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View Poll Results: Thumbs up or down on Tom Savage at 4.135
Up 112 83.58%
Down 22 16.42%
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Old 05-27-2014   #341
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
It can be argued that because the Texans spent a number on Carr, they lacked the resources to find protection for him, up to a certain point.
No it cannot given the resources they expended to give him protection. It just didn't work out.
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Old 05-27-2014   #342
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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No it cannot given the resources they expended to give him protection. It just didn't work out.
You probably know I never meant to argue that point; merely putting it out there.
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Old 05-27-2014   #343
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Aikman should have been cut after 8 games.
He was shut out in 3 games; reaching 50% completion in just one of those games, with 6 INTs.
He was 6-21 for 83 yards with 2 INTS in a 7-30 loss and 1-6 for 11 yards in a 13-20 loss.
No TD either.

In the 11th loss, he threw no TD and 4 INTs.

Talk about the opponents having game tape on him.
The guy regressed big time, LOL.
That guy can never be an NFL QB.

At least the Cowgirls won a game with Steve Waslh.
In those 11 games (or whatever it was way back then) Aikman was sacked 19 times (like Keenum) but only gave up 155 sack yards. He wasn't running the wrong way like Keenum. (201 sack yards on 19 sacks).

Some guys have the gnads to play QB in the NFL. Some people should stay home & take care of their cats.
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Old 05-27-2014   #344
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Originally Posted by PHILLYTEXANFAN View Post
Which WR do you guys think Savage will "gel" with first?
How often do you see more than one UDFA become stars on the same NFL team?

Remember Tony Romo? He came to the league as an UDFA. The Cowboys "knew" they had a star in the making. They groomed him for three years (similar to Case) then when he finally got his chance to play, he showed the league that he belonged.

He had made an instant connection with Jason Witten... but who wouldn't? Jason Witten can make almost any QB look competent by providing a big body, strong hands, & the ability to get up field quick, of course he is going to be a young QB's best friend.

Then Miles Austin blew up.

If I were Tom Savage & they've got me running with the second/third team, I'm going to find the "best" second/third team WRs & work, work, work. The goal is that we're going to blow the top off the league together.
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Old 05-27-2014   #345
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
In those 11 games (or whatever it was way back then) Aikman was sacked 19 times (like Keenum) but only gave up 155 sack yards. He wasn't running the wrong way like Keenum. (201 sack yards on 19 sacks).

Some guys have the gnads to play QB in the NFL. Some people should stay home & take care of their cats.
I don't have a knack with cats.
With a different kind of cats, maybe.
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Old 05-27-2014   #346
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Except heart and brains.
Two very important requirements for that position.
& if the Texans picked up Keenum & found out he has the heart & the brains to be a champion, then his lack of size would mean even less. They would invest what they need to develop him.

So we'll see. I still think Fitz was brought in for Keenum to beat.
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Old 05-27-2014   #347
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Except heart and brains.
Two very important requirements for that position.
He had plenty of heart in his 1st 2 years. The Texans should've given him a solid vet to learn the ropes from, a HC/OC/GM to impress upon him the importance of being a football junkie and putting the time in, etc. Carr should've taken a lot of that on himself, but the FO coddled him.

Carr might've still been crap, but at least he would've had a fighting chance. The way it ended up playing out, he never did.
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Old 05-27-2014   #348
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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He had plenty of heart in his 1st 2 years. The Texans should've given him a solid vet to learn the ropes from...
Like Ryan Fitzpatrick right?
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Old 05-27-2014   #349
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
He had plenty of heart in his 1st 2 years. The Texans should've given him a solid vet to learn the ropes from, a HC/OC/GM to impress upon him the importance of being a football junkie and putting the time in, etc. Carr should've taken a lot of that on himself, but the FO coddled him.
Do you know this for sure?

I would think Dom Capers, Chris Palmer, and Charley Casserly would have rubbed off on him by osmosis if nothing else. Say what you will about that brain trust but they all have Super Bowls in their resume and each of them knows and knew the kind of work it takes to achieve in the NFL.

My guess was always that Carr just didn't have a Hall-of-Fame career on his list of priorities. He was more interested in spending time with his family than in putting in the kind of hours necessary for Peyton Manning's kind of career.

But I could be wrong.
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Old 05-27-2014   #350
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Do you know this for sure?

I would think Dom Capers, Chris Palmer, and Charley Casserly would have rubbed off on him by osmosis if nothing else. Say what you will about that brain trust but they all have Super Bowls in their resume and each of them knows and knew the kind of work it takes to achieve in the NFL.

My guess was always that Carr just didn't have a Hall-of-Fame career on his list of priorities. He was more interested in spending time with his family than in putting in the kind of hours necessary for Peyton Manning's kind of career.

But I could be wrong.
Carr has publicly stated that he had no idea how much time and effort was involved with being an NFL QB. He wished he'd had a vet QB to show him the ropes. blah, blah blah. The results speak for themselves.
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Old 05-27-2014   #351
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Carr has publicly stated that he had no idea how much time and effort was involved with being an NFL QB. He wished he'd had a vet QB to show him the ropes. blah, blah blah. The results speak for themselves.
He had Tony Banks. Not the same as Drew Bledsoe, but guys like him were hard to come by in 2002.

The Texans failed Carr, but it wasn't because they didn't bring in a veteran QB. They let Carr play when it was clear that he did not know how to protect himself & they never got around to teaching him how to do that.

Kubiak worked wonders with him (imo) but it was too late & our gunslinger was gunshy by then. If McNair had hired Kubiak the first time, I think we'd all be happier Texans fans.
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Old 05-27-2014   #352
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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Carr has publicly stated that he had no idea how much time and effort was involved with being an NFL QB. He wished he'd had a vet QB to show him the ropes. blah, blah blah. The results speak for themselves.
I don't dislike David Carr, but I don't respect him either.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that your success is commensurate to the work you put in.

A twelve year old kid with his first job at the ice cream parlor could tell you that.

I recall John McClain stating quite plainly in a radio interview early in Carr's career that Carr was not the textbook leader who is the first to show up in the morning and the last to leave at night.

That's when it was first clear to me that our golden boy wasn't earning his millions.

Even a 23 year old kid knows that being handed $50 million comes with some expectations.

To me it's almost like Carr stole that money by not putting in the hours and it should have been obvious to him that that's what was expected of him.

But, alas, this has been discussed ad nauseum and I'll hang up and listen...
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Old 05-28-2014   #353
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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In those 11 games (or whatever it was way back then) Aikman was sacked 19 times (like Keenum) but only gave up 155 sack yards. He wasn't running the wrong way like Keenum. (201 sack yards on 19 sacks).

Some guys have the gnads to play QB in the NFL. Some people should stay home & take care of their cats.
I would say that is because Keenum was still trying to make things happen. Schaub could get sacked 10 times for 10 total yards due to the fetal position and that means squat.
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Old 05-28-2014   #354
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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I would say that is because Keenum was still trying to make things happen. Schaub could get sacked 10 times for 10 total yards due to the fetal position and that means squat.
21 sacks for 162 yards & he won 2 games. & he made sht happen in that San Diego game.

& I'm not trying to pick on Keenum, just stating the facts. I've looked at several first time starting QBs trying to find one with similar sackyards as Keenum. FYI, it's not a list you want to see your favorite QB on.

I'm rooting for the kid, but I don't have my head in the sand. I'd rather see him start than Fitz. I like the connection he has with Andre. But c'mon...
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Old 05-28-2014   #355
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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21 sacks for 162 yards & he won 2 games. & he made sht happen in that San Diego game.

& I'm not trying to pick on Keenum, just stating the facts. I've looked at several first time starting QBs trying to find one with similar sackyards as Keenum. FYI, it's not a list you want to see your favorite QB on.
Not saying he didn't make **** happen in that game cause he did. My point is Keenum never gave up on a play, call it good or bad but that is why he took so many sacks for such big losses. Not because he was scared to get hit. That was my whole point.

And i like Keenum but i think it will be Savage who gets the nod IMO
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Old 05-28-2014   #356
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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My point is Keenum never gave up on a play, call it good or bad but that is why he took so many sacks for such big losses. Not because he was scared to get hit. That was my whole point.
If I'm a new head coach & that's what I see... not giving up on a play... I'm not very impressed with Case Keenum & I'm not expecting a whole lot from him. Can't keep doing the same thing expecting different results.
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Old 05-28-2014   #357
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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If I'm a new head coach & that's what I see... not giving up on a play... I'm not very impressed with Case Keenum & I'm not expecting a whole lot from him. Can't keep doing the same thing expecting different results.
That poor decision making gets mistaken for "heart" and "passion" for "trying to make something happen". Favre may be an HoFer, but he threw a ton of stupid INT's throughout his entire career because he was trying to force the action, extend plays, and hit the home run ball with every throw. A smart QB learns when it is the best decision to throw it away and not try to extend every play. It's not sexy. It's not glamorous. But it's smart football.
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Old 05-28-2014   #358
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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That poor decision making gets mistaken for "heart" and "passion" for "trying to make something happen". Favre may be an HoFer, but he threw a ton of stupid INT's throughout his entire career because he was trying to force the action, extend plays, and hit the home run ball with every throw. A smart QB learns when it is the best decision to throw it away and not try to extend every play. It's not sexy. It's not glamorous. But it's smart football.
And as part of the same discussion, being smart and going down when you know the play is over gets mistaken for being unwilling to take a hit. It's silly. Manning and Brady both drop to the ground like a sack of potatoes if they deem the play not viable. When they think they can still make the play they'll take the shot (as did Schaub).
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Old 05-28-2014   #359
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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And as part of the same discussion, being smart and going down when you know the play is over gets mistaken for being unwilling to take a hit. It's silly. Manning and Brady both drop to the ground like a sack of potatoes if they deem the play not viable. When they think they can still make the play they'll take the shot (as did Schaub).
Excellent observation of both the game and the critics reaction to it.
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Old 05-28-2014   #360
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Default Re: Selection 4.135: Tom Savage QB

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And as part of the same discussion, being smart and going down when you know the play is over gets mistaken for being unwilling to take a hit. It's silly. Manning and Brady both drop to the ground like a sack of potatoes if they deem the play not viable. When they think they can still make the play they'll take the shot (as did Schaub).
I think it's a smart move by the QB when, seeing nothing good is going to happen and having a defensive player lining you up for a big hit, to get to the ground and avoid the contact. Why take the hit to just take the hit? And yeah, I think of that Denver game where Schaub loses part of his ear standing in to deliver the throw. His "going fetal" occurred a heck of a lot less than his taking shots to deliver a throw. That being said, there are times when Manning looks like he goes down a little too early. It's always awkward looking with him though so it's tough to say. Any time he does anything than stand straight up and step into a throw, it looks odd. He epitomizes the word "stiff".

Of course, Carr took that standing in the pocket thing to the stupid level and took hit after unnecessary hit. Tough, but stupid.
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