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Old 05-30-2014   #321
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Here's a look at the offensive lines pass-pro numbers.
http://mmqb.si.com/2013/12/19/robert...essure-points/

This is up to the last game Keenum played.

Before he started, the Texans were ahead of 11 teams in pass pro.
By the end of the Colts second game, they were ahead of just 5 teams.

Also, note the number of pass plays.
Since the Texans had to rely on the passing game a lot more than the other five teams, the total number of sacks and QB disruptions allowed were the most in the league.
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Old 05-30-2014   #322
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Extended Cut: Case Keenum. Guess they decided to go ahead a cut him after all. Might as well. We saw what he could do last year. No Me Gusta!
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Old 05-30-2014   #323
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
Good post, TC. Thanks!

I don't care who starts the season at QB. I'm pulling for the coaching staff to make the right decision on who starts, rather than pulling for a particular player.
BINGO!

& Ditto...
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Old 05-30-2014   #324
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
if keenum makes the team and becomes starter,

then that would only make Gary Kubiak LOOK EVEN WORSE.

It will make his attachment and love for schaub all the more eerily sad, frightening, and downright creepy.
How's that work? Keenum was Kubiak's hand spotted guy who he was leap frogging over Yates. Keenum starting wouldn't prove Kubiak did anything wrong last year.
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Old 05-30-2014   #325
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
This is what I will say.

It is in the coach's best interest to put the guy on the field who he thinks is best for the team.

If I were guessing right this second, I don't think CK will be the future of this offense because I don't think the pocket nature of the offense and the types of throws demanded is best suited for him, but he is getting a chance to prove himself.
It wouldn't bother me if Case was not the right guy. However, just to get this out there. "We all" expect Romeo Crennel to adjust his defense to take advantage of the talent he has available. We speculated about how he'll have to adjust from his two gap scheme to accomodate Jj Watt. Then we speculated how he'll have to adjust his LB coverage responsibilities to accomodate JaDevean Clowney.

1st round picks & all that, but OB had a hand in the QB situation we are in now. That the four guys we have competing are the four guys we've got competing... he had a lot to do with this situation. If in fact Keenum does win the starting job & this system is not "suited" for his style of play, I'd expect OB to make adjustments to maximize what Keenum does bring to the table.

I don't think Keenum is particularly athletic, the only issue with being a straight pocket passer is that he's a couple inches shorter than ideal. Three to four inches shorter than ideal. To me that just means the tackles are going to have to keep their arcs wider allowing Case to move left to right to find passing lanes. Maybe work in plays where we move the pocket a little more frequently. But not a big deal.
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Old 05-30-2014   #326
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
It wouldn't bother me if Case was not the right guy. However, just to get this out there. "We all" expect Romeo Crennel to adjust his defense to take advantage of the talent he has available. We speculated about how he'll have to adjust from his two gap scheme to accomodate Jj Watt. Then we speculated how he'll have to adjust his LB coverage responsibilities to accomodate JaDevean Clowney.

1st round picks & all that, but OB had a hand in the QB situation we are in now. That the four guys we have competing are the four guys we've got competing... he had a lot to do with this situation. If in fact Keenum does win the starting job & this system is not "suited" for his style of play, I'd expect OB to make adjustments to maximize what Keenum does bring to the table.

I don't think Keenum is particularly athletic, the only issue with being a straight pocket passer is that he's a couple inches shorter than ideal. Three to four inches shorter than ideal. To me that just means the tackles are going to have to keep their arcs wider allowing Case to move left to right to find passing lanes. Maybe work in plays where we move the pocket a little more frequently. But not a big deal.
Matt Mcgloin ran OB's offense in Penn St. Just fine.
He' 3/8 of an inch taller than Keenum.

Wilson ran the Seahawks offense just fine at 5'11.
Plenty from under center.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/9/28/...d-conservative

During his early years in college, Keenum played about 1/3 of his snaps from under center against stout defenses like Alabama and Oregon just fine.
He did very well, in fact, against those superior teams.
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Old 05-30-2014   #327
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Oakland Raiders QB Matt Schaub is excited to have more control of the offense in Oakland. "To come to an offense where the coach is looking to give you more freedom, and looking to give you more control of things," Schaub said. "I had that in some aspects in Houston, but there are things I'm being asked to do here that I didn't have control of in Houston. I would have loved to, but we just weren't in control of it. To now be in that position, and being the quarterback, that's such a great place to be because you can get everyone on the same page."
Knowing this, it makes you wonder how much control Keenum had at the LOS, to change plays in order to pick up blitzes, etc. If I am remembering right, he seemed to do fairly well in hurry-up mode.
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Old 05-30-2014   #328
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

When Keenum came into game the team seemed to pick up his "vibe". I hope to see that again.
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Old 05-30-2014   #329
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Here's a look at the offensive lines pass-pro numbers.
http://mmqb.si.com/2013/12/19/robert...essure-points/

This is up to the last game Keenum played.

Before he started, the Texans were ahead of 11 teams in pass pro.
By the end of the Colts second game, they were ahead of just 5 teams.

Also, note the number of pass plays.
Since the Texans had to rely on the passing game a lot more than the other five teams, the total number of sacks and QB disruptions allowed were the most in the league.

Every QB can make plays at this level. Consistency is the issue. Keenum was fun to watch and did some good things last year. However, his body of work does not earn him this year's job... As Stephanie said, the good news is that he has an open opportunity to impress this staff and earn his spot on the roster and the depth chart. We will see... For me, I am excited that we have 4 guys competing for the job, instead of it being handed to someone. It makes things interesting.
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Old 05-30-2014   #330
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Matt Mcgloin ran OB's offense in Penn St. Just fine.
He' 3/8 of an inch taller than Keenum.
Is this because I said Case is short? Are you short? It's not meant as an insult. It's just an observation. Short QBs have been successful in the NFL. I don't deny that. Noodle armed QBs have been successful in the NFL. Dumb QBs have had success in the NFL.

It's just another thing the QB has to compensate for one way or another. FYI, because a short guy played in a particular offense in college doesn't mean a short guy can be successful in the pros. For all I know (& I'm sure you'll prove me wrong with the stats) the Nittany Lions OL is shorter than the Texans line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Wilson ran the Seahawks offense just fine at 5'11.
Plenty from under center.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/9/28/...d-conservative

During his early years in college, Keenum played about 1/3 of his snaps from under center against stout defenses like Alabama and Oregon just fine.
He did very well, in fact, against those superior teams.
Doesn't matter. Not one bit. I saw Case play from under center last season. Lateral movement was necessary for him to find passing lanes.

Again, It's no insult to say a dead man is dead.
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Old 05-30-2014   #331
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Is this because I said Case is short? Are you short? It's not meant as an insult. It's just an observation. Short QBs have been successful in the NFL. I don't deny that. Noodle armed QBs have been successful in the NFL. Dumb QBs have had success in the NFL.

It's just another thing the QB has to compensate for one way or another. FYI, because a short guy played in a particular offense in college doesn't mean a short guy can be successful in the pros. For all I know (& I'm sure you'll prove me wrong with the stats) the Nittany Lions OL is shorter than the Texans line.



Doesn't matter. Not one bit. I saw Case play from under center last season. Lateral movement was necessary for him to find passing lanes.

Again, It's no insult to say a dead man is dead.
Still could prove embarassing.. signed Lazarus
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Old 05-30-2014   #332
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by Vance87 View Post
Knowing this, it makes you wonder how much control Keenum had at the LOS, to change plays in order to pick up blitzes, etc. If I am remembering right, he seemed to do fairly well in hurry-up mode.
As far as I can tell, Schaub is talking about setting protections. That's pretty much the only "control" he didn't have that meant anything. Remember, it was just the year before last that we had a top ten offense in rushing, passing, & scoring.
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Old 05-31-2014   #333
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
As far as I can tell, Schaub is talking about setting protections. That's pretty much the only "control" he didn't have that meant anything. Remember, it was just the year before last that we had a top ten offense in rushing, passing, & scoring.
Setting protections for a blitz...one of the things I was referring to
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Old 05-31-2014   #334
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Here's a look at the offensive lines pass-pro numbers.
http://mmqb.si.com/2013/12/19/robert...essure-points/

This is up to the last game Keenum played.

Before he started, the Texans were ahead of 11 teams in pass pro.
By the end of the Colts second game, they were ahead of just 5 teams.

Also, note the number of pass plays.
Since the Texans had to rely on the passing game a lot more than the other five teams, the total number of sacks and QB disruptions allowed were the most in the league.

The problem with your assumption is the pass pro was bad,but it wasn't the decision maker. Pryor was sacked at david carr esque levels,but mcgloin was sacked at manning-esqu level. Does that mean the raiders blocked better for mcgloin than pryor? Nope. It means the guy tking the snaps makes the better,quicker decisions. Once teams had the game tape on keenum and figured his pressure points,they knew what they could do to him. CK couldn't adjust,ran backwards,got sacked for huge losses and didn't win a game.Could he do better? Hopefully,but to say its the line when we've seen guys play well with great or even good line play.
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Old 05-31-2014   #335
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
The problem with your assumption is the pass pro was bad,but it wasn't the decision maker. Pryor was sacked at david carr esque levels,but mcgloin was sacked at manning-esqu level. Does that mean the raiders blocked better for mcgloin than pryor? Nope. It means the guy tking the snaps makes the better,quicker decisions. Once teams had the game tape on keenum and figured his pressure points,they knew what they could do to him. CK couldn't adjust,ran backwards,got sacked for huge losses and didn't win a game.Could he do better? Hopefully,but to say its the line when we've seen guys play well with great or even good line play.
You could definitely make the same case for teams having game tape on the rest of the team and figuring out how to attack their myriad of progressive deterioration.............a Wade Smith who had to be baby sat by Brown, a cripple at RT, a newbie at RG, a decimation of the the RB and TE corp, a #2 receiver that made enough rookie mistakes of his own and played injured most of the last couple of months of the season, a game plan on both sides of the ball that remained stale and predictable, and showed no significant attempts for adjustment to problems opposing teams presented, a punter that even I had to turn away from anytime he attempted a FG (no matter how short), and lastly a D that more resembled a cast from The Walking Dead. But besides that, there is no doubt in my mind it was on Case.
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Old 05-31-2014   #336
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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You could definitely make the same case for teams having game tape on the rest of the team and figuring out how to attack their myriad of progressive deterioration.............
Except when Schaub & Tj was in the game, they were able to move that same team up & down the field between the 20s like it was nobodies business. Case couldn't even get into striking range in the 2nd half.

Schaub even came in the same game & moved the ball down field, with ease.

I thought we should give the ball to Schaub/Yates between the 20s, but put Case in the game in the red zone. or at least when we crossed the 30.
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Old 05-31-2014   #337
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Except when Schaub & Tj was in the game, they were able to move that same team up & down the field between the 20s like it was nobodies business. Case couldn't even get into striking range in the 2nd half.

Schaub even came in the same game & moved the ball down field, with ease.

I thought we should give the ball to Schaub/Yates between the 20s, but put Case in the game in the red zone. or at least when we crossed the 30.
The way I saw it was that TJ came in for week 5 and 6 when the O was pretty much intact ( and he still managed to throw 2 INTs with O TDs and went nowhere). And when Schaub came in for Keenum, the play-calling seemed to take a dramatic change..and still he managed 5 INTs, several sacks and a pathetic QB rating in those last 3 games.
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Old 05-31-2014   #338
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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The way I saw it was that TJ came in for week 5 and 6 when the O was pretty much intact ( and he still managed to throw 2 INTs with O TDs and went nowhere). And when Schaub came in for Keenum, the play-calling seemed to take a dramatic change..and still he managed 5 INTs, several sacks and a pathetic QB rating in those last 3 games.
I agree with this, the play calling was not at all equal between the 3. So hard to compare really. When Schaub was in Gary opened the whole play book, when TJ and Case were in he had about 5 plays he would call it seemed.
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Old 05-31-2014   #339
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
You could definitely make the same case for teams having game tape on the rest of the team and figuring out how to attack their myriad of progressive deterioration.............a Wade Smith who had to be baby sat by Brown, a cripple at RT, a newbie at RG, a decimation of the the RB and TE corp, a #2 receiver that made enough rookie mistakes of his own and played injured most of the last couple of months of the season, a game plan on both sides of the ball that remained stale and predictable, and showed no significant attempts for adjustment to problems opposing teams presented, a punter that even I had to turn away from anytime he attempted a FG (no matter how short), and lastly a D that more resembled a cast from The Walking Dead. But besides that, there is no doubt in my mind it was on Case.
and spot on Doc. I can get on board with everything you said here except the "punter that even I had to turn away from anytime he attempted a FG" part. I actually think Lechler could have done just as well or better.

Joking aside, this is what I'd like to respond to :"a Wade Smith who had to be baby sat by Brown, a cripple at RT, a newbie at RG"

Especially the bolded. It was discussed time and again that Brown's play was compromised by his toe injury and I'm very sure that played a large part in his play declining last year but many times you could actually see him leaving his man early to pick up a rusher freed up by a whiff on Wade Smith's part. Smith was absolutely terrible last season. As to the bolded. Newton played hurt all season and never really got into 'game shape' I don't believe. What little has been said about him this season has ALL been POSITIVE as far as what I've read and heard from the coaching staff. He's healthy for the first time in a long time, he came into camp in great shape, lost fat and added muscle and is moving much better.

I'm more than likely all alone in this but I hope Newton can get his playbook down and show us what the last staff thought they saw in him. I know Q is right there waiting in the wings so the best man will get the job and it's exciting knowing it won't be just handed to Newt because his name is first on the depth chart.

I'm excited to see how everything works out.
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Old 05-31-2014   #340
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drs23 View Post
and spot on Doc. I can get on board with everything you said here except the "punter that even I had to turn away from anytime he attempted a FG" part. I actually think Lechler could have done just as well or better.

Joking aside, this is what I'd like to respond to :"a Wade Smith who had to be baby sat by Brown, a cripple at RT, a newbie at RG"

Especially the bolded. It was discussed time and again that Brown's play was compromised by his toe injury and I'm very sure that played a large part in his play declining last year but many times you could actually see him leaving his man early to pick up a rusher freed up by a whiff on Wade Smith's part. Smith was absolutely terrible last season. As to the bolded. Newton played hurt all season and never really got into 'game shape' I don't believe. What little has been said about him this season has ALL been POSITIVE as far as what I've read and heard from the coaching staff. He's healthy for the first time in a long time, he came into camp in great shape, lost fat and added muscle and is moving much better.

I'm more than likely all alone in this but I hope Newton can get his playbook down and show us what the last staff thought they saw in him. I know Q is right there waiting in the wings so the best man will get the job and it's exciting knowing it won't be just handed to Newt because his name is first on the depth chart.

I'm excited to see how everything works out.
Great Post.

I haven't given up on Newton either. Much like the QB position I hope the RT position is an open competition and may the best man win.
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