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Old 01-05-2014   #1
kingtexan
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Default 2014 QB Class Not That Great

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/2014-n...233639213.html

Quote:
Back in October, everyone was excited about the supposedly deep quarterback class in the 2014 NFL Draft.

One anonymous NFL scout told SI's Peter King, "It would not surprise me when we make our board if we have nine quarterbacks with first-round grades. Not at all. Obviously, that depends on which underclassmen declare, and you hear things out there. But I could see it."

Nine first-round quality quarterbacks! The most ever taken in the first round is six. Two were taken in the top-32 last year.

But things have changed dramatically in the last three months. In the latest expert consensus ranking of the 32 best prospects in the draft, there are only four quarterbacks.

So what happened? How does one of the most hyped QB classes ever fall apart before it even materializes?

In short, a few guys returned to school, a few guys got hurt, and a few guys underperformed a bit.
Decent commentary on where we are with the QB's.

Interesting comment about one source saying Bridgewater only deserved a 2nd round grade.
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Old 01-05-2014   #2
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

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Teddy Bridgewater, who was always the consensus No. 1 offensive player in the draft, has been getting picked apart in the last few weeks. He had a good but not crazy-good season for a Louisville team that wasn't as strong as expected. He slipped from No. 2 to No. 4 in our expert consensus rankings in the last three months. One scout even called him a "second-round pick" last week.
LOL.

Really shows how good Bridgewater is when you can look at what he's done and say to yourself that he hasn't met expectations.

Still have yet to see any real criticism against him that doesn't involve just a gut feeling. If you don't like him, fine by me. But I'm getting the feeling that the people who don't like him don't even know why.
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Old 01-05-2014   #3
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
LOL.

Really shows how good Bridgewater is when you can look at what he's done and say to yourself that he hasn't met expectations.

Still have yet to see any real criticism against him that doesn't involve just a gut feeling. If you don't like him, fine by me. But I'm getting the feeling that the people who don't like him don't even know why.
Yeah, basically all the criticism is around 2 things:

1. Small and thin. Well 6 3 or 6 2, that`s still taller than Wilson or Brees and not really all that small - and a NFL conditioning program should help that 21 year old kid to fill out his body.

2. Subpar competition. Nothing he could do about that, but he excelled in big games against good competition.

If he shows up at the combine, proves he can do all the throws I am sure he will cement his status as number 1 QB this draft. He will definetly interview well...
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Old 01-05-2014   #4
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

That's just silly, 9 first round graded QBs.

The obfuscation begins -- everything said between now and the draft is strategy.
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Old 01-05-2014   #5
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

There's no way they can all get picked, which is more of a reason to consider grabbing one in the second and trading down/grabbing Clowney or Barr.
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Old 01-05-2014   #6
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
LOL.

Really shows how good Bridgewater is when you can look at what he's done and say to yourself that he hasn't met expectations.

Still have yet to see any real criticism against him that doesn't involve just a gut feeling. If you don't like him, fine by me. But I'm getting the feeling that the people who don't like him don't even know why.
Because he's fundamentally sound like Tim Duncan. Good,not great athlete. Good,not great arm. Good mobility, Great mobility,poise,pocket presence and will grade off the charts on the chalkboards.
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Old 01-05-2014   #7
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

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Originally Posted by bhsman View Post
There's no way they can all get picked, which is more of a reason to consider grabbing one in the second and trading down/grabbing Clowney or Barr.
On it's face that sounds like a good strategy, but it's doubtful even half of these guys pan out.
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Old 01-06-2014   #8
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Because he's fundamentally sound like Tim Duncan. Good,not great athlete. Good,not great arm. Good mobility, Great mobility,poise,pocket presence and will grade off the charts on the chalkboards.
Wouldn't want a Tim Duncan caliber player?

As far as the QB class goes, we only need one great one, all the better for us if the rest suck.
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Old 01-06-2014   #9
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
LOL.

Really shows how good Bridgewater is when you can look at what he's done and say to yourself that he hasn't met expectations.

Still have yet to see any real criticism against him that doesn't involve just a gut feeling. If you don't like him, fine by me. But I'm getting the feeling that the people who don't like him don't even know why.
Then you've missed some of my posts - These are only partial quotes , to take them in context you probably have to go back to the conversation's they come from.


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Level of competition isn't the only questionmark for Bridgewater , his mechanics may be the bigger question.
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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post

No one else has separated themselves yet - tho its early pre combine.

Mariota is staying in school , Johnny Football is difficult to forecast as an NFL talent , Bridgewater played against a bunch of scrubs and has poor mechanics .... Mettenberger & Murray have injury questions and McCarron is difficult at best to diagnose .... then again he could be this drafts Aaron Rogers.
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No , there are no character concerns .... I don't question his arm strength either. He has a plenty strong enough arm. The only question I have is about his mechanics and accuracy when he is forced to put velocity on the ball , which he will in the NFL.
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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
The kid comes with no character concerns , has size , speed , arm , accuracy ... pretty much the total package other than the level of competition and his flawed mechanics.

You might have to sit him for a year but you do have the potential of a probowl caliber QB for the next decade if he does reach that potential.
If not , we'll do it again in a couple years .... with a new coach.


If you don't have a franchise QB , go get one.

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My issue with TB is his mechanics and slow / long release / delivery. He'll have to work on his mechanics to make it in the NFL.


His pocket awareness is one of the things I really do like about him ... along with the physical traits.

If he can improve his mechanics he has a chance to be really special. If not , he'll look a lot like the QB's who have player for the Texans this season.


I do think he's a better overall prospect than Manziel .... but that dude has special ability in the way he escapes pressure and makes teams pay for that pressure. If his game translates to the NFL (which I question) he will be difficult to defend .... He's a better passer than Vick or RG3 IMO with just as much ability to run.
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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post

What Im not sold on is level of competition , the mental part of the game (reading defenses , protections and others) as well as mechanics.
I really like how he moves around in the pocket ... kinda reminds me a bit of Brady there. But you do have to factor in the level of competition. His internal clock will have to speed up in the NFL.

No doubt about his success being a joint effort. The first thing they have to do is shorten that release and get him to keep the ball up high , ready to come out quickly.
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I guess my biggest issue with Bridgewater is his throwing mechanics , I see a rather long wind up with a slow release .... and he holds the ball somewhat low at times. Not as exaggerated as Tebow but a slow release none the less.

He can get away with that in college especially the level of competition he's faced on a regular basis but that dog wont hunt in the NFL. Any team that drafts him is going to have to clean up his mechanics ....

He definitely has a lot of tools to work with ... but he's got a lot of work to do to get to an NFL level.
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Originally Posted by powda View Post
Initial thoughts after watching limited film


Good athlete. Quick feet. I see a stronger then average arm ... not great but better then average. Good mobility while maintaining a pass first mindset and keeping his eyes down field. Stonger then his frame suggest. Solid poise...not elite. Sometimes sloppy mechanics. Ok accuracy. Has the arm downfield but placement seems general...lots of deep balls where defenders and safties have a chance at it...he's raw and could be molded with the right support system ...could be a franchise style qb but it won't happen overnight. Will need some time to grow. Playbook understanding appears average. Not as refined as sam Bradford comming out...not as gifted as rg3.
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Old 01-06-2014   #10
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
LOL.

Really shows how good Bridgewater is when you can look at what he's done and say to yourself that he hasn't met expectations.

Still have yet to see any real criticism against him that doesn't involve just a gut feeling. If you don't like him, fine by me. But I'm getting the feeling that the people who don't like him don't even know why.
Being undersized and having a low delivery point have nothing to do with a gut feeling and are valid concerns. If you haven't seen these criticisms, you weren't looking too hard.

I respect those who see these concerns and still believe his other skills more than compensate for the concerns, but to ignore them and say they do not exist would be foolish for our FO. But for fans who have no real responsibility, I'll let it pass as simple overboard enthusiasm.
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Old 01-06-2014   #11
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

@Corrosion

Strange, I regularly read he has great mechanics and a very quick release. Mechanic wise I only read about two concerns: 1. sometimes sloppy mechanics when throwing a deep ball. 2. Releasing the ball next to his ear and not above his head. Are those two things dealbreakers for you?

And trouble reading a defense? Iīve read several times that this is one of his biggest strengths. The coach has given him the keys to the offense in his sophomore year, making him basically the coordinator on the field. Presnap he is said to have Manning like football intelligence when dissecting a defense. After the snap he always has his eyes downfield and goes fast trough his progressions. What exactly are you worried about here?
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Old 01-06-2014   #12
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

Bridgewater is going to get picked apart like a chocolate brownie cake in Amsterdam from now until he gets drafted. I for one have made my decision on him, and hope we get him with our number one pick.
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Old 01-06-2014   #13
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

Quote:
Right now the top QBs in the 2014 Draft are Bridgewater, Johnny Manziel, Derek Carr, and Blake Bortles.
Certain posters are going tobe furious that Blake was listed last/worst. Prepare for the wrath...
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Old 01-06-2014   #14
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

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Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
Being undersized and having a low delivery point have nothing to do with a gut feeling and are valid concerns. If you haven't seen these criticisms, you weren't looking too hard.

I respect those who see these concerns and still believe his other skills more than compensate for the concerns, but to ignore them and say they do not exist would be foolish for our FO. But for fans who have no real responsibility, I'll let it pass as simple overboard enthusiasm.
I'm very well aware of what the concerns about Bridgewater are. He is skinny and he does have a low delivery point. I have acknowledged these and mentioned that neither of those concerns are a deal breaker to me.

My point was that on this board there are a number of people who don't like him, but don't seem to know why they don't like him. Thunderkyss and Corrosion have put forth valid criticism. Most everyone else has not.

For example, I disagree with Corrosion that Bridgewater needs work in the mental part of the game. I think he excels there. But I at least can respect the fact that Corrosion has reasoning behind his opinion and is not just blindly saying he doesn't like the guy.
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Old 01-06-2014   #15
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

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Bridgewater is going to get picked apart like a chocolate brownie cake in Amsterdam...
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Old 01-06-2014   #16
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/2014-n...233639213.html

Decent commentary on where we are with the QB's.
Quote:
Hundley isn't as polished as Mariota. He didn't play as well as many hoped this year, partly because of a bunch of injuries to his offensive line. But because of his size, speed, and raw talent, he could have still been one of the first QBs taken. According to Adam Schefter, two NFL teams had him as the best QB in the draft.
Quote:
CBS's draft writer Rob Rang says it could push him (Zach Mettenberger) into the second day of the draft, even though he's a first-round talent.
Quote:
Georgia's Aaron Murray also suffered a season-ending knee injury, and will face that stigma in the lead up to the draft.
Quote:
One scout even called him (Teddy Bridgewater) a "second-round pick" last week.

Interesting comment about one source saying Bridgewater only deserved a 2nd round grade.
If it is fact that two teams thought Hundley was the best QB in this class that should tell you it's not a one size fits all position. One team will value certain skills, others will value others. Coaching a pro style offense may not mean as much to a team, as long as you weren't running an option offense. Playing in the spread, throwing the ball, reading defenses... may be just as good, even better for some teams.

Zach got hurt, fell out of the first round. Murray got hurt, fell out of the first round. If Teddy got hurt, would he have fallen out of the first round? Why base a decision that will affect your team possibly for the next decade on the health of the guy in January?

And an ACL, not just because of what we've seen from Peterson, but they've come a long, long way in repairing ACLs. If running wasn't a big part of the QBs game... who cares?
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Old 01-06-2014   #17
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

Brett Hundley to stay at UCLA; LINK

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UCLA Bruins quarterback Brett Hundley is planning to return to school for his junior season, sources close to the situation said.

An announcement is expected this week.

While UCLA will be excited, there will be NFL teams that are disappointed. Two teams that scouted Hundley thought that if he left school early he might just be the top quarterback in the 2014 draft.
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Old 01-06-2014   #18
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

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Small and thin. Well 6 3 or 6 2, that`s still taller than Wilson or Brees and not really all that small - and a NFL conditioning program should help that 21 year old kid to fill out his body.
You'd think they said the same thing about a college football program.

The fact that it is a concern is not the problem. The fact that so many people are ignoring all of his issues should be.

As far as his size goes. If he in fact measures 6'3" (which I doubt) & weighs in over 210, I'll stop saying anything at all about his size. But if he doesn't.... I'm leaning towards pass.
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Old 01-06-2014   #19
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
I'm very well aware of what the concerns about Bridgewater are. He is skinny and he does have a low delivery point. I have acknowledged these and mentioned that neither of those concerns are a deal breaker to me.

My point was that on this board there are a number of people who don't like him, but don't seem to know why they don't like him. Thunderkyss and Corrosion have put forth valid criticism. Most everyone else has not.

For example, I disagree with Corrosion that Bridgewater needs work in the mental part of the game. I think he excels there. But I at least can respect the fact that Corrosion has reasoning behind his opinion and is not just blindly saying he doesn't like the guy.
Count me in the group who has told you.

Arm strength/level of competition/low delivery.

Sounds alot like the knocks on Carr minus the arm strength knock.

Tell me, how do you think TB's delivery compares to David Carr's?
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Old 01-06-2014   #20
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Default Re: 2014 QB Class Not That Great

Taking in to account that last year was a drought year for QBs, in conjunction with 8 of the first 11 teams picking in this draft are QB needy teams, there is a high probability that there could be a strong run on QBs early.

Teams needing a QB by draft order: #1 HOU: #2 STL: #3 JAX: #4 CLE: #5 OAK; #7 TPA; #8 MIN; #11 TEN - http://www.gbnreport.com/weeklydraftorder.html

STL could also go QB with the 2nd pick in the draft. Sam Bradford has not lived up to #1 billing and is coming off ACL surgery. Bradford has a cap hit of $17 mil + in 14'. The Rams could release Bradford and save $10 mil +, a June 1 cut = more than $13 Mil + in savings, more than enough to sign the #2 pick and still be able to save a considerable amount of money.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/st.-louis-rams/sam-bradford/

The Mettenberger and Murray injuries does NOT necessarily drop them in the draft. In fact their respective injuries could take pressure off the teams who draft them to start them immediately. With not enough QBs to go around to QB needy teams, those teams will not want to play the waiting game and miss out on a QB they desperately need. Aaron and Zach will be ready for OTAs but there is more than enough common sense reasoning to keep them on the bench for at least half the season. This works in the coach's and QB's favor, they have a built in excuse.
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