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Old 03-14-2014   #21
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Default Re: Texans Defense (how far behind are we?)

2013 Seahawks had one the top 5 (imo) at least top 10 overall single season defensive performances in NFL history. the seahawks lapped every team in performance, so nobody stacks up to them. this is just listing out what should be pretty obvious.
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Old 03-14-2014   #22
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Default Re: Texans Defense (how far behind are we?)

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
I'm thinking two things here: one we're going to have to have another terrible year to finally let go Smith or that Cubism was pulling the lion's share of strings in bad calls.

Ultimately, hoping the later just so we don't have to suffer another terrible season. Might be worth it though for a FO clean slate.
Sure Cubism was extremely influential back in the 20th century, but to claim that a 100 year old art style is influencing football decisions today is a bit extreme. It certainly influences art today, but that's some Butterfly Effect theory right there.
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Old 03-14-2014   #23
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Default Re: Texans Defense (how far behind are we?)

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
I'm thinking two things here: one we're going to have to have another terrible year to finally let go Smith or that Kubiak was pulling the lion's share of strings in bad calls.

Ultimately, hoping the later just so we don't have to suffer another terrible season. Might be worth it though for a FO clean slate.
I am not sure who sold Uncle Bob on the idea that the Texans were just a few players away from a SB, but I think it was clear after last season that was not the case. If they were going to take out the garbage, they should have taken it all out, and that means Smith too. Seems to me like the bird in McNair's ear was Smith, and that is why he is still here.
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Old 03-14-2014   #24
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Default Re: Texans Defense (how far behind are we?)

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
Look at our draft last year guys:

1. DeAndre Hopkins (WR--Clemson)
2. D.J. Swearinger (S--South Carolina)
3. Brennan Williams (OT--North Carolina)
3. Sam Montgomery (OLB/DE--LSU)
4. Trevardo Williams (LB/DE--UConn)
6. David Quessenberry (OT/OG--San Jose State)
6. Alan Bonner (WR--Jacksonville State)
6. Chris Jones (DT--Bowling Green State)
6. Ryan Griffin (TE--UConn)

Is this not the least productive draft class, in their first year, you have ever seen?
No.

It's not even the least productive draft class in Texan's history.

There are three starters in that draft class: Hopkins, Swearinger... and Chris Jones (who started 12 games and had 6 sacks for the Patriots after we cut him.)

Hopkins had 52 receptions, 802 yards, and 2 TD. That's pretty good. Ryan Griffin played pretty well and there's hope for him for the future. There are still some guys in that draft class who could perform for us: Quessenberry, Trevardo Williams, Bonner.

Now, think about the 2005 draft.

16. Travis Johnson
73. Vernand Morency
114. Jerome Mathis
151. Drew Hodgdon
188. C. C. Brown
227. Kenneth Pettway

Travis Johnson gave us some snaps and Jerome Mathis made some plays on ST. But that's just some fail right there.

Not saying that Rick Smith is doing a great job. But he has drafted a couple of DROY and a DPOY. Let's see what he can do without Kubiak and let's not totally give up on that draft class just yet.
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Old 03-14-2014   #25
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Default Re: Texans Defense (how far behind are we?)

6th Rounder DT Chris Jones did not make the roster. He then moved to Patriots as a starter and played 13 games and had 6 sacks, highest amongst all rookies. That shows how bad our coaching staff was. They cant make the most out of the players.

Also, we have 4 players from last years draft returning from IR. Lets see what they do this year.

3. Brennan Williams (OT--North Carolina)
4. Trevardo Williams (LB/DE--UConn)
6. David Quessenberry (OT/OG--San Jose State)
6. Alan Bonner (WR--Jacksonville State)
and UDFA WR Lemon too
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Old 03-14-2014   #26
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Default Re: Texans Defense (how far behind are we?)

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6th Rounder DT Chris Jones did not make the roster. He then moved to Patriots as a starter and played 13 games and had 6 sacks, highest amongst all rookies. That shows how bad our coaching staff was. They cant make the most out of the players.
IIRC, we tried to stash Jones on the Practice Squad and Tampa Bay signed him. The last roster spot was between Montgomery and Jones and we were scared someone wold sign Montgomery if we PS'ed him so Jones got the designation.

That might have been the most productive late round in the draft for any one team in recent memory. Chris Jones, Ryan Griffin, and David Quessenberry all in the 6th round. Those guys all have serious potential.
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Old 03-14-2014   #27
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Default Re: Texans Defense (how far behind are we?)

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IIRC, we tried to stash Jones on the Practice Squad and Tampa Bay signed him.
Tampa Bay signed him, cut him, then he was signed by the Pats and became a starter when Wilfork (and maybe some others) went down.
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Old 03-14-2014   #28
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Default Re: Texans Defense (how far behind are we?)

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Old 03-14-2014   #29
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Default Re: Texans Defense (how far behind are we?)

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
No.

It's not even the least productive draft class in Texan's history.

There are three starters in that draft class: Hopkins, Swearinger... and Chris Jones (who started 12 games and had 6 sacks for the Patriots after we cut him.)

Hopkins had 52 receptions, 802 yards, and 2 TD. That's pretty good. Ryan Griffin played pretty well and there's hope for him for the future. There are still some guys in that draft class who could perform for us: Quessenberry, Trevardo Williams, Bonner.

Not saying that Rick Smith is doing a great job. But he has drafted a couple of DROY and a DPOY. Let's see what he can do without Kubiak and let's not totally give up on that draft class just yet.
I'll be looking to see how quickly we get production from our future later picks, the guys we take between rounds 3, 4, 5, & 6. It just doesn't make sense that the rest of the league gets more production out of the guys taken in those rounds than we do... a lot faster.

Of course, this is just the feeling that I get from my very Texans-centric view. But the more I think about it, the more I believe our front office wasn't as cohesive a unit as I thought.
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Old 03-14-2014   #30
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Default Re: Texans Defense (how far behind are we?)

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But the more I think about it, the more I believe our front office wasn't as cohesive a unit as I thought.
I think when they started losing fingers started being pointed.

I definitely think they were split on many things. They are humans. That's natural. They will have different opinions on how to be successful.

But I think more than anything, it wasn't that Kubiak didn't want certain players and Rick forced them on him, but Kubiak was just slow reacting. Within games, over the course of the season, from year to year...I think Kubiak was far too slow reacting.

Seemed like things had to be clearly apparent before he'd address it. And even then it's like he'd hold on to some things with the stubbornness of a boulder. He had his comfort zone and he was comfortable with it.
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Old 03-14-2014   #31
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Default Re: Texans Defense (how far behind are we?)

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I think when they started losing fingers started being pointed.

I definitely think they were split on many things. They are humans. That's natural. They will have different opinions on how to be successful.

But I think more than anything, it wasn't that Kubiak didn't want certain players and Rick forced them on him, but Kubiak was just slow reacting. Within games, over the course of the season, from year to year...I think Kubiak was far too slow reacting.

Seemed like things had to be clearly apparent before he'd address it. And even then it's like he'd hold on to some things with the stubbornness of a boulder. He had his comfort zone and he was comfortable with it.
Where do you get this? Hasn't all the talk been about the coaches had too much control?
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Old 03-14-2014   #32
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Default Re: Texans Defense (how far behind are we?)

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I'll be looking to see how quickly we get production from our future later picks, the guys we take between rounds 3, 4, 5, & 6. It just doesn't make sense that the rest of the league gets more production out of the guys taken in those rounds than we do... a lot faster.

Of course, this is just the feeling that I get from my very Texans-centric view. But the more I think about it, the more I believe our front office wasn't as cohesive a unit as I thought.
And I think that's the issue. You're judging the Texans against what you WANT to happen and what you HOPE will happen. The rest of the league isn't getting this huge production out of the people picked in that range. Sure, you will find guys that do produce that are picked in that range but no matter what team you choose, you can find years where the entire draft was a fail.

The Patriots are a great team, but they had this draft in 2008:
10 - Jerod Mayo (granted a pro bowler)
62 - Terrence Wheatley (12 games)
78 - Shawn Crable (6 games)
94 - Kevin O'Connell (2 games)
129 - Jonathan Wilhite (53 games, started 15 games but a backup)
153 - Matt Slater (87 games, started 3 games in 2011, only has 46 passes caught in his career and they were all in 2011)
197 - Bo Ruud (0 games)


Pick a team and you'll find that there's not as much success drafting as you might suspect.

We've been really lucky with some of the UDFAs and late round production that we've gotten.
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Old 03-14-2014   #33
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Default Re: Texans Defense (how far behind are we?)

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Where do you get this? Hasn't all the talk been about the coaches had too much control?
People are creating their own plots. Watch 6 mos. from now they will have become fact.
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Old 03-14-2014   #34
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Default Re: Texans Defense (how far behind are we?)

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I am not sure who sold Uncle Bob on the idea that the Texans were just a few players away from a SB, but I think it was clear after last season that was not the case. If they were going to take out the garbage, they should have taken it all out, and that means Smith too. Seems to me like the bird in McNair's ear was Smith, and that is why he is still here.
Lets not re-write history, it wasn't just "someone" selling Uncle Bob on the Texans going into last season as a superbowl contender. It was the players, the fans, the media, other coaches, etc that thought that.
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Old 03-14-2014   #35
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Default Re: Texans Defense (how far behind are we?)

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People are creating their own plots. Watch 6 mos. from now they will have become fact.

If we don't draft an OG, ,or OT in the first three rounds, & we start the season with Ben Jones filling our need at OG & Quessenberry filling our need at RT.... and Brandon Harris is our starting Nickel... & playing very well at that... I know what I'll be saying.
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Old 03-14-2014   #36
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Default Re: Texans Defense (how far behind are we?)

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Lets not re-write history, it wasn't just "someone" selling Uncle Bob on the Texans going into last season as a superbowl contender. It was the players, the fans, the media, other coaches, etc that thought that.
I thought that.
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Old 03-14-2014   #37
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Default Re: Texans Defense (how far behind are we?)

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Lets not re-write history, it wasn't just "someone" selling Uncle Bob on the Texans going into last season as a superbowl contender. It was the players, the fans, the media, other coaches, etc that thought that.
I think he was talking about McNairs comments right after the season that we were close, not prior to last season.
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