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Old 06-30-2014   #261
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Default Re: Bill names QB Fitzpatrick starter

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Always cool to divert from the real argument.

Around here it's sometimes best.
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Old 06-30-2014   #262
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Default Re: Bill names QB Fitzpatrick starter

I believe in a Savage future!

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Old 06-30-2014   #263
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Default Re: Bill names QB Fitzpatrick starter

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Around here it's sometimes best.
Great response.
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Old 06-30-2014   #264
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick names QB Bill starter

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We need a good QB, and we don't have one.

Next?
Thank you Thorn.... Very well stated....




Now, how are you doing with the bird shyte on my truck??
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Old 06-30-2014   #265
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Default Re: Bill names QB Fitzpatrick starter

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Always cool to divert from the real argument.

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Around here it's sometimes best.
One of the reasons I'm still around (barely). "diversion".......
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Old 07-01-2014   #266
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick names QB Bill starter

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Thank you Thorn.... Very well stated....




Now, how are you doing with the bird shyte on my truck??
I got my iron chipper and my hammer, but your trucks sheet metal is a tad thin. Oops.
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Old 07-02-2014   #267
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick names QB Bill starter

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Now, how are you doing with the bird shyte on my truck??
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I got my iron chipper and my hammer, but your trucks sheet metal is a tad thin. Oops.
Before


After Thorn's repair job



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Old 07-02-2014   #268
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Default Re: Bill names QB Fitzpatrick starter

Every time I read this title, I think it says BILLS and I immediately think this is an old thread about Fitz starting for the Bills.
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Old 07-02-2014   #269
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien names QB Fitzpatrick starter

Too many excuses for Keenum. The offensive line looks horrible when you hold the ball forever and can't recognize a blitz, remember the HWSNBN era? He looked "good" for the first few games because defenses didn't have tape on him, as soon as they figured out his weaknesses he was downright terrible. You can't give a guy a complete mulligan. You have to ask the question that if Keenum is a terrible NFL quarterback with no future in he league, how would things have been any different than what we witnessed last year?
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Old 07-02-2014   #270
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien names QB Fitzpatrick starter

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Originally Posted by jradMIT View Post
Too many excuses for Keenum. The offensive line looks horrible when you hold the ball forever and can't recognize a blitz, remember the HWSNBN era? He looked "good" for the first few games because defenses didn't have tape on him, as soon as they figured out his weaknesses he was downright terrible. You can't give a guy a complete mulligan. You have to ask the question that if Keenum is a terrible NFL quarterback with no future in he league, how would things have been any different than what we witnessed last year?
Nobody said he gets a complete mulligan but, you have to factor in the terrible team and coaching around him. If you don't, then you just have an anti-Keenum agenda. Further, if he's so terrible with no future in the league, why does Bill O'Brien still have him on the team?
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Old 07-02-2014   #271
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien names QB Fitzpatrick starter

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Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
Nobody said he gets a complete mulligan but, you have to factor in the terrible team and coaching around him. If you don't, then you just have an anti-Keenum agenda. Further, if he's so terrible with no future in the league, why does Bill O'Brien still have him on the team?
You've seen our QB depth, right?
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Old 07-02-2014   #272
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien names QB Fitzpatrick starter

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Too many excuses for Keenum. The offensive line looks horrible when you hold the ball forever and can't recognize a blitz, remember the HWSNBN era? He looked "good" for the first few games because defenses didn't have tape on him, as soon as they figured out his weaknesses he was downright terrible. You can't give a guy a complete mulligan. You have to ask the question that if Keenum is a terrible NFL quarterback with no future in he league, how would things have been any different than what we witnessed last year?
The misconception is that Keenum was terrible against the blitz.
No, he wasn't great, but he was better than many known names despite the blitz getting to him early. (Look at time to pressure when QBs face a blitz.)

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...and-the-blitz/

The frustration of a losing season, IMO, renders people way more critical than they should.

Read the whole series on QBs by PFF.
No matter how one slices it, Keenum's level of play last year was starter-equivalence.
Granted the middle of the third tier is nothing to write home about.
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Old 07-02-2014   #273
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien names QB Fitzpatrick starter

The notion that Keenum held on to the ball too long when blitzed and/or pressured is also unfounded.

Look at the time to pressure in blitzes and/or pressure.
The average time defenders got to him was in the top five.
Despite that, his QBR and his PFF grades are still better than quite a fair number of other QBs.
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Old 07-02-2014   #274
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien names QB Fitzpatrick starter

Another misconception is that Keenum doesn't do well from under center, whether because of his height or the system he came from in college.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...focus-shotgun/

Here, PFF has him rated at #11 overall.
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Old 07-02-2014   #275
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien names QB Fitzpatrick starter

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
The notion that Keenum held on to the ball too long when blitzed and/or pressured is also unfounded.

Look at the time to pressure in blitzes and/or pressure.
The average time defenders got to him was in the top five.
Despite that, his QBR and his PFF grades are still better than quite a fair number of other QBs.
I understand the numbers, but you have to think that if defenses saw that as a weakness of his, they were going to dial up blitz after blitz. I would be interested to see the frequency of the blitzes per drop back. The problem I saw with him repeatedly was that he was terrible at throwing the ball away, he took way too many sacks. On top of that the sacks he took often were of the big loss variety.

I am in no way anti Keenum, for what its worth he was miles ahead of Yates, but the guy did not demonstrate the decision making skills of an acceptable NFL starter. Maybe against his peers he passes with a C-, but that says more about starting QB play than anything else. The guy flashed, but he too often didn't demonstrate consistency for most of the game.
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Old 07-02-2014   #276
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien names QB Fitzpatrick starter

I am not sure you can draw a broad conclusion from 64 drop backs. The sample size is small, yet he dropped back 213 times from the gun.


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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Another misconception is that Keenum doesn't do well from under center, whether because of his height or the system he came from in college.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...focus-shotgun/

Here, PFF has him rated at #11 overall.
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Old 07-02-2014   #277
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien names QB Fitzpatrick starter

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Originally Posted by jradMIT View Post
I understand the numbers, but you have to think that if defenses saw that as a weakness of his, they were going to dial up blitz after blitz. The problem I saw with him repeatedly was that he was terrible at throwing the ball away, he took way too many sacks. On top of that the sacks he took often were of the big loss variety.

I am in no way anti Keenum, for what its worth he was miles ahead of Yates, but the guy did not demonstrate the decision making skills of an acceptable NFL starter. Maybe against his peers he passes with a C-, but that says more about starting QB play than anything else. The guy flashed, but he too often didn't demonstrate consistency for most of the game.
He was technically a rookie, with virtually no running game. He came in when the team had already lost faith, our coach had a stroke, and did not exactly help keenum out if you will. I have to say considering how horribly you think he played

here's how much we lost by with keenum as the starter by starts

1st - 1 point
2nd - 3 points
3rd - 3 points
4th - 5 points
5th - 7 points
6th - 3 points
7th - 7 points
8th - 22 points


And remember Keenum had no Foster for any of his starts besides the KC game where foster went out in the 1st quarter and was done for the season.
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Old 07-02-2014   #278
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien names QB Fitzpatrick starter

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He was technically a rookie, with virtually no running game. He came in when the team had already lost faith, our coach had a stroke, and did not exactly help keenum out if you will. I have to say considering how horribly you think he played

here's how much we lost by with keenum as the starter by starts

1st - 1 point
2nd - 3 points
3rd - 3 points
4th - 5 points
5th - 7 points
6th - 3 points
7th - 7 points
8th - 22 points


And remember Keenum had no Foster for any of his starts besides the KC game where foster went out in the 1st quarter and was done for the season.
I don't think its accurate to judge a quarterback but how close the games are, it completely writes off how important the defense/ST were, he doesn't play defense does he?. Its better to look at the yds/att, yds/play or even yds/possession. I'm sure somebody has those handy.
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Old 07-02-2014   #279
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien names QB Fitzpatrick starter

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I don't think its accurate to judge a quarterback but how close the games are, it completely writes off how important the defense/ST were, he doesn't play defense does he?. Its better to look at the yds/att, yds/play or even yds/possession. I'm sure somebody has those handy.
Our defense allowed 24 points per game and had 6 take aways in the 8 starts keenum had. And do i really need to tell you what ST did haha.

And QBs are judged by wins even though they don't play defense.
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Old 07-02-2014   #280
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Default Re: Bill O'Brien names QB Fitzpatrick starter

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...The problem I saw with him repeatedly was that he was terrible at throwing the ball away, he took way too many sacks. On top of that the sacks he took often were of the big loss variety...
But this is something which is very correctable; and in fact, Case has said he is working on this.
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