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Old 05-20-2014   #21
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Non-starts where a QB is getting thrown in for either cleanup or lost cause duty are pretty meaningless stats to compare.

Schaub's first 8 starts (3-5): 62.7% comp., 7.77 ypa, 255.5 ypg, 85.8 rating.
Keenum's first 8 starts (0-8): 54.2% comp., 7.0 ypa, 220.0 ypg, 78.2 rating.

Which is not to say Keenum has shown us everything he has (which frankly I think is absurd), but I'm not holding my breath over him making it either.
I still have high expectations for Keenum. 4 losses by 3 or less. I think a big plus for him is that he seems to be having fun out there and loves playing. I feel like he will make a huge leap this year.
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Old 05-20-2014   #22
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

http://www.battleredblog.com/2014/5/...hat-flattering

http://www.vavel.com/en-us/nfl/35218...or-texans.html

I think that first video shows what Keenum can do with a competent team around him. It was when the team fell apart in all the areas below that his game didn't look so good.

Improved Coaching = Yes
Improved Oline = Hopefully, Yes
Improved Running Game = Yes
Improved Special Teams = Yes
Improved Defense = Yes
Improved Keenum = Yes
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Old 05-20-2014   #23
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I watched Keenum just like everyone else did last year. He had very little to work with. Every rookie.........yes, I call him a rookie, as this was his first year in real live fire........shows the problems handling the blitz. However, those that are not surrounded by a strong support cast seldom can overcome the deficits they initially bring in. And, on top of that, if the game is not coached to their strengths, it becomes even uglier. Last year, by the time Keenum was given the helm, the Texans were whittled down to only the walking wounded and make shift poor excuses for "survivors." For any other QB, the fetal position and interceptions would have likely been the optional soup d'jour. I trust OB to sort things out one way or another. And it wouldn't surprise me if Keenum still comes out of camp as the best option.
It wouldn't hurt my feelings if Keenum wins the starting job. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if Fitz/Yates/Savage won the starting job, either.

All I expect is honest, open competition and the best man wins. No favoritism.

I think we'll see this scenario at every position. I don't expect to see a lot of loyalty from the coaching staff. They didn't draft the vets on this team. That should improve the overall play of the team. imo.
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Old 05-20-2014   #24
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx View Post
Can Keenum get better like those other two guys got better?

Sure.
No, in my opinion. The problems he has are not the kind you can learn out of. He's still ok as a backup.

Hope he proves me wrong.
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Old 05-20-2014   #25
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Here is my personal take on it; I am not confident in our QB's at all. We all know what Fritz is capable of and quite frankly, it's not pretty. Yates is basically like a poor man's healthy Schaub IMHO, though that could have just been under Kubes.

Keenum to me right now is like a spark that most of us are wondering if after getting terrorized constantly (due to our lack of O-line and running game as well as his own seemingly inability to read blitzes) is not already snuffed out. Kid was a UDFA for a reason. He had flaws that made every team doubt him for 7 rounds. There is a much higher chance he turns out a scrub than like Foster. That said, I would not mind at all if he wins the starting spot during pre-season or season. I just want a starting QB for the Texans that can help us win. I don't care who he is. Hell, he can even be an alien from outer space.

Savage... I'll be honest, I only know as much of him as anyone else who reads scout articles, watch highlights, and listen to interviews. I love his arm though. I love the fact that he has a cannon of an arm. I love the fact that we will have to be more concerned about overthrowing folks for a change. Accuracy is a huge concern, but from what I understand from scouting articles, he got better the more he played (go figure). By all accounts, he is a tough guy. That said, so was Schaub until he completely broke down last season.

At the end of the day, I honestly just want us to win. I don't care if it's with a future Brees, Brady, or whoever. We have too much talent on our team to suck like we did last year. Granted, injuries played a huge part, but sometimes that's the roll of the dice. I am SUPER STOKED though about this season. We buffed the living hell out of our line and for the first time in a LOOONG time, the draft has me psyched out. Who's with me?
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Old 05-20-2014   #26
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
FOR those who don't know me, I was the guy who defended those two during off-seasons, after their "seemingly" disastrous campaigns.

While doing so, I spent a lot of times breaking down several "perceived" terrible plays by the defendants.

Some claimed that I made them pro - bowlers while the usual thinking was that they stink.

That, by itself, is a "small" victory for the defendants, whether in the court of law or common "justice".
Just to make the jury explore the evidences that encompass the whole case rather than just zeroing in one target is always a good step. The final judgment is always in the hand of the jury.

Unfortunately, I don't have much time this year.
The regulars here can tell by my abscence.
They also know that I believe in Football as a team sport; it is won most often with a cohesive unit (Coaching, offense, defense, ST, and fans.)

All that said, I'd like to begin the "investigation" with Tom Brady in his second year with the Patriots.

Study his numbers from every aspect and they are really close to Keenum's

Then you look at each smaller unit.
Offensive weapons.
Running game.
The O-line.

Advantage Brady, by how much? It's hard to quantify; my thinking is the running game helped Brady more.

But when it comes to defense, I hate to say it, there was no contest.
Brady had nearly a ten point advantage.

And then there's ST.

...

I like Keenum a lot because he has it upstairs, but he's always limited in statue.
From day one, I've stressed that he needs to begin by observing Drew Brees.

Right now I think he plays more like a backup .
Whats with all this foolish talk i cant remember a single person debating with you HOW HORRIBLE KJ was. Hmmm you must be imagining things
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Old 05-20-2014   #27
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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...the draft has me psyched out. Who's with me?
OK, I'm in.
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Old 05-20-2014   #28
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Non-starts where a QB is getting thrown in for either cleanup or lost cause duty are pretty meaningless stats to compare.

Schaub's first 8 starts (3-5): 62.7% comp., 7.77 ypa, 255.5 ypg, 85.8 rating.
Keenum's first 8 starts (0-8): 54.2% comp., 7.0 ypa, 220.0 ypg, 78.2 rating.

Which is not to say Keenum has shown us everything he has (which frankly I think is absurd), but I'm not holding my breath over him making it either.
Peyton Manning's first 8 starts (1-7): 55.1% comp, 6.41 ypa, 234 ypg, 64.5 rating.
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Old 05-20-2014   #29
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Keenum seemed to learn from his mistakes each year going back to college. I think Manziel did also for that matter. If OB cannot make him better than so be it but I like the spark I saw in teammates and fans when he was on field. Basically, Case is a soph this year and hopefully will show growth & I hope he will get lots of attention. We all want the best guy starting; if it turns out to be Keenum, as a local guy overcoming odds since high school, he will be a national story.
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Old 05-20-2014   #30
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Whats with all this foolish talk i cant remember a single person debating with you HOW HORRIBLE KJ was. Hmmm you must be imagining things
Wait...what?
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Old 05-20-2014   #31
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Peyton Manning's first 8 starts (1-7): 55.1% comp, 6.41 ypa, 234 ypg, 64.5 rating.
Who's Peyton Manning? When did he play for the Texans?
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Old 05-20-2014   #32
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Wait...what?
You ever heard that song "It wasnt me"

yeah denial is the easiest route in this situation !
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Old 05-20-2014   #33
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

I really want Keenum to get a fair shot at it, but with no bias in his favor either.
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Old 05-20-2014   #34
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

I don't think Keenum really deserves the 0-8 w/l.... Yeah, he's stuck with it but like any stat, it's says things and doesn't say things...

In two of those games, he threw for 3 TD's and no INT's. That sounds like a QB doing his job to me. As mentioned, 4 losses were by 3 pts or less.... Also, relief pitcher Schaub entered a couple or three of those games and couldn't save the day....

Keenum's rating of 78.2 is respectable for a first real action, 1/2 a season QB. What was Andrew Luck's rating in his rookie year for the 11-5 Colts? 76.5. So much for QB stats...

OTOH, Keenum was somewhat painful to watch in some of the later games. I sometimes wonder if Keenum wasn't being given full support by a coaching staff that knew it was probably on the way out.....

At any rate, in 2013, if it wasn't the QB, it was the kicker, the defense or injury biting them in the butt..... that's how you end up 2-14....
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Old 05-20-2014   #35
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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You ever heard that song "It wasnt me"

yeah denial is the easiest route in this situation !
hey brother!!
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Old 05-21-2014   #36
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
FOR those who don't know me, I was the guy who defended those two during off-seasons, after their "seemingly" disastrous campaigns.
You're not the only one here who can spot good play when you see it. I was championing Chris Meyers before you got on board & I was defending the rookie KJ & the rookie Mario from day one.

There are others here who have also been on the right side of those players.

Some of those guys are on the other side of the Keenum debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
All that said, I'd like to begin the "investigation" with Tom Brady in his second year with the Patriots.

Study his numbers from every aspect and they are really close to Keenum's
How many 15+ yard sacks did Tom Brady take? In 2000, Tom Brady took 41 sacks for 216 yards after 14 games. Keenum took 19 sacks for 201 yards in 8 games.

It's been a long time, but I can't ever remember watching Brady, Peyton, Brees, or Rodgers & saying WTF is he going?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
...

I like Keenum a lot because he has it upstairs, but he's always limited in stature.

Right now I think he plays more like a backup .
Then maybe we are on the same side.

I'm not going to say he's never going to be anything. At the same time, I'm not going to say he deserves another shot.

I believe he's going to get another shot & hope he responds better to a different coach.
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Old 05-21-2014   #37
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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I don't think Keenum really deserves the 0-8 w/l.... Yeah, he's stuck with it but like any stat, it's says things and doesn't say things...

In two of those games, he threw for 3 TD's and no INT's. That sounds like a QB doing his job to me. As mentioned, 4 losses were by 3 pts or less.... Also, relief pitcher Schaub entered a couple or three of those games and couldn't save the day....

Keenum's rating of 78.2 is respectable for a first real action, 1/2 a season QB. What was Andrew Luck's rating in his rookie year for the 11-5 Colts? 76.5. So much for QB stats...

OTOH, Keenum was somewhat painful to watch in some of the later games. I sometimes wonder if Keenum wasn't being given full support by a coaching staff that knew it was probably on the way out.....

At any rate, in 2013, if it wasn't the QB, it was the kicker, the defense or injury biting them in the butt..... that's how you end up 2-14....
Good points Arky. I think it was very obvious that the coaching staff wasn't preparing Keenum for the pressure he was facing and wasn't adjusting to what the defenses were doing. Perhaps they were coasting on their way out the door and it manifest in the play of basically a rookie QB.

Of course, Keenum must do a better job himself and I'm sure with competent coaching and an overall improved team he will look much better this year. If you look at his play in his first 3 games, when the team and coaches were still trying, you can see his potential. Does that get him the starting job ... remains to be seen.
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Old 05-21-2014   #38
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Curious what traits you think the second year (first year starter) version of Tom Brady had that Keenum doesn't, and why you think Keenum doesn't have them. Obviously, Brady has become one of the best QBs in NFL history, but because of that, people tend to over-inflate his play in those first couple years.
I'll give you that.

Brady fumbled the ball 12 times as a first year starter, in 14 games.

Keenum fumbled the ball 9 times in 8.

I've got no misconceptions about the guy Tom Brady was. He wasn't a great QB back then, but he was clutch. Always managing to get his team what they needed when they needed it most.

Can't say the same for first year Keenum.

So I understand the guys who are wanting to move on & find our franchise QB, because unless you see Romo as a franchise QB, it's hard to think about Keenum as the face of our franchise.

I think Romo is a franchise QB.

Still, I feel if we don't have a franchise QB, get me another Schaub. A healthy Schaub & I think Keenum can be that.

But don't stop looking for that franchise QB, even though you might hurt Keenum's feelings.
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Old 05-21-2014   #39
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Keenum better hope he can make the team

if bob only wants to carry 2 QBS well then Kennum is in reallly big trouble

I'd take Yates over Case has of right now at least he won a PLayoff game and played decent against Balty
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Old 05-21-2014   #40
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by buddyboy View Post
At least Schaub won a game...
Schaub, in his worst season ever, won two games. He took 21 sacks for 162 yards.

As a first time starter, Schaub only took 16 sacks for 126 yards, finished with an 87.2 passer rating, & he punished teams for blitzing him.
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