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Old 05-05-2014   #221
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Very few are talking about Mack with the same kind of superlatives and descriptions as a prospect that they are about Clowney who's the consensus if not near unanimous choice as the top talent in this Draft, and as an edge-rusher he's plays at a highly valued, premium position. Now if your argument is that these people are just off of the mark in their ratings of Clowey, OK fine that's your prerogative.
I think Mack is the safer pick. A guy that doesn`t have to learn a new position, a guy that already has pretty good technique and a guy with a neverending motor. Clowney doesn`t have the technique down and a questionable motor. As far as upside is concerned, I don`t think there is a question that Clowney is the guy.

So do you bet on the once in a generation physical talent or do you take the "safe" pick. IŽd take the former, but I fully understand anyone who would rather have Mack. My thing is just: if we want Mack, IŽd prefer to trade down. Even if we don`t end up with him, I see him in a group of a couple of guys talentwise, and if we get any of them plus extra picks IŽm fine.
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Old 05-05-2014   #222
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

Is there wisdom in a strategy of first taking Clowney with the intention of trading him later in the Draft ?
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Old 05-05-2014   #223
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Is there wisdom in a strategy of first taking Clowney with the intention of trading him later in the Draft ?
Draft then trade is tougher now because teams are married to the slot after selection... would have problems fitting #1 pick into a #6 rookie $$ pool.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...6&#post2329566
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Old 05-05-2014   #224
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Draft then trade is tougher now because teams are married to the slot after selection... would have problems fitting #1 pick into a #6 rookie $$ pool.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...6&#post2329566
That's a good point that I hadn't thought of before. I would think that would be negotiated into the deal in the form of fewer picks traded.
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Old 05-06-2014   #225
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

Lance Zierlein ‏@LanceZierlein
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I don’t see the Houston Texans and Bill O’Brien/Rick Smith taking a chance at #1 on just traits if a guy has questionable football character

If this information is correct, and I have no reason to believe his team didn’t hear this Clowney info, I think Texans go Mack.

Had conversation w/ friend for team inside top 10 about Clowney late last night. He said his team got rough evals on football character from South Carolina
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Old 05-06-2014   #226
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

Draft room debates...
Quote:
1. Houston Texans
Matt Williamson's recommendation: Jadeveon Clowney
The main reason to take Clowney with this pick is because he is a unique talent with the upside to turn into an all-time great player. With Clowney and J.J. Watt, the Texans could have an elite defense as soon as 2014, with two players that every offense they face must game plan for. Think of it this way: Who would the division-rival Indianapolis Colts rather Houston draft, Clowney or Blake Bortles? Of course the answer to that question is Bortles. The Texans shouldn't overthink this one, and instead just take the best player in this draft.

Aaron Schatz's recommendation: Teddy Bridgewater, Khalil Mack or Jadeveon Clowney
Projecting guys from college to the pros is still one of the most difficult things in football; even for positions where we've developed projections, those formulas are imperfect. Scouting still plays the biggest role here. Where analytics come in is to determine not whom to pick, but rather how to best use picks to get the most value compared to the other 31 teams. Mack and Clowney are the best players available (our projection system actually prefers Mack, but more on that later). Pass rush is a hugely important part of the game, but ask yourself this: How often does a team with a top quarterback go far in the playoffs, and how often does a team with top pass-rushers go far in the playoffs? To give one example, last year's final four teams featured two of the top veteran quarterbacks and two of the top young quarterbacks, but no pass-rusher with 12 or more sacks. If the Texans want to take a quarterback, then you get to the confusing problem of which quarterback to take. I favor Bridgewater (more on that later as well), although others on this panel may believe he'll be available for the Texans to take later.

Louis Riddick's recommendation: Khalil Mack or a trade down
I would recommend that the Texans do whatever they can to trade out of the first overall pick if they can get reasonable value. Given the Falcons' history, need for perimeter rushers and the fact that Clowney played in the SEC, they are a legitimate trade partner. But if the Texans can't trade the pick, I'd suggest they take Mack, which is a departure from what I would have said a few weeks ago. The staff in Houston that would be working closely with Clowney on a daily basis has zero tolerance for anything resembling less than 100 percent commitment to practice and preparation, so when you factor in some of the effort concerns with Clowney, along with the fact that Mack is a better scheme fit, I'd lean toward Mack.

Mark Dominik's pick: Jadeveon Clowney, DE, South Carolina
There are some compelling arguments here, but to me this one comes down to a simple rule: Don't ever pass up the best player on the board. Clowney is such a rare athlete and has so much upside and potential. Being able to pair him with a player like Watt gives them so much latitude on defense to do so many different things schematically, and you can never have too many pass-rushers. If there were a quarterback in this grade range, you'd go with him here. But in this class, Clowney is a level above every player in this draft, quarterbacks and Mack included.
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Old 05-06-2014   #227
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

All of this seems to contradict this:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/n...nstant-contact

Quote:
He has been called spoiled and lazy by anonymous NFL evaluators, but perhaps the only opinion that should matter to pass rusher Jadeveon Clowney is that of Houston Texans general manager Rick Smith.

And according to Clowney, all Smith is calling him is ... often.

Clowney told The State he spoke with Smith two or three times last week, and the volume of contact won't be dialed back this week.
Think what all this means is that the draft is near and every little story is coming out from every direction. Let the fun begin!
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Old 05-06-2014   #228
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

All of your draft questions can be answered with my jump to conclusions mat!

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Old 05-06-2014   #229
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Originally Posted by DX-TEX View Post
Seems like a no brainer IMO. Mack already plays a 3-4 OLB. No need to get him to learn much just tweak. Where as Clowney is a complete build upt o learn the position.
I agree with this mentality. The more I see on Mack, the more I think he's ultimately going to prove to be the defensive great in this draft. High motor guy who wants to be Ray Lewis and Clay Matthews in one package. Put him next to Cushing behind Watt, and this could really be the nucleus of a great D.

And like you said, he's already plug-and-play ready for the 3-4 defense.

I know the metrics have Clowney rated higher, but the Texans should pick who they really want instead of going for the favorite.
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Old 05-06-2014   #230
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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I agree with this mentality. The more I see on Mack, the more I think he's ultimately going to prove to be the defensive great in this draft. High motor guy who wants to be Ray Lewis and Clay Matthews in one package. Put him next to Cushing behind Watt, and this could really be the nucleus of a great D.

And like you said, he's already plug-and-play ready for the 3-4 defense.

I know the metrics have Clowney rated higher, but the Texans should pick who they really want instead of going for the favorite.
I predict that Barr has a better career than Mack. If Mack can even make it past 4 years.
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Old 05-06-2014   #231
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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I predict that Barr has a better career than Mack. If Mack can even make it past 4 years.
I'm cool with Barr, too. I like high motor defenders who can contribute almost immediately. (Which is why I sorta' hope they pass on Clowney.)
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Old 05-06-2014   #232
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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I predict that Barr has a better career than Mack. If Mack can even make it past 4 years.
I predict that Jeremiah Attaochu will be the best edge rusher/defensive player in this draft.
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Old 05-06-2014   #233
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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I predict that Barr has a better career than Mack. If Mack can even make it past 4 years.
Barr is a prospect where Mack is a proven commodity. The butthurt is strong with you.
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Old 05-06-2014   #234
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Originally Posted by NastyNate View Post
Barr is a prospect where Mack is a proven commodity. The butthurt is strong with you.
What has Mack/Clowney/Barr or any other player in this draft proven? The draft is all about projection.
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Old 05-06-2014   #235
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Barr is a prospect where Mack is a proven commodity. The butthurt is strong with you.
??? That's a pretty strong statement!!! Sounds like the man-crush is strong with you!! LOL

Since when did playing at Buffalo State give you "proven commodity" status in the NFL?
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Old 05-06-2014   #236
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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??? That's a pretty strong statement!!! Sounds like the man-crush is strong with you!! LOL

Since when did playing at Buffalo State give you "proven commodity" status in the NFL?
Proven in college, where Barr only has 1 real year of production. 4>1. I seem to remember another guy who came out of a small school (troy university) doing pretty well in the NFL. Demarcus something...
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Old 05-06-2014   #237
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Proven in college, where Barr only has 1 real year of production. 4>1. I seem to remember another guy who came out of a small school (troy university) doing pretty well in the NFL. Demarcus something...
Don't forget the best to ever lace 'em up...Jerry Ricecake...Not of that means proven commodity, though. And it also makes me think Barr has the higher ceiling while Mack would have the higher floor. Regardless, it's all a role of the dice.

For every Ware and Rice, there are 10+ Leaf's and Russell's.

Just sayin....

BTW, I like Mack. I'm just not infatuated in him and I'm not sure how well he'll translate in the NFL. Kinda like the D version of Manziel to me.
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Old 05-07-2014   #238
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Proven in college, where Barr only has 1 real year of production. 4>1. I seem to remember another guy who came out of a small school (troy university) doing pretty well in the NFL. Demarcus something...
Mack is a great defensive player in college, which has gotten better every year. He has very good stats and had a pretty good combine. But the little tape I watched on him, he didn`t look dominant. He looked hesistant at times, got pushed around a lot, showed little explosion of the snap and didn`t seem to make fast decisions. All of this against not really the best competition.

This might sound very negative - I am not that negative on him. I believe he deserves to be a top 5 or at least a top 10 pick. I am just saying he also has some question marks around him and he definetly lacks the wow factor of a guy like Manziel or Clowney. IŽd be ok if we take him, mostly because he fits our defense perfectly and he is actually pretty good in coverage as well. But IŽd prefer a player that looks like something really special (Clowney, Robinson - probably even Manziel, though I have way more question marks around him than I do around Mack).
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Old 05-07-2014   #239
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Mack is a great defensive player in college, which has gotten better every year. He has very good stats and had a pretty good combine. But the little tape I watched on him, he didn`t look dominant. He looked hesistant at times, got pushed around a lot, showed little explosion of the snap and didn`t seem to make fast decisions. All of this against not really the best competition.

This might sound very negative - I am not that negative on him. I believe he deserves to be a top 5 or at least a top 10 pick. I am just saying he also has some question marks around him and he definetly lacks the wow factor of a guy like Manziel or Clowney. IŽd be ok if we take him, mostly because he fits our defense perfectly and he is actually pretty good in coverage as well. But IŽd prefer a player that looks like something really special (Clowney, Robinson - probably even Manziel, though I have way more question marks around him than I do around Mack).
I couldn't agree more with your assessment of Mack. All the things you noted that is lacking in Mack's game you will find in Attaochu's game and against much better competition.
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Old 05-07-2014   #240
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Barr is a prospect where Mack is a proven commodity. The butthurt is strong with you.
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