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Old 06-01-2014   #61
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

Each year is different.
It just so happens that there wasn't any QB that I think is the type of franchise QB I hope for at 1.1

If Mariota had come out, I would be cheering for the Texans to draft him.
Forget about Fitz.
Save that money to sign another FA at a position of need; a situational pass rusher for example, or an ILB.
Use the fourth round for Savage and see if you can package it with some of the late round picks or a future pick to grab a RT.

You have Mariota, Keenum, and Yates at QB.

Let them compete for the job.

You would have a better Oline to protect them regardless who wins the job.

Also, obviously, in this scenario, Keenum is most definitely highly unlikely in the plan for the Texans future.
The Texans would definitely spend all their resources to help Mariota become a franchise QB, and I would not have any problem with it.
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Old 06-01-2014   #62
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

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Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
What I am learning from the recent outbreak of Keenum threads is that he cannot be judged (unless it is in a good way, of course) until he is surrounded by elite talent, and in a system designed specifically for him.

Good deal.
I don't agree with that. He's got faults and he's made mistakes. The real question is can he be judged "ultimately" at this point? I'm not convinced that he can be.

I think we're very, very close to being able to do so.

If he doesn't step up and perform right now, in this system and with all the work to prepare him to be the starter than anyone could ask for then you have to move on. He got a chance to start in 2013. I think everyone will agree that he wasn't expected to start in 2013 and that he really wasn't ready. He came in and enjoyed a brief period of success on adrenaline and a general lack of film existing on him. Once defenses got a look at him they solved him pretty quickly.

I think OB will be the judge of whether or not Keenum is done. He'll see whether or not Keenum learned anything in his time starting. I'm satisfied with whatever decision OB makes. Whoever he picks I expect the entire fanbase to get behind.

I also think that no matter who he picks it's just as likely that we aren't looking at the long-term starter and that's fine. If Case starts for us, does well in 2014 but OB thinks he needs to upgrade the position anyway then so be it.
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Old 06-01-2014   #63
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

Another thing I want to mention, which I had mentioned before, that is Belichik never neglected the offensive line.

Whether guys were drafted or brought in, he always had good depth there.
Their current Oline has two first rounders and a second rounder in the foil.

Before that he had Matt Light in the second and a multiple probowlers in Brian Waters to help the transition.

Before that he had Nick Kaczur in the third round at RT and so on and so forth.

That guy never neglected the trench.
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Old 06-01-2014   #64
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that most QB's need an OL and/or a RB to really be successful. I want to see the guy with no protection or running game who wins more than he loses. That's guy's going to be spectacular. I'm not saying he doesn't exist but Peyton Manning and Dan Marino don't come around very often and even then they don't win it all without some help.

This year he either seizes the opportunity and takes the starting spot on his own, then runs with it or we gotta keep turning over rocks until we find the guy who does.
Unfortunately for the Texans, you don't have to look any further than Indianapolis for that QB! Our only hope is that they keep making trades for players like Trent Richardson and giving away their #1 picks.
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Old 06-01-2014   #65
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

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That's the guy you're going to hang your hat on for this? 2009 Matt Schaub of the 9-7, barely-won-more-than-they-lost 2009 Houston Texans?

Did you look at who they beat? Aside from a disinterested New England team with jack **** to play for they beat one team with a winning record.

My point stands even if we allow the fairly pathetic 2009 Texans into the argument. Damn few QB's in the history of the NFL ever did much of anything without a running game and some protection. They're kind of important. Even 2009 Schaub had a running game for two of his "epic" 9 wins that year. Arian Foster averaged over 100 yards a game in those last two wins.
Yep, That was the yr I realized Kubiak wasn't the man for the job. Schedule of cupcakes and the best he could do was 9-7. Then it was followed by acting as if the organization had really accomplished something and during the offseason Kubiak decided to have an elective surgery during the combine. This screamed of an organization resting on its laurels. The 6-10 2010 season followed and that still wasn't enough to hold people responsible. Finally when the team that was built on a house of cards had a few unlucky breaks and the Texans org became the laughingstock of the NFL McNair saw the light and atleast changed HC's. Hopefully if the same thing happens under the BOB/Smith regime McNair wont be as patient.
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Old 06-01-2014   #66
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

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Originally Posted by Insideop View Post
Unfortunately for the Texans, you don't have to look any further than Indianapolis for that QB! Our only hope is that they keep making trades for players like Trent Richardson and giving away their #1 picks.
The Colts 1743 rush yards and 15 TDs they averaged 108 yards per game
The Texans 1743 rush yards and 7 TDs we averaged 108 yards per game

The Colts were sacked 32 times

The Texans were sacked 42 times

So really Luck had the advantage as far as stats go.
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Old 06-01-2014   #67
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

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I didn't see what you are saying you noticed. I saw the bootlegs being called and I saw Keenum rolling out quite regularly. I also saw him fixating on certain receivers with his eyes, I saw him having a hard time figuring out what to do with the ball.
There were a couple of situational things as well. Twice I can remember he took a snap in the endzone & took his time surveying the field. One time, he tried to scramble & "make something happen"

I'm screaming at the TV, "You're in the f'ckn endzone you moron."

Or the third & longs.... Hello.... the defense is coming to get you. But he had no clue.


I don't like Andrew Luck, I just don't think he's the guy that everybody thinks he is. But that sumbtch understands the game enough to recognize what's going on & when he should get it out quick, give a hard count, pump fake...




/sigh.....
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Old 06-01-2014   #68
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

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Anyways like i said i am pulling for Savage personally. I would be happy if Savage or Keenum win the job honestly.
If Tj or Fitz were better, why wouldn't you be happy?
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Old 06-01-2014   #69
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

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The Colts 1743 rush yards and 15 TDs they averaged 108 yards per game
The Texans 1743 rush yards and 7 TDs we averaged 108 yards per game

The Colts were sacked 32 times

The Texans were sacked 42 times

So really Luck had the advantage as far as stats go.
Wow... didn't realize it was that close.

Passing, they completed 60% of their passes for 3,725 yards (6.8 ypa) 23 TDs, 10 Ints, passer rating of 86.5

We completed 59% of our passes, for 3,813 yards (6.6 ypa) 19 TDs 22 Ints, passer rating of 74

Heck, we can be 11-5 next year.
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Old 06-01-2014   #70
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

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Wow... didn't realize it was that close.

Passing, they completed 60% of their passes for 3,725 yards (6.8 ypa) 23 TDs, 10 Ints, passer rating of 86.5

We completed 59% of our passes, for 3,813 yards (6.6 ypa) 19 TDs 22 Ints, passer rating of 74

Heck, we can be 11-5 next year.
The Texans biggest problems were turnovers , negative plays and the lack of turnovers they forced .... They made more and forced less mistakes than the opponents.
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Old 06-01-2014   #71
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
The Colts 1743 rush yards and 15 TDs they averaged 108 yards per game
The Texans 1743 rush yards and 7 TDs we averaged 108 yards per game

The Colts were sacked 32 times

The Texans were sacked 42 times

So really Luck had the advantage as far as stats go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Wow... didn't realize it was that close.

Passing, they completed 60% of their passes for 3,725 yards (6.8 ypa) 23 TDs, 10 Ints, passer rating of 86.5

We completed 59% of our passes, for 3,813 yards (6.6 ypa) 19 TDs 22 Ints, passer rating of 74

Heck, we can be 11-5 next year.
The important number among those stats is TDs (I know, "duuh" right?)
Foster alone had at least 15 TD in two of his past three full seasons.
2010 - 16 rushing / 2 receiving (2220 yds from scrimmage)
2011 - 10 rushing / 2 receiving (1841 yds from scrimmage)
2012 - 15 rushing / 2 receiving (1641 Yds from scrimmage)

Maybe having a healthy Foster all of last year would have given the whole team a "real chance".
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Old 06-01-2014   #72
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Maybe having a healthy Foster all of last year would have given the whole team a "real chance".
Nah... there was a serious lack of givafuk even with Arian in the game.
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Old 06-01-2014   #73
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

Arian should focus on taking the handoff and finding the hole and do his part, not get involved in the QB role. I'd love to see Arian react if Ryan Fitzpatrick said that Ben Tate gave us a better chance to win.
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Old 06-01-2014   #74
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

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Arian should focus on taking the handoff and finding the hole and do his part, not get involved in the QB role. I'd love to see Arian react if Ryan Fitzpatrick said that Ben Tate gave us a better chance to win.
Wait... what!?
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Old 06-02-2014   #75
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

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That's the guy you're going to hang your hat on for this? 2009 Matt Schaub of the 9-7, barely-won-more-than-they-lost 2009 Houston Texans?

Did you look at who they beat? Aside from a disinterested New England team with jack **** to play for they beat one team with a winning record.

My point stands even if we allow the fairly pathetic 2009 Texans into the argument. Damn few QB's in the history of the NFL ever did much of anything without a running game and some protection. They're kind of important. Even 2009 Schaub had a running game for two of his "epic" 9 wins that year. Arian Foster averaged over 100 yards a game in those last two wins.
Sure, you asked for an example, I gave you one. You then proceeded to move the goal post in your response.

So if the Texans benefit from a soft schedule, and by some miracle, make and/or win the AFCCG, or the SB, will you then say, "Yeah, but"? Will the city of Houston refuse throw a ticker tape parade if the Texans win the Super Bowl because of record or schedule?

The fact of the matter is, there are plenty of examples out there of QB's who won despite not having a running game or a defense which is exactly what Schaub did in 2009. Barely or not, he won more than he lost, and he did it with no running game and no defense.
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Old 06-02-2014   #76
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

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Sure, you asked for an example, I gave you one. You then proceeded to move the goal post in your response.

So if the Texans benefit from a soft schedule, and by some miracle, make and/or win the AFCCG, or the SB, will you then say, "Yeah, but"? Will the city of Houston refuse throw a ticker tape parade if the Texans win the Super Bowl because of record or schedule?

The fact of the matter is, there are plenty of examples out there of QB's who won despite not having a running game or a defense which is exactly what Schaub did in 2009. Barely or not, he won more than he lost, and he did it with no running game and no defense.
True

And because Kubiak refused to play Foster (He was teaching him some kind of lesson. SMH) until the last 2 games of the season, after they lost control of their destiny. Kubiak's hardheadedness cost the team a chance at its 1st playoff appearance. But I'm sure Foster learned something. LOL

2009 Schaub was good enough to win a SB. IMHO
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Old 06-02-2014   #77
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
The Colts 1743 rush yards and 15 TDs they averaged 108 yards per game
The Texans 1743 rush yards and 7 TDs we averaged 108 yards per game

The Colts were sacked 32 times

The Texans were sacked 42 times

So really Luck had the advantage as far as stats go.
Take Luck away from the Colts and put Schaub/Keenum in there and they would be 2-14. Put Luck on the Texans last season and we may have won 12 or more games. Agree?
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Old 06-02-2014   #78
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

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Sure, you asked for an example, I gave you one. You then proceeded to move the goal post in your response.

So if the Texans benefit from a soft schedule, and by some miracle, make and/or win the AFCCG, or the SB, will you then say, "Yeah, but"? Will the city of Houston refuse throw a ticker tape parade if the Texans win the Super Bowl because of record or schedule?

The fact of the matter is, there are plenty of examples out there of QB's who won despite not having a running game or a defense which is exactly what Schaub did in 2009. Barely or not, he won more than he lost, and he did it with no running game and no defense.
So it's going to be like that then is it. Ok well then in 2009 Schaub had a running game for his last two wins. That means Matt Schaub was a .500 QB in 2009 and did not win more than he lost in the scenario as discussed (without a RB and/or without protection from his OL).

Happy? Your example is now 7-7 without a RB and/or protection. Impressive.

I gave two examples (Manning and Marino) of QB's who won consistently without having either of those two things in place on a regular basis. The fact remains that there are not "plenty of examples" of QB's being successful for long careers while playing in a talent vacuum.

Nobody said anything about not having a defense. Plenty of QB's have won without a defense. At least until the playoffs came around.
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Old 06-02-2014   #79
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

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Take Luck away from the Colts and put Schaub/Keenum in there and they would be 2-14. Put Luck on the Texans last season and we may have won 12 or more games. Agree?
No i dont think so, the texans had so many more problems than just QB last season. From Foster and tate both getting hurt, to the defense not helping them at all. If we had luck i still see us only winning 5-6 games at most.
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Old 06-02-2014   #80
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Default Re: Arian foster Gives Case Keenum a real chance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
True

And because Kubiak refused to play Foster (He was teaching him some kind of lesson. SMH) until the last 2 games of the season, after they lost control of their destiny. Kubiak's hardheadedness cost the team a chance at its 1st playoff appearance. But I'm sure Foster learned something. LOL

2009 Schaub was good enough to win a SB. IMHO
People b!tch and complain when coaches don't hold people accountable , when they do fans use revisionist history and hold it against them ....

31 Coaches are in a no win situation every year. The other one wins the ultimate prize.

I wonder how long this honeymoon with O'Brien lasts. My bet is on the middle of next season - Unless they all the sudden find a winner at QB , then it'll be a bit longer.
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