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Old 03-13-2014   #21
IDEXAN
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (*UPDATE/SIGNED 03/13/14*)

Thoughts from others if Graham is "just a guy", or something more than that ?
My own opinion is that he's got good hands, and is a better blocker than he's given credit for, but he is slow and smallish size wise.
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Old 03-13-2014   #22
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (*UPDATE/SIGNED 03/13/14*)

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Texans TE Garrett Graham says new coach Bill O'Brien plans to use him as a "move tight end, an H-back."
Looks like Graham will play the Hernandez role while Griffin plays the Gronkowski position. I definitely like Graham as more of an H-Back than an in-line TE, but he still lacks the athleticism to create mismatches.

I actually like Griffin in the Gronk role, but we really need depth at TE regardless.
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Old 03-13-2014   #23
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (*UPDATE/SIGNED 03/13/14*)

Everyone dogging on Graham because Roto's idiot board of advisers are doing it should relax. Roto's news breaking is legit and can't be denied, but their "analysts" are wrong just as much as they are right.

Graham is pretty OK, but he's not terrible like others, especially Roto, are making him out to be. He's a solid TE and is worth the price he is paid. He's not a game changer, but he is solid.

Ryan Griffin is NOT better or more athletic than Graham, that is absolute hogwash.

Roto's latest entry is saying he pales in comparison to A Hernandez. Obviously he's not the same guy, but he's not this "overpaid" loser they are making out.

For comparison sake with regards to athleticism:

He's taller. Runs only 0.07 seconds slower 40 time than Hernandez (Graham did his in the slow combine though versus Florida pro day). And only a 0.17 second slower 3 cone drill. So his athleticism isn't this 75 YO man I'm reading about.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combin...Garrett-Graham

What he doesn't do well, IMO, is create enough seperation in his routes to cleanly come up with the ball, but that's always been Owen Daniel's story as well post-ACL.
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Old 03-13-2014   #24
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (Of course he does, they always say t

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Originally Posted by bOODRO87 View Post
He contacted my place of work asking about a Wisconsin or Texans logo on our product. This was last week so I think he's staying.
Very saucy inside information. If you post something like this again I will actually pay it attention next time.
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Old 03-13-2014   #25
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (*UPDATE/SIGNED 03/13/14*)

We had serious depth issues at TE, so this move makes sense. Graham is worth the contract given, simple as that.
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Old 03-13-2014   #26
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (Of course he does, they always say t

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
Very saucy inside information. If you post something like this again I will actually pay it attention next time.
Yup, a Seahawk fan in Customer Service called me over. "Look who wants a custom logo cooler." Ok, I'll let you guys in on something with Garrett. He uses Gmail.. Coincidence? I think not.
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Old 03-13-2014   #27
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (*UPDATE/SIGNED 03/13/14*)

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post

Graham is pretty OK, but he's not terrible like others, especially Roto, are making him out to be. He's a solid TE and is worth the price he is paid. He's not a game changer, but he is solid.
I don't understand all this, "TE can't run block" talk. I think that's his strong suit. Not worth a dang protecting the QB & avg as a receiver. But he's an above average run blocker.
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Old 03-13-2014   #28
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (*UPDATE/SIGNED 03/13/14*)

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I don't understand all this, "TE can't run block" talk. I think that's his strong suit. Not worth a dang protecting the QB & avg as a receiver. But he's an above average run blocker.
Kubes?
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Old 03-13-2014   #29
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (*UPDATE/SIGNED 03/13/14*)

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
Everyone dogging on Graham because Roto's idiot board of advisers are doing it should relax. Roto's news breaking is legit and can't be denied, but their "analysts" are wrong just as much as they are right.

Graham is pretty OK, but he's not terrible like others, especially Roto, are making him out to be. He's a solid TE and is worth the price he is paid. He's not a game changer, but he is solid.

Ryan Griffin is NOT better or more athletic than Graham, that is absolute hogwash.

Roto's latest entry is saying he pales in comparison to A Hernandez. Obviously he's not the same guy, but he's not this "overpaid" loser they are making out.

For comparison sake with regards to athleticism:

He's taller. Runs only 0.07 seconds slower 40 time than Hernandez (Graham did his in the slow combine though versus Florida pro day). And only a 0.17 second slower 3 cone drill. So his athleticism isn't this 75 YO man I'm reading about.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combin...Garrett-Graham

What he doesn't do well, IMO, is create enough seperation in his routes to cleanly come up with the ball, but that's always been Owen Daniel's story as well post-ACL.
Graham last year wasn't even close to OK. Add Profootballfocus to the negative evaluations.

Here's their rankings of 2014 Free Agent Tight Ends...........35 out of 38.

When Profootballfocus presented their end of 2013 year rankings for ALL TEs.......Graham was almost at the very bottom of the list. When Football Outsiders presented their numbers in relationship to the passing game, he was next to dead last.

That's far from OK in my book. That down right stinks. And short of total turn around in a quasi new position, I will remain extremely skeptical re. his value to this team. I'm just wondering how valuable the team really thinks he is. Will be interesting to see how much guaranteed money is in his contract.
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Old 03-13-2014   #30
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (*UPDATE/SIGNED 03/13/14*)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Graham last year wasn't even close to OK. Add Profootballfocus to the negative evaluations.

Here's their rankings of 2014 Free Agent Tight Ends...........35 out of 38.

When Profootballfocus presented their end of 2013 year rankings for ALL TEs.......Graham was almost at the very bottom of the list. When Football Outsiders presented their numbers in relationship to the passing game, he was next to dead last.

That's far from OK in my book. That down right stinks. And short of total turn around in a quasi new position, I will remain extremely skeptical re. his value to this team. I'm just wondering how valuable the team really thinks he is. Will be interesting to see how much guaranteed money is in his contract.
I respect PFF so I gotta hear you out on this, but did you see this list bro? You're telling me these guys are all better? Many of these guys will be lucky to be in the NFL this year. This list is absolutely wack.

What the hell are the Panthers gonna do this year if Ben Hartsock walks??? How will they replace his 2 catches for 30 yards playing 30% of the offensive snaps this year??! That playoff run was short lived.



I like Football Outsiders too, but c'mon bro... how is your "adjusted" yards with their advanced stats gonna be LESS yards than he actually got on the football field? "I know he had like 550 yards in 13 games played, but I'm gonna create a metric that credits you with only 300." What??

I hear you on every subject except this, I gotta disagree with you here.
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Old 03-13-2014   #31
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (*UPDATE/SIGNED 03/13/14*)

I was a big fan of Graham in college but I've been disappointed in him. He's average to below average in every category. I thought Griffin was a lot better last year and he's barely scratched the surface.

Graham fits as the move TE but I wouldn't be surprised if we picked up another one somewhere. Example: draft A.C. Leonard in the 5th and play him off the bench behind Graham. Cut Graham next year and work Leonard into a starting role.
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Old 03-13-2014   #32
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (*UPDATE/SIGNED 03/13/14*)

Not thrilled with this contract to be honest unless it's structured with an easier cap hit for bring cut next year. It's starter money, but how quality of a starter is he?

I mean we got cap relief on cutting Daniel, but turn around and give out this contract? Its an upgrade at paying TE, but not much. How much of a real upgrade on the field? Not much really over OD.

More I think bout it, more disappointed I become with this signing.
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Old 03-13-2014   #33
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (Of course he does, they always say t

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
Do yall think we still go after a TE in the draft now that we have resigned him or do you think this ends that talk of ASJ or Jace Amaro entirely?
With this signing I think if we take a TE it will be late, 5-7 round range. Graham's contract is essentially a 1 yr. deal which is a little high, but we've got bigger things to worry about than 3rd string TE.
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Old 03-13-2014   #34
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (Of course he does, they always say t

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Do yall think we still go after a TE in the draft now that we have resigned him or do you think this ends that talk of ASJ or Jace Amaro entirely?
It may not be as high a priority now with the signing of Graham but I'm pretty sure they will still draft one. Probably in the mid to later rounds like the 4th, 5th, or 6th.
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Old 03-13-2014   #35
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (*UPDATE/SIGNED 03/13/14*)

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Thoughts from others if Graham is "just a guy", or something more than that ?
My own opinion is that he's got good hands, and is a better blocker than he's given credit for, but he is slow and smallish size wise.
Graham was a poor blocker in the assignments he was given with Kubes, and that makes up the bulk of his poor overall rating.

As the "move" TE, his blocking assignments will be easier and he can showcase his pass-catching which he's above average in. GG doesn't quite have the quicks for the prototypical move TE to create the mismatch, but his drop rate is good. (As is Griffin's)

GG has the potential to do well in OB's schemes, imo, depending on the other offensive pieces we assemble. We know he's a worker.
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Old 03-13-2014   #36
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (*UPDATE/SIGNED 03/13/14*)

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Graham was a poor blocker in the assignments he was given with Kubes, and that makes up the bulk of his poor overall rating.

As the "move" TE, his blocking assignments will be easier and he can showcase his pass-catching which he's above average in. GG doesn't quite have the quicks for the prototypical move TE to create the mismatch, but his drop rate is good. (As is Griffin's)

GG has the potential to do well in OB's schemes, imo, depending on the other offensive pieces we assemble. We know he's a worker.
This.

This will be a different offense this year. No matter who is under center.

Graham should see more opportunities in space.
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Old 03-13-2014   #37
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (*UPDATE/SIGNED 03/13/14*)

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
Not thrilled with this contract to be honest unless it's structured with an easier cap hit for bring cut next year. It's starter money, but how quality of a starter is he?

I mean we got cap relief on cutting Daniel, but turn around and give out this contract? Its an upgrade at paying TE, but not much. How much of a real upgrade on the field? Not much really over OD.

More I think bout it, more disappointed I become with this signing.
He's not getting paid nearly as much as you are making it seem. 11.25 MM / 3 years is at the very bottom end of starter money in the NFL unless your starter is a rookie

http://overthecap.com/top-player-sal...hp?Position=TE

After this resigning I am done with wanting a late round TE. Rather gamble on late round Lineman and Linebackers. Linebackers generally make solid ST guys.

I'm tired of the mediocre TE game and will be P'd if we waste another late round pick on one. I either want a legit TE or none at all. Since it's been addressed in FA (resigning) I'd rather just wait until next year to address it.
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Old 03-13-2014   #38
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (*UPDATE/SIGNED 03/13/14*)

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
Do yall think we still go after a TE in the draft now that we have resigned him or do you think this ends that talk of ASJ or Jace Amaro entirely?
I don't know about a specific TE prospect, but I do think the Texans look at TE somewhere in the 3rd-5th rounds. Specifically, a guy who can play TE in a base formation.

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Graham costs less than Daniels and I suspect that the coaches expect Griffin to leap over him on the depth chart anyway. They'll go get another good prospect in the latter half of the draft and go from there. That's what I think.
I think you're right about looking for another TE in the draft. I think the Griffin jocking on this board is over the top. Griffin has yet to become as good a TE as Graham. And we don't know if he ever will be.

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Graham last year wasn't even close to OK. Add Profootballfocus to the negative evaluations.

Here's their rankings of 2014 Free Agent Tight Ends...........35 out of 38.
I'm not going to jock Graham. Like most of the Texans in 2013, he wasn't good. A 2-14 team will receive a ton of negative evaluations. But, he's also not the worst TE in the league. $4.5 million guaranteed sounds about right.
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Old 03-13-2014   #39
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (*UPDATE/SIGNED 03/13/14*)

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
I respect PFF so I gotta hear you out on this, but did you see this list bro? You're telling me these guys are all better? Many of these guys will be lucky to be in the NFL this year. This list is absolutely wack.

What the hell are the Panthers gonna do this year if Ben Hartsock walks??? How will they replace his 2 catches for 30 yards playing 30% of the offensive snaps this year??! That playoff run was short lived.



I like Football Outsiders too, but c'mon bro... how is your "adjusted" yards with their advanced stats gonna be LESS yards than he actually got on the football field? "I know he had like 550 yards in 13 games played, but I'm gonna create a metric that credits you with only 300." What??

I hear you on every subject except this, I gotta disagree with you here.
There are 3 parts to a TE's game. Catching the ball/ stretching the seam and catching ball/Blocking. These are all very important and you rarely find a TE that is good at all 3. If you find one they are usually HOF caliber players. (John Mackey/Charlie Sanders/Kellen Winslow etc.... Gronk/Olsen/Whitten/Gonzales are the best all around TE's right now. Then you have the best TE's at doing 2 things (Catching/stretching the seam but are adequate blockers. (J.Graham/Jared Cook/Hernandez etc...) These guys are very invaluable also. Then you've got the type TE's that are blockers and occasionally catch the ball. Anthony Fasano/Kleinsasser/Pettigrew etc.... these guys are very valuable because they help you pick up 3rd and 1's that help keep drives alive.

Tell me which of these areas do you think Graham stands out? To be above avg you need to standout in 1 area. Which is why TE's like Hartsock have long NFL careers and are rated higher than TE's like G. Graham. If he caught 550 yds worth of balls it appears that PFF has downgraded G.Grahams blocking to the tune of about 200 yds so that's how they came up with the lesser yds than G.Graham actually caught.

As far as re-signing Graham, I would've rather that precious cap $$$$ be spent on a RT/NT/S/ILB/CB. You can easily find talents of Grahams caliber in rds 5-7. A.C.Leonard/Lyerla/Gilmore/Najvar. So this signing reeks of the same F.O. philosophy that has lead to 2-14. IMHO (Paying avg/to below avg homegrown players) Instead of pooling your $$$$ and bringing in one above avg starter the Texans seem to think 2 avg starters are better than 1 above avg starter and bringing in a vet min/rookie late rd guy. You know kind of like Denver (J.Thomas/Jordan Reed/Scott Chandler etc....

Doesn't look like the Texans F.O. learned much from last seasons disaster.
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Old 03-14-2014   #40
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Default Re: Garrett Graham wants to remain with Texans: (*UPDATE/SIGNED 03/13/14*)

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
There are 3 parts to a TE's game.
You can 'educate' me on football all day, but at the end of the day money talks and chumps walk.

Hartsock has been released more times than any player I've ever graded #2 at their respective position (Free Agency list or not). His career earnings are also less than what Graham just pulled in this one contract.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Hartsock

I'm not sitting here saying G Graham is gonna fly us to the moon like Sampson or anything like that, I'm just saying he doesn't suck as bad as many are making him out to be and he is ABSOLUTELY more valuable to a football team than Ben Hartsock.

Did I want him resigned though? No. I wanted to draft Jace or ASJ w/ 2.01, but I guess that's done.
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