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Old 07-15-2014   #221
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
The locker room changed in 2012 . They didn't have the same grit that allowed TJ YATES to win a playoff game . That 2012 team couldn't win a game to clinch home field advantage .
Nope they sure didn't, they had to win what one out of the last 4 games to clinch and flopped. Thats why i say 2011 was easily the best team we have ever had IMO. And that was without AJ for a good chunk of the season, and without Schaub !
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Old 07-15-2014   #222
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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Your problem is you only look at it from 1 black and white point of view & ignore everything else....even when everything is facts staring you right in the face. The issues we discuss in here are not nearly as simple as you try to portray it them to be.

What facts am I missing? Please explain to me how the 2012 team was a better team than 2011 team without Winston, Ryans, Brisel, Vickers, Jones on the roster. Clearly I am missing something.

You did the same thing in the Bortles thread....swore up and down the Texans were in love with Bortles and he was going to be the pick b/c of this..& that's it; nothing else matters...not even the genetic freak pass rusher who was thought to be the consensus #1 pick by most going into the 2013 college football season and the NFL offseason. Then when they picked Clowney your ego couldn't handle it so instead of owning your fallacious prediction you started copping pleas and blasting the front office who was "afraid" to pass on Clowney.

I liked Bortles for 1 simple reason, 4 game winning drives. The same reason why Bill Walsh drafted Joe Montana and Bill Belichick drafted Tom Brady. I thought at the time as desperate as the Texans were for a QB taking a page out of the Walsh and Belichick playbook was the right thing to do. I didn't like Clowney because he only had 3 sacks and his personality doesn't seem to fit the profile of player driven to be the best. YES and I still believe IMHO that Bob McNair knowing an Andrew Luck was not in the draft did not have the stomach for and was terrified of taking a chance of having to live through another 4 years of David Carr part II and therefore opted for the alumnus. Makes perfect sense to me - My opinion hasn't changed.

I don't have a problem with anything you've been saying....at least in this thread...In fact, i sort of agree with you.

But to act like the biggest reason why the Colts turned it around so quickly was because they got themselves out of salary cap hell and that was it...well that's a dishonest argument. They did a whole host of other things to accentuate that effect................starting with Andrew Luck falling in their lap...They then had what looks to be a helluva draft.

If 1 of the 2 above variables does not happen the whole plan is derailed & they likely are looking at a 4-6 win season in Luck's rookie year......Like the Jags regardless of the 40-60 million dollars they cleared in cap space that you keep bringing up.

No doubt about Andrew Luck, no denying that. However IMHO I don't think the Colts could have achieved the success as quickly as they did if they didn't have $70 million to spend or if they had a similar Salary Cap as the Texans. Also my opinion hasn't changed, the Jags will be a better a much better team because of the money they now have to spend on free agents.

Lastly, you can lookk around the league and find at least 2 other teams with all kinds of cap space and see that they still stink. It's not that i don't have time to do your exercise...it's just i don't need to b/c its silly.
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You know what that means right ? That we had to many good players on the roster, because lets be honest. Good players cost lots of money right ?
True! Also true, bad contracts and some players making more than their worth AND a poorly managed salary cap.
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Old 07-15-2014   #223
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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We were only 10-6 because the loss of Schaub. I truly believe with they way he was playing at the time and the talent we had, that was the best team we had and the best chance we had at a Superbowl.
Yep, we were blowing out teams that year, but it all went downhill after Schaub got hurt.

If it wasn't for that freak accident to his toe, who knows how far the Texans would have gone.
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Old 07-15-2014   #224
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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They had the best chance to make it to a SB but they weren't better...People forget that the 2011 schedule was easy as hell and we only went 10-6. Our 2012 schedule was extremely tough and we posted a better record and won lots of close games that year before we were exposed by GB/NE.

Both teams would've had to go thru NE and beat them at home to have advanced. The only difference is that the 2011 team would've met up with them in the AFC championship game if they somehow beat Baltimore. the 2012 team had to play them 1 game sooner in the AFC divisional round.

In any event i don't see the 2011 team with or without Schaub beating NE in foxboro b/c it was our 1st foray in the playoffs and NE has this guy under center named Tom Brady...yeah he's pretty good.
Plus the division got much easier with the absence of Peyton Manning and Jeff Fisher.
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Old 07-15-2014   #225
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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True! Also true, bad contracts and some players making more than their worth AND a poorly managed salary cap.
You can't pay guys at non premium positions premium money .
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Old 07-15-2014   #226
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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The locker room changed in 2012 . They didn't have the same grit that allowed TJ YATES to win a playoff game . That 2012 team couldn't win a game to clinch home field advantage .
eh, i disagree. I think its highly likely we get our asses handed to us if we face NE in both instances...with or without Schaub. He was playing well & we were blowing folks out in 2011...but we were also playing a last place schedule too. in 2012, we played a 1st place schedule against teams that had top flight qb's. Infinitely harder to navigate.
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Old 07-15-2014   #227
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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What ?
I was quoting myself.
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Old 07-15-2014   #228
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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eh, i disagree. I think its highly likely we get our asses handed to us if we face NE in both instances...with or without Schaub. He was playing well & we were blowing folks out in 2011...but we were also playing a last place schedule too. in 2012, we played a 1st place schedule against teams that had top flight qb's. Infinitely harder to navigate.
TJ Yates clinched a playoff game on the road vs a playoff team in 20011 .
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Old 07-15-2014   #229
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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Plus the division got much easier with the absence of Peyton Manning and Jeff Fisher.
That's what im saying...I don't think that 2011 was better than 2012's version, i just think that for once, the Texans had a favorable situation with the last place schedule, the division being weaker with the incumbent division winner being in transition and finally having an acceptable talent level to seriously compete. Over half the teams' wins that year came from beating teams in the cellar and we lost 2 of our last 3 games to 2 of those teams.
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Old 07-15-2014   #230
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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TJ Yates clinched a playoff game on the road vs a playoff team in 20011 .
And??? he got his ass handed to him the following week by a 6-10 carolina panther team......at home no less. Where was this "grit" you spoke of for the 2011 team then?
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Old 07-15-2014   #231
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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Congratulations! Kudos to you, one of the few not afraid to stand up for what they believe. As a young lad I was Kool Aid drinker also. After one to many disappointments the Kool Aid lost it's endure and promises. As I got older I realized that people like Bob McNair and Jerry Jones make as many mistakes as you and me, sometimes they make more.

With Respect.
I'm not a kool-aid drinker because I think that guys like Bob McNair or Jerry Jones know better than I do or would do a better job at running the team than I would, I'm a kool-aid drinker because I don't have control over the situation and I don't really even know what's going on. If this was a situation I had control over, I wouldn't be drinking kool-aid, I'd be looking on the pessimistic side and instituting changes that I think would make things work better.

Would those be different changes than Bob McNair made? I really don't know. I don't have access to the same information he has. I don't know if the information I do have access to is reliable and/or correct and I assume that it's not. Every time I've been involved in something that was reported in the news, the news has gotten it wrong or messed something up. So I don't trust any news sources and I know that what I read is just a fraction of the information available to the people on the ground, so to speak.

Being pessimistic and awful-izing and looking on the bleak side of things you have no control over and that you don't have full information about is just asking to be miserable and upset. I'm too old for that.
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Old 07-15-2014   #232
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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Conventional Wisdom is the herd is usually wrong. In this case, IF the herd was right a majority of the time and I was wrong your comments may have some validity. However that is not the case.
did you just say that everyone is wrong but you?
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Old 07-15-2014   #233
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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I'm not a kool-aid drinker because I think that guys like Bob McNair or Jerry Jones know better than I do or would do a better job at running the team than I would, I'm a kool-aid drinker because I don't have control over the situation and I don't really even know what's going on. If this was a situation I had control over, I wouldn't be drinking kool-aid, I'd be looking on the pessimistic side and instituting changes that I think would make things work better.

Would those be different changes than Bob McNair made? I really don't know. I don't have access to the same information he has. I don't know if the information I do have access to is reliable and/or correct and I assume that it's not. Every time I've been involved in something that was reported in the news, the news has gotten it wrong or messed something up. So I don't trust any news sources and I know that what I read is just a fraction of the information available to the people on the ground, so to speak.

Being pessimistic and awful-izing and looking on the bleak side of things you have no control over and that you don't have full information about is just asking to be miserable and upset. I'm too old for that.
We are wired different. I do agree that news is fleeting and often just plain wrong. That's why I try to dig a little deeper to connect the dots. I can be wrong connecting the dots but sometimes the dots are prophetic.

It was only this year that I came to suspect that Bob McNair was much more like Jerry Jones than folks suspected or wanted to admit. When info leaked that Ed Reed was being pursued and the D coaches hadn't been consulted, we got our first look behind the green curtain.

After the loss in JAX McNair admitted to stewing in a fit of anger on the long plane trip home. The next morning we got see McNair display a minor temper tantrum and announced hesitation and apparently w/o consultation that Case Keenum is the starting QB. Again another look behind the curtain and the well managed shine and polish become a bit tarnished.

Now that you've some dots and a pattern of behavior, looking back it become easier to deduce other decision likely made by Bob; Hiring Wade and promising him (2) 1st rd draft picks to take the job, Arian Foster's contract, Cushing's and Schaub's contract, back loading contracts because of cap restraints, restructuring contacts because we have the money and we're going to spend it, all decisions made by Mr. McNair and his Win at all cost attitude. Also makes sense why Rick Smith wasn't fired, he wasn't guilty of any wrong doings. Looking back now it makes a lot more sense. Unfortunately now, being a Texans fan, is a lot like being a Cowboy fan. All those Texans fans who hate the Cowboys because of Jerry, the joke is now on them (me being one).



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Old 07-15-2014   #234
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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did you just say that everyone is wrong but you?
Nope, what I said is the herd (group think) is often wrong. Where I was right was my last sentence in my last response to you. Let me explain it another way that you might understand;

This message board for the most part is a love fest for the Houston Texans. If you come here and don't want to play by those rules and want to discuss their warts and short comings, then you are going to be on the outside looking in. It won't be tolerated! Expect to be treated like a leper. Expect the objective sports announcer syndrome. I understand that!
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Old 07-15-2014   #235
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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This message board for the most part is a love fest for the Houston Texans. If you come here and don't want to play by those rules and want to discuss their warts and short comings, then you are going to be on the outside looking in. It won't be tolerated! Expect to be treated like a leper. Expect the objective sports announcer syndrome. I understand that!
Total bull$hit.
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Old 07-15-2014   #236
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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We are wired different. I do agree that news is fleeting and often just plain wrong. That's why I try to dig a little deeper to connect the dots. I can be wrong connecting the dots but sometimes the dots are prophetic.

It was only this year that I came to suspect that Bob McNair was much more like Jerry Jones than folks suspected or wanted to admit. When info leaked that Ed Reed was being pursued and the D coaches hadn't been consulted, we got our first look behind the green curtain.
A huge mistake people make is thinking that they know someone famous and that they understand why they do things or who they are. All we know are the personas that they present to the media and whatever leaks out about them.

I don't know Jerry Jones and I don't know Bob McNair. I know that it's been said that they're friends, but I don't know that.

I'll make fun of Jerry Jones simply because he's the enemy and he's someone you hear a lot about. If he owned a team like the Dolphins or the Chargers, I really wouldn't care about him at all.

But when it comes down to it, I really don't think they're that different. They're both guys who made a ton of money and they didn't do that by being sweet and nice. Both of those guys are ruthless and both of them want to win. They're going about it in different ways at this point, trying different strategies, but football is a diversion to them. This is Billionaire Boy Madden. I wouldn't be surprised if McNair gets fed up and goes the Jerry route, firing Smith and becoming the GM himself or putting his son in that position; I wouldn't be surprised that he chucks the whole "patience is a virtue" approach and tries the Dan Snyder route.

That doesn't matter to me. I have a team I root for so I root for them. Thinking that you're digging deeper and connecting dots is simply a diversion. If it makes you happy, then great. But it's like writing fiction, you're just making up stories that fit the facts you choose to fit. It's not reality.
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Old 07-15-2014   #237
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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Some folks can handle the the truth and some folks can't. Go somewhere else if you need someone to blow Texans smoke up your hiney.
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The fact that I make you feel like a simpleton is your problem not mine.
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Clearly this comment is a result of your minimum wage mentality.
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Let me explain it another way that you might understand;
Noticing a trend? The amount of condecension displayed in here has made most (if not all) discard any potential "pearls of wisdom" you hope to impart.

THAT attitude is what gets you "treated like a leper", not any mythical "love fest" that you alone perceive.

"Salary Cap Hell" and Texans success isn't as fully intertwined as you would have folks believe. Injuries and hubris in the Texans F.O. are just as responsible, without bringing financials into the discussion.
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Old 07-15-2014   #238
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent




Just ignore the condescension, y'all.
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Old 07-15-2014   #239
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
And??? he got his ass handed to him the following week by a 6-10 carolina panther team......at home no less. Where was this "grit" you spoke of for the 2011 team then?
Yeah but we went into Baltimore and lost 20-13 with TJ Yates at QB. People can say what they want but that year our defense was playing really good football, and the offense was loaded. I believe we would of won with Schaub.

And why are people dogging the texans for taking advantage of a division without Manning ? Anyone could of taken advantage of it, the titans, jags but it was us.

And then last season every aspect of our team was bad, QB play, D-line minus Watt, the entire secondary. The LB corp was depleted, and we had Newton over there giving a free pass to everyone he faced. I blame our play more on the coaching than the players TBH.
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Old 07-15-2014   #240
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Default Re: #Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
A huge mistake people make is thinking that they know someone famous and that they understand why they do things or who they are. All we know are the personas that they present to the media and whatever leaks out about them.

I don't know Jerry Jones and I don't know Bob McNair. I know that it's been said that they're friends, but I don't know that.

I'll make fun of Jerry Jones simply because he's the enemy and he's someone you hear a lot about. If he owned a team like the Dolphins or the Chargers, I really wouldn't care about him at all.

But when it comes down to it, I really don't think they're that different. They're both guys who made a ton of money and they didn't do that by being sweet and nice. Both of those guys are ruthless and both of them want to win. They're going about it in different ways at this point, trying different strategies, but football is a diversion to them. This is Billionaire Boy Madden. I wouldn't be surprised if McNair gets fed up and goes the Jerry route, firing Smith and becoming the GM himself or putting his son in that position; I wouldn't be surprised that he chucks the whole "patience is a virtue" approach and tries the Dan Snyder route.

That doesn't matter to me. I have a team I root for so I root for them. Thinking that you're digging deeper and connecting dots is simply a diversion. If it makes you happy, then great. But it's like writing fiction, you're just making up stories that fit the facts you choose to fit. It's not reality.
Wade is on record saying he was never consulted on the decision to sign Reed. That's a fact and a reality.

Our opinions defer in that I believe Bob is already the defacto GM and Smith is really Bob's assistant. The difference is, unlike Jerry, Bob prefers being a silent GM.

Another difference is I believe the "Patience is a virtue" is a myth. Some of the player signings and new contract timings is anything but patience. I get a sense there is real expediency to get things done. A Win Now at All Cost attitude.
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