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Old 07-22-2005   #1
cuppacoffee
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Default Shula Takes Shot at Johnson

"Don Shula paid tribute during a telephone conference call Wednesday -- and in the process took a shot at his successor as Dolphins coach, Jimmy Johnson. Shula, unable to contain his disdain for Johnson, bristled when asked if Marino benefited from having only two coaches.

"You mean he had one coach," Shula said. "Look at the numbers. They speak for themselves."



My memory is not to good anymore. How many Superbowls did Shula and Marino win.

Don't get me wrong on this, I am not a Johnson fan.

I'll attach a link but it requires registering (free)

Link to miami herald

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Old 07-22-2005   #2
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Shula won 2 and lost 4. How many did Johnson get to again? It sure wasn't 6.

Marino lost 1 to Montana.

It isn't a secret that Shula and Johnson were two 'bulls in the same field' so no surprise that they 'locked horns'.

Marino has shown his usual class and refrains from commenting on this situation.

I also recently found out that Marino was courted by several teams upon his retirement announcement, including the Steelers with Cowher. He was tempted but retired in the same uniform he had played with throughout all the years.

That is the way to retire, unlike some of todays 'money grabbing' players who tarnish their fame with a cheap team switch at the 'twilight years', IMHO.
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Old 07-22-2005   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegr8fan
Shula won 2 and lost 4. How many did Johnson get to again? It sure wasn't 6.
Another way to put it would be to say it only took Jimmy Johnson 5 years to win as many Super Bowls as Don Shula did in 33 years. And Johnson's winning percentage in the Big Dance is far superior.
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Old 07-22-2005   #4
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"You mean he had one coach," Shula said. "Look at the numbers. They speak for themselves."

That quote speaks for itself.

In Miami, it was all about Marino's numbers. Shula took a lot of pride in coaching the most prolific QB ever. If the Dolphins were able to win while keeping Marino's numbers up then everything was fine. But when Johnson came in and made winning the priority, with an emphasis on improving the defense and running game Marino became disgruntled.

Johnson would have had a lot more success in Miami if he could have gotten rid of Marino right away, but that would have been a public relations nightmare in South Florida.
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Old 07-26-2005   #5
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improving the defense and running game Marino became disgruntled.
what running game? you must mean the Lamar Smith all time greatest RB ever improvement or something.

The funny thing about Miami and Shula, regarding the running game, was Miami was always noted for its hard hitting running game. Then Marino was drafted and it totally changed the offensive philosophy to a passing attack.

As for your percentages outlook Huge, I know that the Texans have a 100% winning record against the Cowboys in the regular season.

So you can scramble numbers however you want. Getting to 6 Superbowls is an accomplishment in and of itself, IMHO. Unless of course you are Buffalo.
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Old 07-27-2005   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
Another way to put it would be to say it only took Jimmy Johnson 5 years to win as many Super Bowls as Don Shula did in 33 years. And Johnson's winning percentage in the Big Dance is far superior.
Huge, you are also not being fair here. You are limiting Johnson's timeframe to the amount of time it took him to get to winning his second Super Bowl, 5 years. You then turn around and take Shula's entire coaching career and compare those two numbers.

To be fair, Johnson won his second Super Bowl after being a head coach for 5 years. Shula's early coaching career did not have a SB around to win, so when you consider he won SB VII and VIII, you can say it took him 8 years to win his two.

5 and 8 years are pretty close, when you consider some great coaches never win their first.

Also, both coaches won their two back to back. Shula won one of his with a perfect season. Johnson did not. You could say that the perfect season probably balances out the extra few years.

Shula's coaching rivals were Lombardi and Landry. Johnson's were Siefert and Levy. Edge: Shula.

And finally, Shula continued to coach for 22 years after his second SB win. Johnson flamed out and barely made it past 5 or 6 years. Edge: Shula.

And I grew up with the Cowboys, so I think I'm being fairly unbiased here...

Glen
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Old 07-27-2005   #7
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Jimmy Johnson paid his college players, don't those count as professional wins?
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Old 07-27-2005   #8
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Jimmy Johnson paid his college players, don't those count as professional wins?
LOL!
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Old 07-27-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegr8fan
As for your percentages outlook Huge, I know that the Texans have a 100% winning record against the Cowboys in the regular season.
Hey!! Below the belt!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gcolby
Huge, you are also not being fair here. You are limiting Johnson's timeframe to the amount of time it took him to get to winning his second Super Bowl, 5 years. You then turn around and take Shula's entire coaching career and compare those two numbers.

To be fair, Johnson won his second Super Bowl after being a head coach for 5 years. Shula's early coaching career did not have a SB around to win, so when you consider he won SB VII and VIII, you can say it took him 8 years to win his two.

5 and 8 years are pretty close, when you consider some great coaches never win their first.

Also, both coaches won their two back to back. Shula won one of his with a perfect season. Johnson did not. You could say that the perfect season probably balances out the extra few years.

Shula's coaching rivals were Lombardi and Landry. Johnson's were Siefert and Levy. Edge: Shula.

And finally, Shula continued to coach for 22 years after his second SB win. Johnson flamed out and barely made it past 5 or 6 years. Edge: Shula.

And I grew up with the Cowboys, so I think I'm being fairly unbiased here...

Glen
Many have been here long enough to be aware of Gr8t's admiration for the Dolphins (especially their '72 team). I'm one of those many. So I couldn't resist the opportunity to take a jab at him. I have a feeling he knows this in some small way. But I can see how others would've missed it.

In all honesty, I consider Shula to be one of the top 2 or 3 coaches ever (I know...kind of a "duh" statement). Some might point to his career wins but I'd point to his ability to adapt as a coach from the ground game of Larry Csonka to the passing game of Marino. Dan Marino has always been my favorite QB. He's the reason I wore #13 in every sport I played. Well, by "every" I mean football and baseball.

I never really considered Jimmy to be a great coach. He was a great motivator and was really good at surrounding himself with great assistants (Norv Turner, Dave Wannstedt, Butch Davis, Joe Avezzano, Hudson Houck). But better coach than Shula? No.
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Old 07-27-2005   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
I never really considered Jimmy to be a great coach. He was a great motivator and was really good at surrounding himself with great assistants (Norv Turner, Dave Wannstedt, Butch Davis, Joe Avezzano, Hudson Houck).
Depends on how you define the roles of a coach. From what I've read, his players liked him and played hard for him. He could get them up for a big game so he was a skilled motivator. And he undoubtedly had
a tremendous eye for identifying football talent. But don't think he was that
sharp on game day because in several of the games I saw him coaching on Sundays, he made some not so smart decisions from the perspective of game day strategy.
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Old 07-27-2005   #11
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Originally Posted by nunusguy
don't think he was that
sharp on game day because in several of the games I saw him coaching on Sundays, he made some not so smart decisions from the perspective of game day strategy.
Can you elaborate?

I believe you, but the Cowboys sure did flame out after he left. They surely never stood on the sidelines holding hands and praying for miracles while he was there - they were the masters of their own destiny.
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Old 07-27-2005   #12
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Originally Posted by rafterticket
they were the masters of their own destiny.
Honestly the glory days of the Cowboys are so far back in anceint history, actually in another century, I can't really remember any specifics. Just kinda a general, vague sort of recollection when the Cowboys and Johnson were riding high.
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Old 07-27-2005   #13
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Originally Posted by thegr8fan
That is the way to retire, unlike some of todays 'money grabbing' players who tarnish their fame with a cheap team switch at the 'twilight years', IMHO.
Umm, I hardly see it as money grabbing, and more of playing out of love of the game.
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Old 07-27-2005   #14
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Umm, I hardly see it as money grabbing, and more of playing out of love of the game.

see: Jerry Rice, 2005 Broncos, minimum vet salary
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Old 07-27-2005   #15
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all in good fun Huge. I don't hang out here as often and I am sure some don't even recognize thegr8fan name.

I still got that seat waiting for you when you get to a game Huge. This year is almost wide open on the invitation, as the Mrs. won't be making many, if any, games.

As for the Shula/Johnson debate, I personally don't see it even being a close comparison. gcolby listed most of the reason that I would readily agree with.

but here is the best one. Shula is the only head coach with a perfect season, EVER. When someone figures out how to tarnish that one seemingly simple accomplishment, then I will consider them as 'competition' for Shula.
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