out of bounds behind the line of scrimage instead of just flicking the ball to the consession stand when he got out of the tackle box. Carr has improved on that and will flick the ball out of bounds now. IMO Carr has to learn to read defenses faster. First season (and rightfully so) Billy Miller was his target and Carr used him like a rented mule. AJ comes along and so does DD.. now our TE's don't get involved and it is the AJ and DD show.. Carrs seems to lock on to those two.. One thing about the good QB's in the history of the league.. they knew how to spread the ball around. As of now teams know this: Double AJ and let Carr through to DD.. and like someone said DD is going to get you 5 yards that is it.. AJ can take a 5 yarder and go 80 .. DD isn't going to do that.

Like I said, all I can ask for is Carr to improve, we are getting talent around him and Rome wasn't built in a day.
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Old 07-31-2005   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopTexanFan16
...Mathis may have good hands in the future but he is still very raw talent.
I don't know if IBar is on to something (or on something j/k), but last night Mathis looked better as a receiver than I thought he would. He showed pretty good hands, seemed to make his cuts sharp, didn't get tied up on the line. It was only one practice, but I have to say that I was impressed. Mathis lined up at 3 different positions in 7 on 7 & I think made receptions from each spot. He may be ready to play much sooner than I thought he could be. My impression of Mathis as a NFL punt returner...I don't think so.

Now back to the bi-weekly David Carr thread...
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Old 07-31-2005   #11
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Good news on Mathis, thanks for the info. Actually, I look for Carr to regress a bit at the start of the season as he gets used to the quick toss/timing patterns. I think that is what the writter was saying, that he wasn't hitting them well. If he isn't on the same page with the recievers by game 4....then Houston, we may have a problem IMO.
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Old 07-31-2005   #12
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Football season is just now started and already the bashing is beginning. Unbelievable :brickwall
No... what is Unbelievable is when someone starts a post asking questions and tending to see a few problem areas that a player needs to work on. All the sudden, its bashing people. Why can people make small negitive comments around here from things they see and are concerned about concerning any player before people start taking it poorly, and yelling 'troll'. Bashing is coming and starting the fire threads (my oponion) or majorly insulting them. Any one should be able to post this oponion without earning a bash badge.

Now, concerning Carr. From me. From 0-5 yards, Carr is awesome on his reads and pretty accurate on his throws. He has 1-2 bad ones from that range, but far more awesome ones then bad ones. I think his problem is from 5-25 yards myself. He for some reason either doesnt lead it properly forcing the reciever to reach back more then normal, or leads it too much. I see more of the 'thrown behind' throws here, mainly on crossing routes. He has majorly improved his 'touch' on the ball, and he is a boss when it comes to scrambling (with the oline last year, he had to become good at it). Personally, I think David would be better if we brought in a vetern (other than Banks) to learn from. Not that I wouldnt start him, but learning from a chris chandler or another oldie I think would help him with his other passes. Carr has come a long way, but he has a few more steps to take. I seriously believe Carr would be even better then he is right now, if he had a o-line to protect him, probably even a top 10 qb.
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Old 07-31-2005   #13
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What a lot of posters fail to realize si the mental side of Carr rather than the physical talent. Im not a psyciotrist or anything but you guys have to realize that Carr was a QB picked 1st overall by an expansion team and thrown in as a starter right off the bat. His franchise LT never got to play a snap and he is expected to put a brand new team on his shoulders and take them to the playoffs within 4 years. OK, Carr definitely has the tools, we all have seen that. When he has time to step back in the pocket and deliver, he can make great tight throws with that rocket of an arm he has.

But Carr was sacked 76 times his rookie year. What would that do to any QB as a rookie? Not to mention that it hasnt really gotten that much better over the past 2 seasons. Carr is rattled, and this isnt a mature QB thing, its a natural instincs thing. Carr does not have the faith in his O-line to set back and believe that they will hold up long enough for him to make his reads and choose a good target, so he looks form AJ to DD. I remember early last season, Carr was leading the AFC in passing yards like after the first 3 or 4 games, but he had good protectin, but as the season progressed and the protection got worse( i dont know why) Carr got reasonably frustrated EXAMPLE, the jacksonville game where he threw his helmet and the Browns game wher he kept running for his life and yelling at the o- line. Before a QB can start being a franchise QB he has to have faith in the system and faith in his O-line to hold the pass rush, I dont think he has either, because every year our offense is makeing some change to help slow the pass rush, and every year we still arent respectable. Carr just needs a few games guys thats all. If he can have 2 or 3 games of solid protection, I think we will see a superstar in the makeing come out of DC.
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Old 07-31-2005   #14
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Quote:
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What a lot of posters fail to realize si the mental side of Carr rather than the physical talent. Im not a psyciotrist or anything but you guys have to realize that Carr was a QB picked 1st overall by an expansion team and thrown in as a starter right off the bat. His franchise LT never got to play a snap and he is expected to put a brand new team on his shoulders and take them to the playoffs within 4 years. OK, Carr definitely has the tools, we all have seen that. When he has time to step back in the pocket and deliver, he can make great tight throws with that rocket of an arm he has.

But Carr was sacked 76 times his rookie year. What would that do to any QB as a rookie? Not to mention that it hasnt really gotten that much better over the past 2 seasons. Carr is rattled, and this isnt a mature QB thing, its a natural instincs thing. Carr does not have the faith in his O-line to set back and believe that they will hold up long enough for him to make his reads and choose a good target, so he looks form AJ to DD. I remember early last season, Carr was leading the AFC in passing yards like after the first 3 or 4 games, but he had good protectin, but as the season progressed and the protection got worse( i dont know why) Carr got reasonably frustrated EXAMPLE, the jacksonville game where he threw his helmet and the Browns game wher he kept running for his life and yelling at the o- line. Before a QB can start being a franchise QB he has to have faith in the system and faith in his O-line to hold the pass rush, I dont think he has either, because every year our offense is makeing some change to help slow the pass rush, and every year we still arent respectable. Carr just needs a few games guys thats all. If he can have 2 or 3 games of solid protection, I think we will see a superstar in the makeing come out of DC.
You are very right.
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Old 07-31-2005   #15
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"If he can have 2 or 3 games of solid protection, I think we will see a superstar in the makeing come out of DC."

OK, my calendar is marked.....
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Old 08-01-2005   #16
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He makes me drool. Hes soo hott. Im sure you hott little cowboys would agree with me.
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Old 08-01-2005   #17
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ok guys, im one of those that doesnt give Carr a lot of credit. Im trying to figure out why this guy rubs me the wrong way and i think its because he hasnt lived up to my expectations. The way he blew up at fresno his senior season i guess i was expecting a lot more than what hes shown. Yeah i know he was with an expansion team but i hate seeing him rely on the drop off pass so much. This guy has a rocket for an arm and is making the passes that tony banks can make. Usually when he throws the ball he completes it, but he should be farther along in his reads than just throwing to dd. And for all the "its the lines fault" i agree with you to a certain extent but i also think it also has a lot t do with his reads. I think hes got a long way to go and i hope he can put up some 20tds and 13ints this year. I guess i just keep waiting for this guy to have a break out season and i cant see it in the near future. What do u guys think?
It is kind of hard to be brilliant with NO protection.
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Old 08-01-2005   #18
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Give Carr time and Pro Bowls will follow!
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Old 08-01-2005   #19
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Time! This is the season that Carr will show improvement. I don't think he will let us down. The team's O-line must help him, as well as the receivers. I'm positive on David Carr.
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Old 08-01-2005   #20
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Carr is going to be fine.... it is amazing what he has done considering the offensive line he has had to work with his entire career.
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