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Old 05-03-2014   #101
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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I answered the question completely and sincerely in post #94. I even gave you a rep for illustrating so well the Texans dysfunctional cap management so much better than I have been able to. As to Thunderkyss response, that was just a little kool aid reflux and regurgitation that happens and often results in the babble of homina homina homina
Post #94 is about this offseason & we haven't seen the results of that yet. For all we know it could blow back in their face the way it did for the Eagles' Dream team.

I asked about the money they didn't spend after 2011. That team they put together through the draft because they were broke & had no money to spend on free agents, still they managed to win 11 games in 2012. Screwing up their cap did not stop them from fielding a competitive team.

I asked about the money they didn't spend after 2012. Again, no flashy free agent signings, not very active in FA at all. Still, they turned in another 11 win season. That pretty much cancels your theory that you have to sign free agents to replace the talent you lost.

Mathis stepped his game up, they didn't sign anyone for the 2012/2013 season to replace Freeney or anyone else.

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TK can do his own homework, I'm not his secretary. In regards to Richardson, no disagreement from me. I agree completely it was definitely a WTH is going on decision, head scratcher.
So the Texans aren't the only ones screwing up.... that was my point.
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Old 05-03-2014   #102
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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Post #94 is about this offseason & we haven't seen the results of that yet. For all we know it could blow back in their face the way it did for the Eagles' Dream team.

I asked about the money they didn't spend after 2011. That team they put together through the draft because they were broke & had no money to spend on free agents, still they managed to win 11 games in 2012. Screwing up their cap did not stop them from fielding a competitive team.

I asked about the money they didn't spend after 2012. Again, no flashy free agent signings, not very active in FA at all. Still, they turned in another 11 win season. That pretty much cancels your theory that you have to sign free agents to replace the talent you lost.

Mathis stepped his game up, they didn't sign anyone for the 2012/2013 season to replace Freeney or anyone else.



So the Texans aren't the only ones screwing up.... that was my point.
Actually in 2011 the Colts were not far removed from the SB and did not need a lot of parts. Then Peyton went down. In 2012 the Colts went all in on rebuilding mode, cut some BIG contracts and did add quite a few FA, traded draft picks for players and claimed several players off waivers in final cut downs. Plus they drafted well. After getting relief from Manning and Freeney's salary the Colts were able to sign quite a few expensive FAs. The bottom line is the Colts were able to afford something more than VET Minimums and when they couldn't they traded for players and worked the waiver wire.

The Colts actually got to spend Manning's and Freeney's salary when their salary came off the Colts books, unlike the Texans who got an $18 million in salary relief from Mario leaving, yet started the following year after Mario's departure only $3 million under the cap.

Everybody makes mistakes some teams just make more than others.
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Old 05-03-2014   #103
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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Everybody makes mistakes some teams just make more than others.
& everything goes in cycles. They're spending money now, because they can. 2010, & 2011, not so much. We're pretty much (now) where they were in 2011. Our time will come.

We manage the cap the same way they do. The same way 30 other teams do. They got more out of their all in move than we did. That's the only difference. Our coaches only got two play off wins & two division titles going all in. They were able to turn in 10 years of success including two Super Bowls & one Lombardi.

They reset the clock two years ago. We're resetting now. Let's see who crosses the finish line first.


Yeah, that's the Koolaid talking.
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Old 05-03-2014   #104
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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Ok, you have a point (as it stands right now). But there is still the draft and the option of reworking contracts if OB doesn't think that Graham and Griffin can do what he wants done AND/OR he can't utilize what they can do.

It's too early for me to look on the negative side the roster until I see how they fill that roster and plan to utilize it.

Just because they haven't done things in a manner that you approve of doesn't make it a bad decision
Same BS you've been spouting for yrs.

You want a team built in a certain model. (That model has been proven to be a faulty one, But it has made the McNair's a lot of $$$$.)

Time to change the model, But It looks like it wont happen.

I can tell you I think Manziel will be a Texan because it will keep the fanbase that McNair wants happy. It may not be at 1-1 but after all this is a business and business always comes 1st when it comes to the McNair's family business.
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Old 05-03-2014   #105
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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I said at the beginning it was early, no argument there. Also OB is a rookie HC in the NFL. I expect OB to make some rookie HC mistakes. I was just pointing out that the initial transactions made from OB is something I wouldn't have necessarily done. I am on record and have been saying for years that there is HC think and there is GM think. The Daniels, Manning decisions fall under HC think and NOT GM think IMHO.
Plus the problem he will have with the McNair/Smith combo not being able to manage the cap properly. (See Schaub /Foster exentions) Still will have BOB's hands tied and it appears that the draft will be nily willy (Going for the guy who will make the franchise the most $$$$ will carry the day)

Might as well make Derek Carr 1-1 and complete the circle.
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Old 05-03-2014   #106
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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I don't have a problem with your expectations. My issue is that it's like you expect McNair to change the past. He can't.

The first 4 years were a flop. He realized that. The only thing he can do from that point is to scrap it all & start over, which he did.

He doesn't deserve any more criticism for what happened the first four years. He saw it, he did what we had to do & we moved forward.

Over the next 4 year period, we only had one losing season & finally had a winning season. I'll put it another way. He took a failed expansion team from losers to winners in 4 years.

Some people expected play offs in that time. I admit, it would have been nice. It didn't happen. Could any other coach/GM combination come in & rebuild a failed expansion team & win a Super Bowl in 4 seasons? Could another coach/GM combination come in & take that failed team to a play off game?

I doubt it. Why? Because we haven't seen it anywhere else. Haven't seen it with the Browns. The Browns have fired coaches & GMs & changed owners like "everyone" wants here & they are not the better for it.

After the initial success of the Panthers & the Jags... they haven't done much since. The Panthers got to the Super Bowl, with a team not very different from what we started with last season. So maybe that's saying something, but overall those teams have not been any better than the Texans over the last 4 years.

So what if they fired Kubiak/Smith after 2010, what would you have expected? A play off berth? A division championship? A Play off win? Heck, you probably think the Colts are a better team than we are, but we've done better than them over the last three years.

First 4 years, we sucked. Get over it. We can't change it. McNair can't do anything about it.

Second 4 years, he turned this thing around. We were the Browns, we were the Lions.

Third 4 years, better than half the league. Think about it. Go look. We were better than half the league over the last 4 years.

Hopefully McNair has made moves that will make our next 4 years better than 2/3rds of the league. Hopefully four years from now, we'll look back & realize we were a top 10 team over that time period.

Because that's where we are at. We're on the brink of being a top 10 team in this league, or falling back into mediocrity.
Well said and most will agree with you.

I expect more and YOU should as well. I mean the McNair's have made over a billion $$$$ off of people with this mind set.
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Old 05-03-2014   #107
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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& everything goes in cycles. They're spending money now, because they can. 2010, & 2011, not so much. We're pretty much (now) where they were in 2011. Our time will come.

We manage the cap the same way they do. The same way 30 other teams do. They got more out of their all in move than we did. That's the only difference. Our coaches only got two play off wins & two division titles going all in. They were able to turn in 10 years of success including two Super Bowls & one Lombardi.

They reset the clock two years ago. We're resetting now. Let's see who crosses the finish line first.


Yeah, that's the Koolaid talking.
No not quite, the BIG difference is Colts were in 2010 Super Bowl and didn't have the holes the Texans have.

And no, we don't manage the cap the same. The difference is; 1. McNair's attitude of we have the money and we're going to spend it.

2. The Texans have never been $40 million under the cap, much less $40 million under the cap 2 years in a row.

3. Texans have operated and managed the salary cap under "Coach Think" instead of "GM Think". The difference is Coach Think has a WIN NOW mentality vs GM Think has BIG Picture mentality where 2016 is just as important as 2014 and as a result 2015 will be a better year.
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Old 05-03-2014   #108
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

Hopefully that the team will not just when they and if they draft a QB. They will give him protection as that is what they lacked in protecting David Carr. All of those sacks had to take a wear and tear on his body!
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Old 05-03-2014   #109
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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Must spread rep.
Some hold on to the past like a vengeful spouse who will never let you forget the fact that you forgot an anniversary ten years ago.
Tell me what's change and why does Smith still have a job?
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Old 05-03-2014   #110
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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Well the scoreboard disagrees with you. Since the Texans have adopted the yearly policy of having little no salary cap room to start the new year, along with having to borrow $$$ from future years in order to pay a full 53 man roster this year, the Texans have gone down hill every year since and are currently in complete disarray. Until the salary cap allows the Texans the ability to afford replacing lost free agents with equal or better talent, instead of vet minimums the best you can expect is 8-8. You can not build a winning franchise from the draft alone. You have to be able to supplement the draft with above average talent through free agency. These last 3 years the Texans haven't been able to afford average talent. These 3 years the Texans did not have enough money to fill out the roster with vet minimums.

There is HOPE that one day you will be able to understand this and be able to follow this basic logic. We're not giving up HOPE on you yet. It's not that difficult. Fairly basic stuff here. When the Colts have $40 million to spend 2 years in a row and your team has to borrow money to field a team, YOU SIMPLY CANNOT COMPETE.
Truth is a MF'er sometimes.

Sad part is that IF Smith has a clue in this deep draft it should be better than the 2006 draft. But chances of Smith & company hitting on 5 high level contributors in this draft is slim. (Partly because of the restrictions the McNair's put on him.) I wouldn't count on great improvements.

I really got down on the Texans org after Brian Gardner (Who was a really good Player Pro guy) became the fall guy for the Reed screw up; Smith turned out to be far more of a Teflon guy than Kubiak ever could've been.
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Old 05-03-2014   #111
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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I hope. I didn't say Bob Hopes. He probably feels pretty confident.

& there you go beating that dead horse again. I still do not agree that mismanagement of the cap is the root cause of our salary cap situation. Not in terms of contract value & structure anyway. You make a good arguement tha... no I take that back. Only an idiot can follow your logic.
Hope in one hand and crap in the other. You tell me which one fills up the fastest?
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Old 05-03-2014   #112
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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I'd still rather have Mario Williams over the other options in 2006.
I would have taken D'Brickashaw Ferguson.
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Old 05-04-2014   #113
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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Agree with you 1000%. Some people can't see the possibility that we are currently in a stage where we are re-booting the franchise. Not just "the team," but the entire Houston Texans as an organization.

I'll give O'Brien the benefit of the doubt until they give me reason not to. I'm not 100% on kool aid, either, but, I don't see where this franchise can go but up.


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3rd re boot

2nd re boot with Smith.

Sorry I'm skeptical of the motives.
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Old 05-04-2014   #114
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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And with that, I become a McNair fan.

Never in my life would I have thought I'd ever post that.
If only that could become the truth.
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Old 05-04-2014   #115
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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That much is very true. It was just cool to hear it from the owner is all. The bad thing about it, it sounds like he has a bit more say so in the draft than I would like an owner to have. But at least his logic is sound.
Starting to catch on to the way the Texans org works?
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Old 05-04-2014   #116
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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Come back and talk to me when they have to cough up a $20 mil/yr contract for Andrew Luck and find they can't pay anyone else.

And I don't know if you've noticed but even with all that "spare money" they really haven't done a lot better than we have. Our suckage in 2013 wasn't due to salary cap issues, it was due to injuries and QB performance implosion and McNair meddling (demanding that Keenum be named the starter) ...again.
11-5 vs 2-14

What is reality?
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Old 05-04-2014   #117
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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Colts went worst to first in 2 years and have $40 mil to spend this year. When you have $0 to spend and a team has $80 mil to spend over a couple of years you can't compete. Colts again, are odds on favorite to win division in 2014, the Texans maybe 8-8 if they're lucky. 4 wins may be more reasonable.

Yeah the results for 2013 suckage was directly responsible for having little or no salary cap space for a couple of years. When 25% of your starters and the B team is rookie and vet minimums your depth and special teams are a major part of that suckage. Depth and special teams ranked at the bottom and you can thank the poorly managed salary cap for that. The unacceptable number of holes on this team is direct result of little or no salary cap. McNair's interference (Ed Reed) and "I will spend whatever it takes", attitude, is also a reason for little or no salary cap room every year for the last 3 years.

A team cannot live by the draft alone. 09' draft only Cushing is here, 10' draft, only Jackson and Graham and Graham should be gone. Each year a team can lose a handful of high profile free agents. Unfortunately going on 3 years, the Texans have not been able to replace these lost players with equal talent, much less better talent. This is what finally caught up with them. It doesn't get any better this year, only worse.

Oh, and the Colts were paying Manning a $20 mil a yr contract and still winning the Super Bowl, so it can be done. It's not that difficult. If you have a $130 mil salary cap, $20 mil for QB, $5 mil for special teams, $5 mil for IR, LTBE and practice squad, $50 mil for Offense, $50 mil for defense.
Who is responsible for adding talent?

Seems like simple math to me.
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Old 05-04-2014   #118
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
I answered the question completely and sincerely in post #94. I even gave you a rep for illustrating so well the Texans dysfunctional cap management so much better than I have been able to. As to Thunderkyss response, that was just a little kool aid reflux and regurgitation that happens and often results in the babble of homina homina homina

TK can do his own homework, I'm not his secretary. In regards to Richardson, no disagreement from me. I agree completely it was definitely a WTH is going on decision, head scratcher. Pep Hamilton has since been relegated to play 2nd fiddle to Rob Chudsinski as a result of the Richardson decision. In the general discussion TK couldn't help himself and Richardson argument was the best that he could do even though it led to more homina homina homina babble. On another note when was the last time the Texans were able to trade for and AFFORD a 1st RD draft pick whether the player was GOOD, BAD or INDIFFERENT?
So you're saying Hamilton is being held accountable?

When is the last time that has happened in the Texans org? I mean 2-14 didn't bring a full house cleaning.
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Old 05-04-2014   #119
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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So you're saying Hamilton is being held accountable?

When is the last time that has happened in the Texans org? I mean 2-14 didn't bring a full house cleaning.
To be fair, the last time we went 2-14, the GM didn't get canned until after the draft. His best while with the Texans by the way.
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Old 05-04-2014   #120
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Default Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

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To be fair, the last time we went 2-14, the GM didn't get canned until after the draft. His best while with the Texans by the way.
Do you really think Smith will be fired after the draft?
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