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Old 03-15-2014   #61
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
I agree. I'm not saying go all in FA, but I have real concerns about the history of this organization and developing talent and keeping it in house. I do hope a lot that this staff does a much better job of it. If the FO really wants to build through the draft, gotta get better at the draft.
We'll see.
The offense will be brand new and the guys installing and implementing it are mostly new to the NFL.

The defensive side has some history and with the retention of Kollar, a little bit of continuity.

Personally, I don't think Rick Smith actually picked the players that were drafted. He and his scouting team complied a list of prospects based on what he knew Kubiak and Wade wanted to execute the offense and defense, respectively. Then Wade and Gary ranked those players from "most desired" to "he'll do" and Smith made picks accordingly.

To expect the scouting staff and Rick Smith to know what kind of players O'Brien and Crennel want to make their offense/defense be successful without ever seeing it is hopeful at best, IMO.

So this year is shaky because the parts of the team responsible for selecting all the right players for the respective schemes are just getting to know each other.

Side Note:
For those who wonder why Rick Smith is still here, ask yourself who would O'Brien have wanted in that job? Unless you can point to someone - with GM experience - who's worked with O'Brien and knows what he looks for in players, then there's no advantage to firing Rick Smith.
Flame away.
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Old 03-15-2014   #62
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by djohn2oo8 View Post
Why are people saying no more than 6 wins? A huge problem last year was the offense being figured out.
That offense still got Andre Johnson .... so open (on many occasions) that no one was within 15 yards of him. How the hell do multiple defenders lose that guy ?! ..... Oh , the offensive scheme ....

The offense works when you execute it , they didn't have the talent to execute it.

RT , RG , LG .... fail.

RB at times had Tate playing with broken ribs or street FA's toting the rock .... FAIL.


QB ..... EPIC f'ing Fail.
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Old 03-15-2014   #63
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

I see the next 2 years being a big suck fest. We just don't have the talent on offense to hang with the high powered teams of today. Our defense struggles with the pass. Only one I have any confidence in is watt. And without any splash in FA, we're looking at a bunch of rookies starting week 1. Which isn't very promising. Get ready for another below .500 season fellas.
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Old 03-15-2014   #64
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

Allowing Smith and Tate walk for pennies on the dollar should answer OP's question. It's a firesale and I doubt they are finished.
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Old 03-15-2014   #65
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
LOL I wouldn't exactly look at TB as a model to follow. Recently, they've consistently been big spenders in FA. And they may have actually lost more games than they were before.
I would chalk up last year's failures to the HC/QB circus they had. Lovie will bring some sanity and stability. And I think they have to make moves given that their division has three studs at QB in Matty Ryan, Drew Brees, and Cam Newton. They don't really have time to wait on youngsters to develop if they want to stay halfway competitive. I think they have to spend.

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. You build through the draft and you complement those pieces through FA. Every single successful franchise does this. Every single one.

Why hamstring yourself with FA signings who you will have to overpay for? Especially when the cap situation you inherited is far from ideal. Wait it out and find the bargains. Then fill your holes in the draft.

We'll be more active in FA next year after the coaches have had a year to see where the current group of players fit the system. But I would still be surprised to see this regime become big spenders.
I pretty much agree with this philosophy. And I believe that the bolded answers the "are we rebuilding" question "Yes we are" if it isn't clear for you). The coaches need at least training camp and preseason to see where the holes are and the scouting team needs to get that input to see who's out in the college and next year's F/A group that might fit (and that we can afford). In fact, they may need a whole season to get all these ducks in a row.
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Old 03-15-2014   #66
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
That offense still got Andre Johnson .... so open (on many occasions) that no one was within 15 yards of him. How the hell do multiple defenders lose that guy ?! ..... Oh , the offensive scheme ....

The offense works when you execute it , they didn't have the talent to execute it.

RT , RG , LG .... fail.

RB at times had Tate playing with broken ribs or street FA's toting the rock .... FAIL.


QB ..... EPIC f'ing Fail.
What happened when the running game wasn't working? Who was open then? It was amazing how the line went from protecting Schaub to not protecting Keenum. Kubiak could not adjust, or did not to when they blitzed Keenum, which made them predictable. First play of every single game was playaction, don't tell me that the offense wasn't predictable.
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Old 03-15-2014   #67
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

Hey Rob
Quote:
work ethic and character were bigger issues).
Some of that was from supposed leadership.

That said, I think there was great men in leadership positions that were not inherently leaders. I wish your relative "all the best" and unfortunately for the Texans he will. He will succeed in his new duties which should be scary for the rest of the AFC!


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As an aside Rob, I would like to have dinner with you, Chris et al like we did at the seafood restaurant. I had a killer time.
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Old 03-15-2014   #68
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Default Getting depressed about our direction

This post might get to be a little long. I'm posting it mainly so that someone out there can disagree with me, and hopefully make me a bit more optimistic about the future. Basically, as time has gone on (basically since the O'Brien hire), I've been getting more and more pessimistic about the future for the Texans.

When we hit the end of the season, I was actually optimistic. I saw our team as one with good potential (I really thought we were playoff bound at the beginning of last year). I saw the coaching change as addressing the biggest problem we were facing. And, with the #1 pick in the draft and a set of QB prospects that looked good, I thought we were on our way to fixing our biggest player weakness (QB) and would have some good draft picks with which to plug some other holes.

Since then, what I've seen is:
1) We've lost lots of people in Free Agency. Except for Antonio Smith, I don't really care about most of them, specifically, but we've now got more holes to fill.
2) We have yet to bring in anyone new in FA. I wasn't really expecting much, but it seems that there's nothing but an outflow of players. I'd like to see someone brought in just to make it seem like this team has a clue in what direction it wants to go. Sitting by mostly passively during FA makes it seem like there's no real direction.
3) Meanwhile, I feel like the draft options are getting worse and worse. Rather than one of the QBs like Bridgewater or Manziel establishing himself as a clear number 1 option, they have kind of faded in the discussion. Now in the discussions we get players like Clowney (who I think of mainly as a guy who has talent but was easily shut down, and seemed to take plenty of plays off), or Bortles (not impressive to me as a player, and not sure why he's so high in the discusison now), or Mack (I don't like the idea of having to go LB at #1 overall, since it seems you can often get good LBs later on...). While I used to be pumped up about the #1 overall pick, I'm now finding I hope we trade out or something, since no one strikes me as someone worthy of the pick.
4) I don't really care whether our coaching staff is super-talkative (in fact, probably better that they aren't), but I'd like some reassurance that they have some direction they are heading in. I wasn't that excited about O'Brien, but I know we needed a change, and I'm happy to give him a chance. But, I'd like to know something about his plans in a broad sense - i.e. does he plan to blow up the old team, or does he think this one just nees a few key parts, or what. Part of my concern here is that I felt like the team needed fixing, but it seems the staff might be treating it as a complete rebuild or something.
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Old 03-15-2014   #69
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Default Re: Getting depressed about our direction

Woh there hoss, it's a little early for depression to set in. Let's give the régime change a tad longer. We are supposed to have a super duper head coach and a certified DC and some good draft picks.
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Old 03-15-2014   #70
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by djohn2oo8 View Post
What happened when the running game wasn't working? Who was open then?
The same people.

Quote:
It was amazing how the line went from protecting Schaub to not protecting Keenum.
It's amazing because it didn't happen. The difference was Schaub was better at seeing the D and getting rid of the ball.

Quote:
Kubiak could not adjust, or did not to when they blitzed Keenum, which made them predictable. First play of every single game was playaction, don't tell me that the offense wasn't predictable.
Well since not even close to the first play of every game was playaction apparently the playcalling wasn't predictable even with hindsight. The #2 GM in the league, #1 actual GM since they stuck Belichick in #1 just disagreed with you and hired Kubiak who had other suitors as well. The league disagrees with you.
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Old 03-15-2014   #71
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Default Re: Getting depressed about our direction

I think we are in a total rebuild mode. I believe O'Brien will trade our first and second for multiple picks a la the Pats. Maybe we will be able to compete in a couple of years. Just my opinion.
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Old 03-15-2014   #72
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
...It's amazing because it didn't happen. The difference was Schaub was better at seeing the D and getting rid of the ball...
I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm remembering wrong, but Kubiak had Keenum working from under center (this was after he came back from his mini-stroke) and Keenum was under constant pressure from the blitz. When Kubiak made the decision to replace Keenum and brought Schaub back in, he had Schaub working from the pistol or shotgun formation, which has an advantage in reacting to the blitz.
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Old 03-15-2014   #73
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by Number19 View Post
I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm remembering wrong, but Kubiak had Keenum working from under center (this was after he came back from his mini-stroke) and Keenum was under constant pressure from the blitz. When Kubiak made the decision to replace Keenum and brought Schaub back in, he had Schaub working from the pistol or shotgun formation, which has an advantage in reacting to the blitz.
Schaub was under center for 39.7% of attempts.
Keenum was under center for 24.5% of attempts.
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Old 03-15-2014   #74
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

I don't think we're rebuilding. Most people should realize that last year's failures were pretty flukey. We had terrible coaching and QB/OL play but lost so many games by 7 or less. Losing close games is mostly a preparation/execution issue, and execution can be fixed with new coaching. Well, hopefully. Not to mention all the injuries again. Depth was terrible, and if you're hell-bent on three straight years of catastrophic injuries, you better ****ing have good depth.

The team made the playoffs two years straight before then. I don't think the bottom fell out just like that and oh no, we just have to rebuild again. That just makes no sense. I think it was just fluke failure. Atlanta too.

Both teams will be fine. I expect us to contend for the South if we can find some semblance of luck in the health department.
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Old 03-15-2014   #75
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
We'll see.
The offense will be brand new and the guys installing and implementing it are mostly new to the NFL.

The defensive side has some history and with the retention of Kollar, a little bit of continuity.

Personally, I don't think Rick Smith actually picked the players that were drafted. He and his scouting team complied a list of prospects based on what he knew Kubiak and Wade wanted to execute the offense and defense, respectively. Then Wade and Gary ranked those players from "most desired" to "he'll do" and Smith made picks accordingly.

To expect the scouting staff and Rick Smith to know what kind of players O'Brien and Crennel want to make their offense/defense be successful without ever seeing it is hopeful at best, IMO.

So this year is shaky because the parts of the team responsible for selecting all the right players for the respective schemes are just getting to know each other.

Side Note:
For those who wonder why Rick Smith is still here, ask yourself who would O'Brien have wanted in that job? Unless you can point to someone - with GM experience - who's worked with O'Brien and knows what he looks for in players, then there's no advantage to firing Rick Smith.
Flame away.
Big hope is that at the end of the day for me that Gary was pulling the strings in the draft and scouting. Hopefully, with Gary gone the draft, his now removed scout team, and the staff developing picks will be better. We won't ve able to tell this year obviously.

I don't think O'Brien wanted nor deserved a gm\coach position That's not even what I'm implying. Big question is who had the ultimate call on picks and if Rick pinned that bad history on Gary.

Not sure what you mean in not saying there's an advantage with someone at management level who knows what O'Brien is looking for vs Smith. Either way we're not sure who works better with who, but we do know Smith has had questionable drafts. Just matters on who gets credit or blame.

Either way, I'd hope Smith understands him keeping his job moving forward is DIRECTLY correlated to OB's success. Not a good start to the off season for a team coming off a 2-14 season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRingo View Post
I think we are in a total rebuild mode. I believe O'Brien will trade our first and second for multiple picks a la the Pats. Maybe we will be able to compete in a couple of years. Just my opinion.
Any hope we had of trading out of 1st pick almost rested solely on Clowney blowing the combine out of water. Didn't happen. There's pretty much no way the FO is moving out of 1.1. However, there's going to likely be great value at 2.1.
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Old 03-15-2014   #76
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Schaub was under center for 39.7% of attempts.
Keenum was under center for 24.5% of attempts.
Are these numbers for the whole season? I would like to see the numbers for just the last four games of the season - the last two games started by Keenum and the final two games of the season started by Schaub.

Keenum's last games was when I asked myself the question, why wasn't Keenum operating out of the shotgun more to counter the blitz; this was also when I had the thought that it seemed Keenum was playing a different game from his earlier ones.

And when Schaub started the final two games was when I thought I noticed he was operating almost exclusively from the shotgun. Certainly this was true for the several consecutive series when this thought hit me.

(edit) It just now occurred to me that these four games were after Kubiak was fired. I wish I had recorded these games.
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Old 03-15-2014   #77
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
...Personally, I don't think Rick Smith actually picked the players that were drafted. He and his scouting team complied a list of prospects based on what he knew Kubiak and Wade wanted to execute the offense and defense, respectively. Then Wade and Gary ranked those players from "most desired" to "he'll do" and Smith made picks accordingly....
I just now noticed this little bit of a news item from November:
Quote:
...Kubiak isn't expected to work a full day after suffering a mini-stroke on Nov. 3, but Rapoport noted Sunday that the longtime coach is anxious to get back to business amid whispers that Houston's front office is "a bit frustrated" with Kubiak and his assistants.

That frustration channels from the coaching staff holding too much sway over the draft process ...
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...ing-ministroke
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Old 03-15-2014   #78
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
Not sure what you mean in not saying there's an advantage with someone at management level who knows what O'Brien is looking for vs Smith.
Maybe I phrased it poorly but that's exactly what I meant. There would have been a definite advantage to hiring a new GM if he had previously worked with O'Brien to know what sort of players he (O'Brien) liked. My guess is that there wasn't a guy with that background available when they were looking. So Rick Smith got to stay.
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Old 03-15-2014   #79
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

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Are these numbers for the whole season?
The stats were overall and my statement was overall. I'll go further though and say Brown and Brooks improved as the season went on so Keenum had better protection from them. In any event, I think the assertion the OL protected Schaub better is incorrect.

In Keenum's first start he was sacked 5 times.

In the two split games I am not sure of the point because Schaub came in to run a faster paced offense to catch up so yes he was in shotgun almost the whole time but then again the D had their ears pinned back as well. But anyway...

Jaguars Keenum shotgun 21/29 72.5% sacked 2, Schaub sacked 0.
Oakland Keenum shotgun 18/24 75% sacked 1, Schaub sacked 2.
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Old 03-15-2014   #80
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Default Re: Are we rebuilding?

Cap Hell
  1. $15.6M . Andre Johnson
  2. $14.4M . Matt Schaub
  3. $11.2M . Johnathan Joseph
  4. $8.50M . Duane Brown
  5. $8.50M . Arian Foster
  6. $7.00M . Chris Myers
  7. $6.00M . Danieal Manning
  8. $5.30M . Brian Cushing
  9. $4.30M . Kareem Jackson
  10. $3.60M . Jj Watt
$84.4M for ten players. That's why we're in cap hell. We've got good players & we pay them like they're good players. We may not like them any more, but at one time... We think/thought Andre was/is the best WR in the league. We believe(d) Duane Brown was/is among the best LTs in the league. At one time, we thought it was imperative that we lock Cushing up long term. We were ecstatic when Rick Smith reached out into FA & plucked Jjo & DMann off the market.

... & we want to make Jj Watt the highest paid defensive player in the league.

We've got $49M (or so) to sign the other 43 players that make up the roster.
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