Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > College Football & the 2014 NFL Draft
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


College Football & the 2014 NFL Draft The future stars of the NFL

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-01-2014   #1
Texian
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,868
Rep Power: 66253 Texian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Top QBs & WRs

QBs
1. Bryce Petty, Baylor
2. *Jamies Winston, FSU
3. *Kevin Hogan, Stanford
4. *Marcus Mariota, Oregon
5. Sean Mannion, Oregon State

WRs
1. *Amari Cooper, Alabama
2. *Sammie Coates, Auburn
3. Ty Montgomery, Stanford
4. DeVante Parker, Louisville
5. Rashad Greene, FSU

OT
1. Brandon Scherf, Iowa
2. Cedric Ogbuhei, TAMU
3. *Andrus Peat, Stanford
4. Cameron Erving, FSU
5. Brandon Shell, S Carolina

* = underclassman
__________________
The GREATEST risk is not taking one. ....Bob, hire Eliot Wolf, then get the hell out of the way.
Texian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2014   #2
badboy
Site Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Clear Lake
Posts: 24,139
Rep Power: 195710 badboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

I assume these are yours as you do not link? Pretty solid and too early to argue one above another. I also think you have highlighted areas of need. Based on what is known or at least what we have been told it seems AJ will be on roster 2015 barring a flame out. If so, do we go WR high seeking a replacement or wait until the 2016 draft? I am still very concerned about our safeties and corners as I see minimal depth if that, behind our starting CBs and that is if Harris shows up. I could see KJ signing and I can see him going elsewhere, depending a lot on not only team progress but $ offered. He is no Peterson but may get more than we are willing to pay.

I believe Texans will be drafting high enough to select at least two of the 15 you identify. We have to be very solid on our third and fourth picks.
__________________
I want to be able to recognize the difference between a "want" and a "need" and then I want to be satisfied with getting a need
badboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2014   #3
Texian
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,868
Rep Power: 66253 Texian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
I assume these are yours as you do not link? Pretty solid and too early to argue one above another. I also think you have highlighted areas of need. Based on what is known or at least what we have been told it seems AJ will be on roster 2015 barring a flame out. If so, do we go WR high seeking a replacement or wait until the 2016 draft? I am still very concerned about our safeties and corners as I see minimal depth if that, behind our starting CBs and that is if Harris shows up. I could see KJ signing and I can see him going elsewhere, depending a lot on not only team progress but $ offered. He is no Peterson but may get more than we are willing to pay.

I believe Texans will be drafting high enough to select at least two of the 15 you identify. We have to be very solid on our third and fourth picks.
Yes they're mine. Agree AJ is a Texan in 15' however it takes a rookie WR a min of 2 years to get up to speed (thinking ahead). All that said, until the Texans get a QB who can do to the Colts what Luck does to the Texans it's all a moot point. So until the Texans fix their QB conundrum and clean up their salary cap the Texans will be on the bottom looking up.
__________________
The GREATEST risk is not taking one. ....Bob, hire Eliot Wolf, then get the hell out of the way.

Last edited by Texian; 08-03-2014 at 11:54 AM.
Texian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2014   #4
badboy
Site Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Clear Lake
Posts: 24,139
Rep Power: 195710 badboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Yes they're mine. Agree AJ is a Texan in 15' however it takes a rookie WR a min of 2 years to get up to speed (thinking ahead). All that said, until the Texans get a QB who can do to the Colts what Luck does to the Texans it's all a moot point. So until the Texans fix their QB conundrum and clean up their salary cap the Texans will be on the bottom looking up.
I understand your position on cap just do not agree it is as bad. I used to think FA were way to go because at least you knew how they'd perform as pro rather than draft pick. Not so sure now. Rather hit well with draft (lol, I know) and use the 4-5 years to develop cheaper talent; then choose who to keep as that controls cap better than anything. This coaching staff will have to win me over in how good they will be in development. Kubes and Phillips lost me long before they left. Wade had the stats of how he turned D around but I just did not see development I hoped for. The DB s and LB s did not seem to progress behind the starters & when injury took out #1 s we were shallow.

I was not as sold on Bortles as you but unless miracle occurs we will be using a "so so" QB regardless. I mocked Savage way before national heads even talked about him; not bragging just truth. His story caught my eye and he looked pretty solid despite out of game for so long. When I watched him, he looked like a pro rather than a college guy so I don't want to root against him. Just not sure, he will get the Oline or time to mature most QBs require. I was hoping Keenum would start with Savage and (?) getting garbage reps.

We are going to need another very deep draft.
__________________
I want to be able to recognize the difference between a "want" and a "need" and then I want to be satisfied with getting a need
badboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2014   #5
Texian
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,868
Rep Power: 66253 Texian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
I understand your position on cap just do not agree it is as bad. I used to think FA were way to go because at least you knew how they'd perform as pro rather than draft pick. Not so sure now. Rather hit well with draft (lol, I know) and use the 4-5 years to develop cheaper talent; then choose who to keep as that controls cap better than anything. This coaching staff will have to win me over in how good they will be in development. Kubes and Phillips lost me long before they left. Wade had the stats of how he turned D around but I just did not see development I hoped for. The DB s and LB s did not seem to progress behind the starters & when injury took out #1 s we were shallow.

I was not as sold on Bortles as you but unless miracle occurs we will be using a "so so" QB regardless. I mocked Savage way before national heads even talked about him; not bragging just truth. His story caught my eye and he looked pretty solid despite out of game for so long. When I watched him, he looked like a pro rather than a college guy so I don't want to root against him. Just not sure, he will get the Oline or time to mature most QBs require. I was hoping Keenum would start with Savage and (?) getting garbage reps.

We are going to need another very deep draft.
Don't understand why folks think salary cap is not that bad. For the last 3 years Texans had to borrow money from future years just to met payroll for 53 man roster. As a result the only FA they can afford is vet minimums (back ups at best). Three years running the Texans have signed a lesser talent than they lost. In essence the Texans spent $10 mil over the cap each of the last 3 years by borrowing from the future.

Building thru the draft is somewhat of a myth. Teams get 7 draft picks a year. If they have drafted well usually 5 players make the team. At that rate a team would have drafted 20 players after 4 years. That still leaves 33 players needed to complete a 53 man roster. In essence Free Agency is as important if not more so than the draft. And if all you can afford is vet and rookie minimums, well you get the picture.

If you and I sat down to play a game of monopoly and I started the game with $2500 and you started with $1200. I would win 9 out of 10 games. I could afford the more expensive, better performing properties and hotels. For you Mediterranean and Baltic Ave, for me Boardwalk and Park Place. That's basically the game the Texans have been playing the last 3 years. With each passing year, playing the same way year after year, the Texans start each new year (game) with less money than the year (game) before.
__________________
The GREATEST risk is not taking one. ....Bob, hire Eliot Wolf, then get the hell out of the way.
Texian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014   #6
badboy
Site Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Clear Lake
Posts: 24,139
Rep Power: 195710 badboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

First there have been no knock me out of my chair FAs that we had a shot at this off season so that impacts my thinking. Players like Joseph who is on books for 11.25 cap concern me. I was all for signing him but now think that might have been wrong. However, we can cut him after this season at $3.75 m dead money. IF we had drafted better we could have cheaper players at key positions. For example, Watkins #1 we could allow AJ to go after 2015 and have a WR #1 at very cheap very long deal.

Our drafting has been twofold as not only are we always drafting for need 4-5 rounds deep but we have missed on way too many. If, for example, we had drafted a better WR than Posey, if Brennan WIlliams had remained healthy and we had selected two ILBs in last 3 years, we'd be setting pretty well now. We don't seem to plan for replacing guys like Antonio Smith, any of our NTs or even Schaub. I think the 2014 draft will go long ways to helping but we need to follow up with another good one. Of course if our QB, DT, NT, TE, LG and RT, and ILB is resolved 2014, 2015 draft will look different on my board than currently.


Cap wise we still have about $ 7 million, I think. Only 5 players are capped at over $ 5.3 m; AJ 15.6 JJ 11.2 Foster 8.5 DB 8.5 and Myers at 7. Only DB and per McNair, AJ are guaranteed to be on roster 2015.
__________________
I want to be able to recognize the difference between a "want" and a "need" and then I want to be satisfied with getting a need
badboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014   #7
Texian
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,868
Rep Power: 66253 Texian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
First there have been no knock me out of my chair FAs that we had a shot at this off season so that impacts my thinking. Players like Joseph who is on books for 11.25 cap concern me. I was all for signing him but now think that might have been wrong. However, we can cut him after this season at $3.75 m dead money. IF we had drafted better we could have cheaper players at key positions. For example, Watkins #1 we could allow AJ to go after 2015 and have a WR #1 at very cheap very long deal.

Our drafting has been twofold as not only are we always drafting for need 4-5 rounds deep but we have missed on way too many. If, for example, we had drafted a better WR than Posey, if Brennan WIlliams had remained healthy and we had selected two ILBs in last 3 years, we'd be setting pretty well now. We don't seem to plan for replacing guys like Antonio Smith, any of our NTs or even Schaub. I think the 2014 draft will go long ways to helping but we need to follow up with another good one. Of course if our QB, DT, NT, TE, LG and RT, and ILB is resolved 2014, 2015 draft will look different on my board than currently.


Cap wise we still have about $ 7 million, I think. Only 5 players are capped at over $ 5.3 m; AJ 15.6 JJ 11.2 Foster 8.5 DB 8.5 and Myers at 7. Only DB and per McNair, AJ are guaranteed to be on roster 2015.
One reason Joseph's cap is so high is because the Texans restructured his contract not long after signing him. Almost $7 million of the 2014 cap # is attributed to Joseph and AJ restructuring contracts in years past.

Year after year fans keep saying "if we draft better" but that never seems to happen. The common denominator of the last 7 drafts is Rick Smith and his hand picked scouting department. I know optimistic fans are euphoiric about the 2014 draft but it will likely turn out be another substandard Texans draft. IMO the 2006 draft will be far superior to the 2014 draft.

A BIG reason why the Texans have been pressed in to drafting for need is because of 3 straight years of only be able to sign rookie and vet minimums. A result that created a lot of weak links and holes that needed to be addressed.

$7 million in cap space, yes, however, approx. $5 million of that will be allocated to IR, PUP, Grievances, LTBEs and practice squad. Come start of the season the Texans will have to add 2 additional contracts to the salary cap numbers in order to complete the 53 man roster. Actuality is $2 million or less.
__________________
The GREATEST risk is not taking one. ....Bob, hire Eliot Wolf, then get the hell out of the way.

Last edited by Texian; 08-04-2014 at 01:42 PM.
Texian is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 08-04-2014   #8
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 47
Posts: 49,396
Rep Power: 413804 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texian View Post
A BIG reason why the Texans have been pressed in to drafting for need is because of 3 straight years of only be able to sign rookie and vet minimums. A result that created a lot of weak links and holes that needed to be addressed..
You keep saying this and it simply isn't true. For example Lechler and Reed were far from vet minimum signings.

You're always lauding the Colts and acting as if it is all cap difference and its not. The Texans easily could have made the moves they did to get Vonte Davis and Greg Toler instead of Lechler and Reed cap wise. So if there is a criticism it is in poor player selection.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014   #9
beerlover
Site Contributor
 
beerlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,557
Rep Power: 66422 beerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
You keep saying this and it simply isn't true. For example Lechler and Reed were far from vet minimum signings.

You're always lauding the Colts and acting as if it is all cap difference and its not. The Texans easily could have made the moves they did to get Vonte Davis and Greg Toler instead of Lechler and Reed cap wise. So if there is a criticism it is in poor player selection.

nail on the head here. my question is when does Rick Smith become accountable?
__________________

2012 Draft was Mercilus
beerlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014   #10
Honoring Earl 34
Hey Koolaid
 
Honoring Earl 34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston
Age: 51
Posts: 19,363
Rep Power: 212977 Honoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
nail on the head here. my question is when does Rick Smith become accountable?
Rick probably said the problem was a lack in player development in the secondary that made them overpay .
__________________
I wanted to write something big .

Round Dan
Honoring Earl 34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014   #11
Texian
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,868
Rep Power: 66253 Texian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
You keep saying this and it simply isn't true. For example Lechler and Reed were far from vet minimum signings.

You're always lauding the Colts and acting as if it is all cap difference and its not. The Texans easily could have made the moves they did to get Vonte Davis and Greg Toler instead of Lechler and Reed cap wise. So if there is a criticism it is in poor player selection.
Lechler was signed for $1 mil, that was $60K over vet min (his contract was subsequently back loaded). In order for Texans to afford and pay for Reed's contract they had to resort to restructuring AJ's contract once again! Without the restructure the Texans couldn't afford Reed.

The Texans were never in a position from a salary cap standpoint to afford the likes of Vontae Davis or Greg Toler without first having to either cut players, restructure additional contracts or both. In addition to Davis and Toler, the Colts were also able to sign several other additional starters to their roster. As a result the Colts weren't pressured to draft those positions of weak links or holes in their team.

A simple piece of paper with a line drawn down the middle, listing players lost on one side and players signed on the other over the last 3 years should clear up any doubt for those who are skeptical of just how dire the Texans salary cap mismanagement and player evaluations has become. Poor player selection is a direct result of having little or no money to spend. The result is something much like you're seeing today with Texans signing a flurry of free agents in the first week of August. Something you find all to common with teams with little depth and weak links on their roster.

Until the Texans fix their QB conundrum and a their salary cap mismanagement they are favored candidates to be a perennial Top 10 draft pick every year. At that point many more folks will come to understand that you can't start a game of Monopoly with less money than the other players and be successful. It's the main reason why Dallas has been 8-8 for the last 3 years and very likely not be able to accomplish 8-8 in 2014. Poor salary cap management doesn't only apply to the Texans.
__________________
The GREATEST risk is not taking one. ....Bob, hire Eliot Wolf, then get the hell out of the way.
Texian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014   #12
Texian
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,868
Rep Power: 66253 Texian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
nail on the head here. my question is when does Rick Smith become accountable?
As long as Rick Smith is Bob McNair's assistant and does what Bob is asking him to do, Rick has little worries about his job security. And as long as McNair thinks that Rick and his scouting staff are doing a good job evaluating and analyzing players, all will be well on Kirby as far McNair and Smith are concerned.
__________________
The GREATEST risk is not taking one. ....Bob, hire Eliot Wolf, then get the hell out of the way.
Texian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014   #13
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 47
Posts: 49,396
Rep Power: 413804 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Lechler was signed for $1 mil, that was $60K over vet min (his contract was subsequently back loaded). In order for Texans to afford and pay for Reed's contract they had to resort to restructuring AJ's contract once again! Without the restructure the Texans couldn't afford Reed.

The Texans were never in a position from a salary cap standpoint to afford the likes of Vontae Davis or Greg Toler without first having to either cut players, restructure additional contracts or both.
Lechler was not signed for $1 mil. He had a $1 mil signing bonus and a $1 mil salary in the 1st year of a 3 year deal which is not back loaded at all.

Sorry but you don't get to put the Texans in some sort of special rules category. Teams cut other players, restructure contracts, etc. all the time to make room for free agents and guarandamnteed you don't discount those players in your comparisons (for example you never consider how the Colts got their cap space). $1.3 mil of cap hit for Lechler was more than the 960k the Colts spent on Davis. The Texans spent more on Reed than the Colts did on Toler.

Quote:
In addition to Davis and Toler, the Colts were also able to sign several other additional starters to their roster. As a result the Colts weren't pressured to draft those positions of weak links or holes in their team.
Complete unadulterated tripe. The Colts had so much cap space because they needed half a team due to having let folks go or not re-signing them.

Quote:
A simple piece of paper with a line drawn down the middle, listing players lost on one side and players signed on the other over the last 3 years should clear up any doubt for those who are skeptical of just how dire the Texans salary cap mismanagement and player evaluations has become.
No it shouldn't because as usual you are leaving out an essential ingredient - WHO IS ALREADY ON THE TEAM. A franchise with half a team to start the offseason is going to have more salary cap available AND have to spend a lot of it just to fill out spots. Your simple piece of paper is simplistic rather than enlightening. The Colts lost a crud load of starters 2011-12 so yes there would be a lot of replacements which is not the same as a lot of better players.

And as usual you are overlooking the fact the Colts are in a very temporary position of having a QB on a franchise contract.

Quote:
Poor player selection is a direct result of having little or no money to spend.
Another made up fallacy. If you spend $5 mil on a player who you spend it on is not the $5 mil's fault. We could have had Quinn or Toler or any number of other players that went that offseason for $5 mil or 2 at $2.5 but we went with Reed and it bit them in the ass. That's on the selection of Reed, not the cap.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014   #14
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 36,392
Rep Power: 325689 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texian View Post
If you and I sat down to play a game of monopoly and I started the game with $2500 and you started with $1200. I would win 9 out of 10 games.
Unless I started with hotels on prime property & you've only got a few rent houses. That, I believe is the biggest discrepancy between your view of the cap & mine.

The way you put it, the Eagle's dream team should have won a Super Bowl that year, but they sucked. The Daniel Snyder & Jerry Jones should be the most successful general managers in the league... but they're not.
__________________
thunderkyss is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014   #15
steelbtexan
Hall of Fame
 
steelbtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Age: 52
Posts: 12,601
Rep Power: 121409 steelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
nail on the head here. my question is when does Rick Smith become accountable?
As somebody on another thread described the current state of the Texans org,

Firing Kubiak and not firing Smith = Taking a huge dump and not wiping afterwards. I think that's a perfect analogy.
steelbtexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014   #16
steelbtexan
Hall of Fame
 
steelbtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Age: 52
Posts: 12,601
Rep Power: 121409 steelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Unless I started with hotels on prime property & you've only got a few rent houses. That, I believe is the biggest discrepancy between your view of the cap & mine.

The way you put it, the Eagle's dream team should have won a Super Bowl that year, but they sucked. The Daniel Snyder & Jerry Jones should be the most successful general managers in the league... but they're not.
Or the way the Broncos/Pats etc... have done business seems to be working fairly well.

The Texans org has more in common with Jerrah's Cowboys and the way they are run than Texans fans are willing to admit.

One thing is for sure if maximizing profits and and putting a substandard product on the field is the best way to do business then McNair and Jerrah are 1st ballot HOFers.

BTW, although I would rank players a bit differently those are really good starting points.
steelbtexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014   #17
beerlover
Site Contributor
 
beerlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,557
Rep Power: 66422 beerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respectedbeerlover is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
As somebody on another thread described the current state of the Texans org,

Firing Kubiak and not firing Smith = Taking a huge dump and not wiping afterwards. I think that's a perfect analogy.
I wondered what that smell was
__________________

2012 Draft was Mercilus
beerlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014   #18
Vinny
shiny happy fan
 
Vinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 50
Posts: 21,847
Rep Power: 161784 Vinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
As somebody on another thread described the current state of the Texans org,

Firing Kubiak and not firing Smith = Taking a huge dump and not wiping afterwards. I think that's a perfect analogy.
yeah, I was discouraged when we didn't fire Smith. Perhaps he truely learned from some of his mistakes. Expensive on the job training - The cost was just Franchise reputation, fan disposition/loyalty, and the third 1st overall pick in roughly a decade....perhaps he is no longer Rick Smith - noob GM. He's Rick Smith, lessons learned?
__________________
http://twitter.com/#!/TexansTalk


"A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves" - Edward R. Murrow
Vinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014   #19
Texian
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,868
Rep Power: 66253 Texian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Lechler was not signed for $1 mil. He had a $1 mil signing bonus and a $1 mil salary in the 1st year of a 3 year deal which is not back loaded at all.

Sorry but you don't get to put the Texans in some sort of special rules category. Teams cut other players, restructure contracts, etc. all the time to make room for free agents and guarandamnteed you don't discount those players in your comparisons (for example you never consider how the Colts got their cap space). $1.3 mil of cap hit for Lechler was more than the 960k the Colts spent on Davis. The Texans spent more on Reed than the Colts did on Toler.



Complete unadulterated tripe. The Colts had so much cap space because they needed half a team due to having let folks go or not re-signing them.



No it shouldn't because as usual you are leaving out an essential ingredient - WHO IS ALREADY ON THE TEAM. A franchise with half a team to start the offseason is going to have more salary cap available AND have to spend a lot of it just to fill out spots. Your simple piece of paper is simplistic rather than enlightening. The Colts lost a crud load of starters 2011-12 so yes there would be a lot of replacements which is not the same as a lot of better players.

And as usual you are overlooking the fact the Colts are in a very temporary position of having a QB on a franchise contract.



Another made up fallacy. If you spend $5 mil on a player who you spend it on is not the $5 mil's fault. We could have had Quinn or Toler or any number of other players that went that offseason for $5 mil or 2 at $2.5 but we went with Reed and it bit them in the ass. That's on the selection of Reed, not the cap.
You offer nothing but rhetoric. We'll have to continue this discussion in December when you can give us your excuses why the Texans have a Top 10 pick and very little cap space. Until you draw the line down the paper you probably won't get it. Until you play a game of Monopoly starting with less cash than the other players you're probably not going to get it. Apparently you didn't read the last sentence of post #11. Read in you in Dec.
__________________
The GREATEST risk is not taking one. ....Bob, hire Eliot Wolf, then get the hell out of the way.

Last edited by Texian; 08-04-2014 at 01:37 PM.
Texian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014   #20
Texian
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,868
Rep Power: 66253 Texian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respectedTexian is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Top 5 Pre-Season QB, WR, OT; 2015 NFL Draft Eligible

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Or the way the Broncos/Pats etc... have done business seems to be working fairly well.

The Texans org has more in common with Jerrah's Cowboys and the way they are run than Texans fans are willing to admit.

One thing is for sure if maximizing profits and and putting a substandard product on the field is the best way to do business then McNair and Jerrah are 1st ballot HOFers.

BTW, although I would rank players a bit differently those are really good starting points.
Yes the Broncos and Pats did well in managing their cap to be able to sign some high profile starters. So much so I think the AFC Championship could come down to the Broncos vs The Pats.

Bob is Jerah, they operate one in the samer. The only difference is Bob is not as flamboyant, the salesman, nor the media hound Jerah is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
yeah, I was discouraged when we didn't fire Smith. Perhaps he truely learned from some of his mistakes. Expensive on the job training - The cost was just Franchise reputation, fan disposition/loyalty, and the third 1st overall pick in roughly a decade....perhaps he is no longer Rick Smith - noob GM. He's Rick Smith, lessons learned?
IMO he's still Rick Smith, Bob McNair's assistant. Listen carefully, is there any question who the GM is? is there any doubt who is the Assistant? http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-medi...6-c904327b706c





and

__________________
The GREATEST risk is not taking one. ....Bob, hire Eliot Wolf, then get the hell out of the way.
Texian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > College Football & the 2014 NFL Draft
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger