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Old 04-12-2014   #1
powda
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Default O'Brien's gambit?

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...857#post165857

I sometimes enjoy reading through ancient threads to get a feel for where we were as fans. Revisiting threads also means accountability as posters. Who was right or wrong? This specific thread (linked) has particular nostalgic value for me as it and a handful of pm's are the origin of the pink soap fight club avatars which become so popular here when posters want somebody fired. The innovators of that avatar concept as I see it are kaiser and herv and that is where it began.

In holding true to the spirit of that thread I have to wonder outloud about something more recent. O'Brien and his lack of an offensive coordinator. Is it foolhardy for a first time nfl coach to enter the biggest season of his professional career without an offensive coordinator? Doesn't it display what kind of pull he has at Kirby?

Consider:

If the Texans offense is successful and the juggernaut we want it to be, OB will be the undisputed architect of the offense and reap all the rewards. Acclaim will be solely his for engineering the system.

However, if things go south and the offense is dismal what's the recourse? How would you react? I wager a fair percentage of fans will argue on OB's behalf claiming head coaching duties and offensive coordinator responsibilities are just to much for one man. AND THAT'S THE GAMBIT.

Has O'Brien already installed a security blanket and bought himself an extra season by not having an offensive coordinator this year?
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Old 04-12-2014   #2
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

I think we get too hung up on who's called what and what not. OB is the head coach, but the defense is RAC's baby. Obrien will build his offense.

Same way it was with Kubiak, except Crennel knows what he's doing. No question about that. The question is whether O'Brien can handle his business.

But we didn't have an offensive coordinator in 2006. It was Kubiak & Shanahan was more of an intern. I don't think he was actually an "offensive coordinator" until 2008.

I wouldn't worry about it, it'll play out the way it'll play out.
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Old 04-12-2014   #3
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Same way it was with Kubiak, except Crennel knows what he's doing. No question about that. The question is whether O'Brien can handle his business.

But we didn't have an offensive coordinator in 2006. It was Kubiak & Shanahan was more of an intern. I don't think he was actually an "offensive coordinator" until 2008.

I wouldn't worry about it, it'll play out the way it'll play out.
Same way in that Kubiak called the plays primarily but:

2006 - Troy Calhoun OC
2007 - Mike Sherman OC
2008 - Kyle Shanahan OC
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Old 04-12-2014   #4
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

While I would prefer a OC, I don't think OB is building a safety net for job protection. He will not be fired if he goes 0-16. I think he just did not see the need.
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Old 04-12-2014   #5
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

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While I would prefer a OC, I don't think OB is building a safety net for job protection. He will not be fired if he goes 0-16. I think he just did not see the need.
Perhaps. My post is not an argument for or against anything. Merely an observation I wanted feedback on. It's just as likely a competent offensive coordinator OB favored is not available or maybe OB is so controlling he refuses to seek aide in that department. The end result appears to be a safety net for OB while Ricky Smith is hauled off to a shooting squad in the event of a catastrophic season.
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Old 04-12-2014   #6
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

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Perhaps. My post is not an argument for or against anything. Merely an observation I wanted feedback on. It's just as likely a competent offensive coordinator OB favored is not available or maybe OB is so controlling he refuses to seek aide in that department. The end result appears to be a safety net for OB while Ricky Smith is hauled off to a shooting squad in the event of a catastrophic season.
I apparently takes 8 yrs to be fired after a medicore at best tenure. Appartently it will take longer than that to fire a medicore at best GM.

So I wouldn't worry about BOB being fired any time soon.
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Old 04-12-2014   #7
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

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I apparently takes 8 yrs to be fired after a medicore at best tenure. Appartently it will take longer than that to fire a medicore at best GM.

So I wouldn't worry about BOB being fired any time soon.
I agree. It appears BOB is in no immediate danger but it seems gm's have a longer leash here then hc s. The oc on BOB's team would resemble a sham as it did with Kubiak's tenure because we all know who's running the show...but there is no formal scapegoat...hence the luxury of some leeway. I just find it convenient and think some here will use it as an excuse to overlook a poor offense.
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Old 04-12-2014   #8
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

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Originally Posted by powda View Post
...Has O'Brien already installed a security blanket and bought himself an extra season by not having an offensive coordinator this year?
Unlike the Browns or the Buccaneers or the Redskins the Texans ownership does not buy into a 2/3 or even 1 year coaching cycle, so secret security blankets aren't needed.

But I'm sure someone somewhere is already decorating their soap bars and typing up their All encompassing fire him threads.
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Old 04-12-2014   #9
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I apparently takes 8 yrs to be fired after a medicore at best tenure. Appartently it will take longer than that to fire a medicore at best GM.

So I wouldn't worry about BOB being fired any time soon.
You've heard the owner say he still believes we have enough of a core of good players that he thinks (or says he thinks) that we should contend for the playoffs. If that is so, then he thinks the GM did HIS job by supplying a solid roster. Now we may not agree with Uncle Bob's assessment of the roster but he (Uncle Bob) thinks what he thinks. Having been provided with a solid core of players, the previous coaches failed to get the best out of them and are, as expected, gone. When Uncle Bob finally perceives our roster is substandard, then the GM is no longer doing his job and will be replaced. But not until Uncle Bob is unhappy with our roster.
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Old 04-12-2014   #10
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

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You've heard the owner say he still believes we have enough of a core of good players that he thinks (or says he thinks) that we should contend for the playoffs. If that is so, then he thinks the GM did HIS job by supplying a solid roster. Now we may not agree with Uncle Bob's assessment of the roster but he (Uncle Bob) thinks what he thinks. Having been provided with a solid core of players, the previous coaches failed to get the best out of them and are, as expected, gone. When Uncle Bob finally perceives our roster is substandard, then the GM is no longer doing his job and will be replaced. But not until Uncle Bob is unhappy with our roster.
AND by hiring a new coach that has to install new schemes, the GM is going to have to ditch some players and get some other players for these new schemes. So there's a possibility he's got a couple of years grace, as well... although I'm still not totally convinced he won't be shown the door after the draft like Casserly was.
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Old 04-12-2014   #11
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

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...then he thinks the GM did HIS job by supplying a solid roster. Now we may not agree with Uncle Bob's assessment of the roster but he (Uncle Bob) thinks what he thinks. Having been provided with a solid core of players...
I understand people not liking the guys we have on our team, but like you said, McNair believes we've got a good group of guys..... & all our players keep getting snatched up by other teams... so there are other folks out there who like the players Rick Smith picks.
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Old 04-12-2014   #12
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
AND by hiring a new coach that has to install new schemes, the GM is going to have to ditch some players and get some other players for these new schemes. So there's a possibility he's got a couple of years grace, as well... although I'm still not totally convinced he won't be shown the door after the draft like Casserly was.
I may be alone in this, but I think our GM is a glorified delivery service. The coaches specify what "ingredients" they need to "cook the meal" and Smith and his scouts do what they can to get the types of players the coaches have identified. And if he can wheel & deal and get those guys and snag extra picks in the process, so much the better.

I don't think Smith actually makes any of the picks on his own. I think the coaching staff sets the big board, not Smith. I think Smith has input but not the final vote. I'm pretty sure Kubiak had the final call when he was here and I'll bet O'Brien will too. Only Uncle Bob can override an O'Brien selection. If we end up with Manziel, I'd bet good money that it was McNair's call.
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Old 04-12-2014   #13
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I may be alone in this, but I think our GM is a glorified delivery service. The coaches specify what "ingredients" they need to "cook the meal" and Smith and his scouts do what they can to get the types of players the coaches have identified. And if he can wheel & deal and get those guys and snag extra picks in the process, so much the better.

I don't think Smith actually makes any of the picks on his own. I think the coaching staff sets the big board, not Smith. I think Smith has input but not the final vote. I'm pretty sure Kubiak had the final call when he was here and I'll bet O'Brien will too. Only Uncle Bob can override an O'Brien selection. If we end up with Manziel, I'd bet good money that it was McNair's call.
I would really love to know the truth with this. What are the main reasons you think Smith is just a flunky for the coaches?

I saw Draft Day today, so yeah.....
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Old 04-12-2014   #14
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

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I agree. It appears BOB is in no immediate danger but it seems gm's have a longer leash here then hc s.
So out of a set of two examples one to the contrary and one not (maybe) you have come to this general rule? That's like flipping a quarter twice, getting heads the first time, tails the second and concluding this quarter seems to like tails.
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Old 04-12-2014   #15
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

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I would really love to know the truth with this. What are the main reasons you think Smith is just a flunky for the coaches?

I saw Draft Day today, so yeah.....
I wouldn't use the term "flunky". Just that he's not one of those GMs who gets players as he sees fit and tells the coaches to "shut up and make do with what I brung ya."
I see him as more of a "tell us what you guys need and we'll go find them" kind of GM. "Us" being the scouting staff and his GM staff.
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Old 04-12-2014   #16
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

Seems like folks are viewing GMs as at two extreme ends of a scale with 1 being the HC says go get that guy regardless of the cost and a 10 being a GM who picks who he wants when and tells the HC here's your team.

I imagine most teams are much more in the middle with the HC targeting players they want and the GM having everyone value ranked such that the HC gets to pick from the menu of available "value" players. If the player is out of the ballpark on value either high or low a discussion ensues on moving. Who has final say varies but doesn't mean the whole rest of the process was pro forma, yes man stuff for the other.
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Old 04-12-2014   #17
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Seems like folks are viewing GMs as at two extreme ends of a scale with 1 being the HC says go get that guy regardless of the cost and a 10 being a GM who picks who he wants when and tells the HC here's your team.

I imagine most teams are much more in the middle with the HC targeting players they want and the GM having everyone value ranked such that the HC gets to pick from the menu of available "value" players. If the player is out of the ballpark on value either high or low a discussion ensues on moving. Who has final say varies but doesn't mean the whole rest of the process was pro forma, yes man stuff for the other.
This is how I envision it working for the vast majority of teams with maybe 5 or 6 teams that are at either extreme end.
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Old 04-12-2014   #18
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I may be alone in this, but I think our GM is a glorified delivery service. The coaches specify what "ingredients" they need to "cook the meal" and Smith and his scouts do what they can to get the types of players the coaches have identified. And if he can wheel & deal and get those guys and snag extra picks in the process, so much the better.

I don't think Smith actually makes any of the picks on his own. I think the coaching staff sets the big board, not Smith. I think Smith has input but not the final vote. I'm pretty sure Kubiak had the final call when he was here and I'll bet O'Brien will too. Only Uncle Bob can override an O'Brien selection. If we end up with Manziel, I'd bet good money that it was McNair's call.
I think the answer is that nobody really knows. I feel like Smith gets credit for all the bad picks and from what I've gathered on the boards the overall mindset seems to be Mario was a Kubiak pick, Okoye was a Smith pick, Duane Brown was a Gibbs pick, not sure who gets credit for Cushing, Kareem Jackson was a Smith pick, Watt was a Phillips pick, and so forth.

I think every pick is a mixture of opinions coming to the best compromise. I know two brothers that are both huge Bills fans and share a fantasy football team in a big money league, both super knowledgeable about the game. I asked them how they make decisions in the draft and they said that they typically agree on most things but if someone felt very strongly about a player they would cede to the strong feeling and draft that player.

This is my best guess as to the drafting style of the Texans. With that being said I don't think that Smith would still have his job if he was pro Akoye and anti Watt for example. If he wasn't right more than he was wrong I don't think Mcnair would be keeping him around. Nobody knows what goes on behind the scenes but Kubiak is gone, Phillips is gone, and Smith is still here. With these being the only facts I have to work with, I have to say that Smith was probably a lot more involved with the good picks than he gets credit for.
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Old 04-12-2014   #19
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

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I wouldn't use the term "flunky". Just that he's not one of those GMs who gets players as he sees fit and tells the coaches to "shut up and make do with what I brung ya."
I see him as more of a "tell us what you guys need and we'll go find them" kind of GM. "Us" being the scouting staff and his GM staff.
Aha! Did I mention that I saw Draft Day today? LOL
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Old 04-12-2014   #20
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Default Re: O'Brien's gambit?

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So out of a set of two examples one to the contrary and one not (maybe) you have come to this general rule? That's like flipping a quarter twice, getting heads the first time, tails the second and concluding this quarter seems to like tails.
I see 2 coaches fired and only 1 gm let go. The sample size is limited no doubt...the term "rule" is stronger then my intention. But Ricky is here is he not? Should I assume the gm here has less authority based on these results? I wont assume the HC has anything to do with our cap issues and still Kevlar Rick remains.

Your analogy is off. A coin is 50/50. So far the texans ledger reads:

Minus 2 hc's
Minus 1 gm

What conclusions should I conjure based on that?
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