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View Poll Results: Thumbs up or down on Tom Savage at 4.135
Up 112 83.58%
Down 22 16.42%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-03-2014   #441
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Pretty much. The back up imo should be learning the game plan & be prepared to come into the game & pick up the offense.

If I were OB & my plan was for Savage to be starting 2015, then I don't want him running the scout team.

Then again, from what I understand, the Cowboys felt really good about Romo his second season, but he was still third on their depth chart, the year they thought he might be ready, the promoted him to back up...

so I may have to rethink that.
Quite a few teams only carry 2 QBs.
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Old 06-03-2014   #442
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Quite a few teams only carry 2 QBs.
But some of the time in those cases, a QB on the practice squad runs the scout team.
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Old 06-03-2014   #443
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
But some of the time in those cases, a QB on the practice squad runs the scout team.
All I am saying is there is no hard and fast rule.

But since we're on the topic I think it would be more useful for a QBs development to get a whole bunch of reps running the scout team (under whatever name on the roster/depth chart) rather than a handful running our O as a backup.
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Old 06-03-2014   #444
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
All I am saying is there is no hard and fast rule.

But since we're on the topic I think it would be more useful for a QBs development to get a whole bunch of reps running the scout team (under whatever name on the roster/depth chart) rather than a handful running our O as a backup.
I agree, especially for a QB who has played so little football in the last 4 years.

I don't think O'Brien has any set in stone timeline on if or when Savage starts. He is going to try and develop him and see what he has.
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Old 06-03-2014   #445
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Originally Posted by GoCoogs View Post
I agree, especially for a QB who has played so little football in the last 4 years.

Sounds plausible... but how much coaching goes into identifying mistakes & correcting them on the scout team? I wouldn't think very much. Practice doesn't make perfect... perfect practice, know what I mean?
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Old 06-03-2014   #446
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Sounds plausible... but how much coaching goes into identifying mistakes & correcting them on the scout team? I wouldn't think very much. Practice doesn't make perfect... perfect practice, know what I mean?
Again with a generalization. If someone they are trying to develop is running the scout team they are free to put as much coaching into them as they want. They are coaching the player as a member and investment of the Texans, not the scout team and some separate disposable unrelated entity.
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Old 06-03-2014   #447
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Again with a generalization.
Try to read it again... this time, act as if the person posting isn't me & it's just someone asking a question, not making a generalization.
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Old 06-03-2014   #448
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Try to read it again... this time, act as if the person posting isn't me & it's just someone asking a question, not making a generalization.
It's nothing personal. I just think you are operating off assumed rules which do not exist. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, my bet is coaches player development decisions are as varied as opinions around here on how it should be done.
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Old 06-03-2014   #449
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Sounds plausible... but how much coaching goes into identifying mistakes & correcting them on the scout team?
Well...There's different kinds of coaching...Technique work...Throwing form...Foot placement...Play fakes....

And then there is the coaching a guy up for a specific system...reads, calls and things like that....

I'd imagine that Savage isn't going to be getting as much work as the 1st and second string QB are.

When they have the early portions of practice they all will do technique stuff...get coaching...

When they split and go do scout team stuff, Savage will have to carry that coaching over.

Now, since OB is the type of coach that seems to want his hands on everything I'd imagine he'd make his way over to where Savage is and check him out. If he sees a coaching opportunity..Hey, Tom..."yada, yada, yada"...And then work his way back to the offensive field...

Also, when the coaches watch film, if OB sees Savage dropping his elbow...or taking a bad step...or whatever....He'll see it and mention it to him.

So basically....From my experiences and IMO...Savage will most likely be working on his technique this coming season if he's on scout team...He'll be studying our offense, but he won't get as much first hand work in it making live reads..calling the offense...all the nuances of what we run.

But he will have a playbook...He will watch film. If there is an injury he'll get some reps in practice running our offense...

But...You can and should get better as a player on Scout team. It's going to require a little more self discipline on his part because he's not going to have an offensive coach watching him every second of practice like the other QB's will...IF he is third string/scout team designated QB. So he will have to take some coaching and carry it over when they go 'live' for scout team.

Again...This is just my opinion based on how I've seen it done and from what I know.
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Old 06-03-2014   #450
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

I also want to point out, that it is very hard to master an offense. A lot of time it takes a few years of work within a system to really 'master' it.

When a guy first gets put onto the field in live action it seems like fans expect a guy to know the offense and all the nuances...well because they're out there, so the coach must think that guy knows exactly what he's doing...

You're not only having to learn what your system requires, but you also have to learn what the opponents are doing.

Ok, the opponent is giving you a look...How does that affect what you guys want to do now?

So even if Savage started as a rookie right away, he still might not look like a savy vet in year two...

Really...there's no hard and fast rules on this stuff...Players are different...coaches are different...

Trying to pin down a result is extremely hard because there's so many variables.

I wouldn't write his future in stone based on what happens this year...whatever happens...
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Old 06-03-2014   #451
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
All I am saying is there is no hard and fast rule.

But since we're on the topic I think it would be more useful for a QBs development to get a whole bunch of reps running the scout team (under whatever name on the roster/depth chart) rather than a handful running our O as a backup.
Isn't that what Tom Brady was doing his rookie year... running the scout team?
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Old 06-03-2014   #452
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Isn't that what Tom Brady was doing his rookie year... running the scout team?
Pretty sure, yes.
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Old 06-03-2014   #453
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Isn't that what Tom Brady was doing his rookie year... running the scout team?
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Pretty sure, yes.
Brady was 1/3 passing for 6 yards in 2000.

In 2001, Brady replaced an injured Drew Bledsoe in 4th quarter of 2nd game and started their 3rd game.
Quote:
Brady would throw for just 168 yards, while Manning threw three interceptions, two for pick-six touchdowns. But those Patriots began to rally that day around Brady, who would lead them five months later to a stunning Super Bowl XXXVI upset of the heavily favored St. Louis Rams.

Former New England linebacker Willie McGinest remembered thinking that an 0-2 team built on its defense had to help take some pressure off the kid, who had been drafted in the sixth round the previous April out of Michigan.

Our job was to make sure that we had a chance to win that game on defense and that it didn't get out of control, because Tom wasn't playing against Peyton, we were," the NFL Network analyst told USA TODAY Sports. "Peyton is always a tough challenge for a defense."

Yet McGinest and his teammates entered that game with an inexplicable confidence in Brady, who nearly led them back to victory the previous week when he replaced Bledsoe in the fourth quarter.

"We felt then, 'We'll be all right with this kid,' when he first got in there against the Jets, just by the way he came in and finished that game strong," McGinest said.

"I mean, the Patriots made the right decision with Tom, right?" McGinest laughs heartily.
...
"You looked at Tom and it's not like anything just stood out with him," said Rypien, who, like Brady was also a sixth-round pick. "There are kids you see in warm-ups and you go, 'Wow!' Nothing Tom ever did was just an awe factor. He was just so good at everything. ...

"The one thing I've always been impressed with about Tom is his ability to move in the pocket, and how he has that clock ticking in his head. He's always had that sense of feeling pressure, just moving two or three steps sideways or stepping up in the pocket."

McGinest cited other intangibles about Brady that impressed his veteran teammates.

"From early on ... it's about team, it's about competing, it's about wanting to be the best and being a student of the game and doing everything he can to give our team the best chance to win," McGinest said.

"Tom bought into Bill Belichick and our system, Day 1. It was never about him, which is one of the most important things people leave out about Tom. ... It takes a special guy to be that way."

Last edited by Playoffs; 06-03-2014 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 06-03-2014   #454
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

practice squad players can be poached from any team at any time. For this reason alone i don't think bOb will put Savage on the PS. He's either got to carry him on the roster or place him on injured reserve with a fake injury to ensure that he'll be able to keep him going into next year.
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Old 06-03-2014   #455
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Brady was 1/3 passing for 6 yards in 2000.

In 2001, Brady replaced an injured Drew Bledsoe in 4th quarter of 2nd game and started their 3rd game.
The situation of Brady was quite unique; it seems like the perfect storm.
Sometimes the heroe creates his own chances; sometimes circumstances bring about a hero; sometimes it's a bit of both.

I had tried to look at the situation before, which can be summarized from piecing together various articles mentioned in Wikipedia.

First off, the Patriots had drafted a QB named Scott Zoliak in the 4th round of the 1991 draft.
In 1992 Zoliak was one of the four QBs who started games for them.
The number one guy, Millen, starter 7.
Zoliak started 4; Hodson 3; and Carlson 2.
Hodson was drafted in the 3rd round, 1990, a year earlier than Zoliak.
Carlson was drafted in the fourth round in 1989 by the Rams but was traded to the Pats in 1992.
By next year, the Pats had let go the later two and kept Zoliak as number two.

That was when they drafted Bledsoe in the first round and handed him the starting gig.
Zoliak remained the backup, even with the coaching change from Parcells to Pete Carroll.

In 1998, Carroll ' s team finished 9-7.
In 1999, he brought in a journeyman veteran in John Friesz, a former 6th rounder, and drafted a dual threat QB named Michael Bishop in the 7th round.
Zoliak was not resigned; he was replaced by Friesz.

That season, Bledsoe started out strong, leading the Pats to a 6-2 mark with 13 TDs and 4 INTs.
The second half of the season was a complete reversal; however.
The Pats went 2-6; Bledsoe threw just 6 TDs as opposed to 17 INTs.

Exit Carroll; enter Belichik in 2000.
He drafted Brady in the 6th round, and kept 4 QBs, with Brady at the bottom.

The Pats went 5-1; Bledsoe threw for 17 TDs and 13 INTs.
Friesz was 11 of 21 for 66 yards and an INT.
Bishop went 3 of 9 for 80, 1 TD and 1 INT.
Brady was 1 of 3 for 6 yards in a 9-34 loss.

In March of 2001, the Pats resigned Bledsoe to a then record ten year contract for gazillions of dollar.

The let go of Friesz and brought in Damon Huard, a former UDFA who had shown a few flashes for the Dolphins.

The Pats were happy to have Bledsoe and 3 youngsters duking it out in TC.

The rest is history.
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Old 06-03-2014   #456
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
practice squad players can be poached from any team at any time. For this reason alone i don't think bOb will put Savage on the PS. He's either got to carry him on the roster or place him on injured reserve with a fake injury to ensure that he'll be able to keep him going into next year.
Placing him on IR would be counter productive to his growth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injured_reserve_list

Quote:
team may place a player on injured reserve (reserve/injured list) who is "not immediately available for participation with a club". Generally, these players may not practice or return to the Active List for the rest of the season (including postseason games or the Pro Bowl) that they are placed on injured reserve, but are allowed to be with the team
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Old 06-03-2014   #457
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Placing him on IR would be counter productive to his growth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injured_reserve_list
I think he meant IR w the return designation.

I thought PUP would have been a viable option but they too are not allowed to practice.

Quote:
PUP players may participate in team meetings, and take advantage of the training and medical facilities, but cannot practice with the team.
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Old 06-03-2014   #458
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

We could go with 3 and the fourth go to IR.
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Old 06-03-2014   #459
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Placing him on IR would be counter productive to his growth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injured_reserve_list
I agree and if he is designated to the PS or Injured reserve this year that should tell everyone all they need to know about what bOb thinks of Savage and his viability as the future of this franchise.
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Old 06-03-2014   #460
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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I agree and if he is designated to the PS or Injured reserve this year that should tell everyone all they need to know about what bOb thinks of Savage and his viability as the future of this franchise.
I think Savage is a 100% lock to make the opening day roster. I also think there will be three QBs on that roster.
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