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Old 03-25-2014   #441
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Hasn't been the Texans' MO:

1 2013 6 176 David Quessenberry OL
2 2013 6 195 Alan Bonner WR
3 2013 6 198 Chris Jones DT
4 2013 6 201 Ryan Griffin TE
5 2012 6 195 Nick Mondek OL
6 2010 6 187 Shelley Smith G
7 2010 6 197 Trindon Holliday WR
8 2009 6 188 Brice McCain DB
9 2008 6 173 Dominique Barber DB
10 2007 6 183 Kasey Studdard G
11 2006 6 170 Wali Lundy RB
Thanks for strengthening my comment though I should have said not been of much value rather than making roster. I was thinking of the percentile of each pick dropping with each round. While I was optimistic with all of the above only Studdard & McCain played much of a role and I think Studdard's role with Kubiak helped him immensely. I am ok with a 6th rather than nothing just believe Smith caved way too soon.
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Old 03-25-2014   #442
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Who's to say they didn't hold out and maxed out their return with Oakland.. Nobody knows how the negotiations went down. And most 6th round picks make the final roster.. How many 6th round picks have we drafted that didn't make the final roster? With all the holes we have I can guarantee you this 6th round pick will make the cut.. if this pick is used on a player and isn't packaged in a deal to move up.

The Texans were lucky to get anything for Schaub.. everybody knew he was going to be cut.
Pressure should have been on Oakland unless Cleveland informed them they were not interested. True we don't know if they held out for maximum return but we don't know they did either. I can easily be wrong just seemed they wanted to move MS. Overall, I am more a fan than detractor of Smith but I think he blew this one.
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Old 03-25-2014   #443
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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Pressure should have been on Oakland unless Cleveland informed them they were not interested. True we don't know if they held out for maximum return but we don't know they did either. I can easily be wrong just seemed they wanted to move MS. Overall, I am more a fan than detractor of Smith but I think he blew this one.
When the entire league knows you aren't going to pay a QB 10+ million dollars for a guy who you don't plan to start and who they know you'll cut anyways you don't have much bargaining power to begin with.. Smith was lucky to even get a 6th round pick, so I can't really say he blew this one.. I'd say he made chicken salad out of chicken poo regarding this situation and the position he was in.
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Old 03-25-2014   #444
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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Thanks for strengthening my comment though I should have said not been of much value rather than making roster. I was thinking of the percentile of each pick dropping with each round. While I was optimistic with all of the above only Studdard & McCain played much of a role and I think Studdard's role with Kubiak helped him immensely. I am ok with a 6th rather than nothing just believe Smith caved way too soon.
I'd say (a) it blew your comment up and (b) you've been playing armchair GM far too much.

Can you provide a list of bloated contract marginal aging starters who have been traded for substantially more?
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Old 03-25-2014   #445
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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I'd say (a) it blew your comment up and (b) you've been playing armchair GM far too much.

Can you provide a list of bloated contract marginal aging starters who have been traded for substantially more?
lol on first.
My premise was Oakland evaluated MS as a starter and we did not utilize that. Just my opinion.
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Old 03-25-2014   #446
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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lol on first.
My premise was Oakland evaluated MS as a starter and we did not utilize that. Just my opinion.
Yes they saw him as a starter... which is why they actually traded a pick for him and not just waited for us to inevitably cut him. You're severely overrating Matt Schaub's trade value here. It's rare teams trade for players that they know will be cut if a trade agreement isn't reached, especially a player who has the type of cap hit Schaub had. If I was the Raiders and if Rick Smith tried to "hold out further or tried to pressure me" I would've laughed in his face and hung up the phone.
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Old 03-25-2014   #447
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
The Texans were lucky to get anything for Schaub.. everybody knew he was going to be cut.
Sounds like Oakland didn't want us to cut Schaub. There's no guarantee they can get him if he hit the market, at the very least, they would have had to overpay to get him... which is the nature of FA.

By trading with us, they guarantee they get their guy at a price they're comfortable paying (though they did renegotiate his contract).

Not that I agree with badboy, just saying he's got a point. The Raiders wanted Schaub & they didn't want to wait for him to hit the market.
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Old 03-25-2014   #448
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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lol on first.
My premise was Oakland evaluated MS as a starter and we did not utilize that. Just my opinion.
Was there a bidding war for Schaub that I missed? The only way this could even possibly be a scenario is if you have somebody else who is willing to give up compensation for Schaub. Trying to strong-arm a team into giving you more picks because you suspect he will be the starter will end up with the Texans holding onto Schaub throughout the draft and then getting nothing for him because you were going to cut him by June 1st anyway (Something which the rest of the league already knew).
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Old 03-25-2014   #449
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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lol on first.
My premise was Oakland evaluated MS as a starter and we did not utilize that. Just my opinion.
I agree on this. Unless McKenzie is just blowing some major smoke (& he may be) he sounds like he believes Schaub is going help his team contend for the division. He's already compared Schaub to Rivers, Manning... even Brees.

Everything else they've done signals "win now" mode.


At the same time, they negotiated an even less expensive cap number for
Schaub. So... there's that.
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Old 03-25-2014   #450
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
At the same time, they negotiated an even less expensive cap number for
Schaub. So... there's that.
According to spotrac they moved things around but their cap hit this year is still $11.7 mil.

The Raiders were bidding against the possibility of not being Schaub's 1st choice if he hit the open market. That's it.
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Old 03-25-2014   #451
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

If Schaub would have been released out right the general consensus was he would sign in Cleveland because of Shanahan. Raiders beat writers say McKenzie knew this and made the trade happen.
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Old 03-25-2014   #452
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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Sounds like Oakland didn't want us to cut Schaub. There's no guarantee they can get him if he hit the market, at the very least, they would have had to overpay to get him... which is the nature of FA.

By trading with us, they guarantee they get their guy at a price they're comfortable paying (though they did renegotiate his contract).

Not that I agree with badboy, just saying he's got a point. The Raiders wanted Schaub & they didn't want to wait for him to hit the market.
umm nobody said they didn't want Schaub.. it's what price they wanted to pay for him. It's very possible they were never ever willing to spend more than what they spent so I don't see the point in trying to argue Rick Smith could've gotten more than a 6th round pick out of the Raiders. Hell there's people who already believe the Raiders screwed up by trading that.
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Old 03-25-2014   #453
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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If Schaub would have been released out right the general consensus was he would sign in Cleveland because of Shanahan. Raiders beat writers say McKenzie knew this and made the trade happen.
Yes nobody is trying to argue that wasn't the consensus.. but that's the only reason why we ever got a draft pick for Schaub.. My point is just because the Raiders wanted Schaub doesn't mean they were ever willing to trade more than a 6th round pick for him. If we pushed the asking price too high they simply could of told us to take a walk and hung up the phone.
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Old 03-25-2014   #454
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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Yes nobody is trying to argue that wasn't the consensus.. but that's the only reason why we ever got a draft pick for Schaub.. My point is just because the Raiders wanted Schaub doesn't mean they were ever willing to trade more than a 6th round pick for him. If we pushed the asking price too high they simply could of told us to take a walk and hung up the phone.
I can buy this. If the Browns wanted Schaub badly enough, they could've gotten him at a very reasonable price.

IMO, The Browns smartly sat back to see what would happen. 99.99% of football people (fans and professionals) probably thought Schaub would be cut because of his contract and the Browns would automatically be the favorite because of Shannahan.
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Old 03-25-2014   #455
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
According to spotrac they moved things around but their cap hit this year is still $11.7 mil.

The Raiders were bidding against the possibility of not being Schaub's 1st choice if he hit the open market. That's it.
I think that's still the old contract (pre-Oakland restructure). The $11.7 is for 2012, and it still shows a $10M base salary for 2014. I'm guessing they don't have the details to update it (Spotrac) yet.

Doesn't look like OvertheCap.com has updated anything yet either.
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Old 03-25-2014   #456
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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I think that's still the old contract (pre-Oakland restructure). The $11.7 is for 2012, and it still shows a $10M base salary for 2014. I'm guessing they don't have the details to update it (Spotrac) yet.

Doesn't look like OvertheCap.com has updated anything yet either.

Ooops.
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Old 03-25-2014   #457
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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It's very possible they were never ever willing to spend more than what they spent...
I see. Interesting opinion.


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so I don't see the point in trying to argue Rick Smith could've gotten more than a 6th round pick out of the Raiders.
Are you sure about that?

You're arguing it. You & infantrycak act as if it's worth arguing the point.
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Old 03-25-2014   #458
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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I see. Interesting opinion.




Are you sure about that?

You're arguing it. You & infantrycak act as if it's worth arguing the point.
I have no idea if it's possible, but my hope is that we find out one day that the 6th round pick is conditional based on performance, and could actually go higher. Aren't there instances where the information released to the public is not always accurate or complete?
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Old 03-25-2014   #459
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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I have no idea if it's possible, but my hope is that we find out one day that the 6th round pick is conditional based on performance, and could actually go higher. Aren't there instances where the information released to the public is not always accurate or complete?
Those are for picks the next year, not the current one. This 6th is in 2014.

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Are you sure about that?

You're arguing it. You & infantrycak act as if it's worth arguing the point.
I'm pretty sure I disputed badboy's assertion 6th round picks are essentially worthless and asked a question about trades comporting with his expectations which he declined to answer.
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Old 03-25-2014   #460
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Default Re: Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

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I have no idea if it's possible, but my hope is that we find out one day that the 6th round pick is conditional based on performance, and could actually go higher. Aren't there instances where the information released to the public is not always accurate or complete?
I believe we're going to use that pick way before Schaub starts the first game for the Raiders. If it were a future pick, it's possible to be conditional based on performance. But we got their pick in this draft.

I do agree that getting a sixth is a windfall for getting Schaub. However, I had no idea that the Raiders would be wanting him to start & didn't pay any attention to the moves they've been making, which says they are in "win now" now mode.

I have no problems believing Rick Smith was more in tune to the situation than I was & unlike badboy, I do believe Smith got as much blood out of this turnip that he could.
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