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Old 02-03-2014   #41
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

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Originally Posted by Norg View Post
over the past few years tho pocket passing QB's have been the only type of qb's winning SB


Manning
Eli
Eli
Big ben
Big ben
Flacco
Brady
brady
brady
Rodgers
Breees
Trent dilfer
brad Johnson

so Russell last name Wilson imma kinda glad he won now he threw a monkey wrench in that hole thing I think if u have a rookie game manger type qb and a super strong DEF that can work has well
Big Ben, & Brees aren't exactly drop back passers in my book & Aaron Rodgers stretches the definition as well.
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Old 02-03-2014   #42
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Big Ben, & Brees aren't exactly drop back passers in my book & Aaron Rodgers stretches the definition as well.
but there all looking for the pass esp Brees and Rodgers they see the field like Madden I bet like got a key on all 4 of there recivers and are looking to pass and if u notice when the do run around they only run like 6 yards horizontally to the left or right or back

why not fwd that would gain u yards right cus they don't care about petty 4 yard gains

and besides BIg ben brees and Rodgers of course they were running arounda little bit for them 4 or 7 years ago they were still pretty fresh and young

but after Major injuries to BIg ben and Rodgers do u see them running around a lot now ...??? NOPE and if they are running now it because there o lines suck and there running for there lives from DE and OLB

it was the same with Elway and Montana
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Old 02-03-2014   #43
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

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I definitely agree that their secondary's just sick. I don't think I've ever seen such a great combination come together like they've had. Granted, they get away with a boatload of holding, but they're dang good.

I'm not sold on Smith either, but with that said, the previous coaching staff was rumored to have had too much of an influence on the draft. Or at least that might be what he's selling to McNair. To me, he's merely a yes man.

Don't give up on Swearinger yet. I was one of his biggest critics, but he's young and talented. Hopefully he'll become more than just a box safety
Sherman 5th rd
Maxwell 6th rd
Browner UDFA
Chancellor 5th rd
Thomas 1st rd.

Texans under Rick/Gary/Wade

KJ 1st rd
JoJo highly paid FA because the Texans cant draft DB's
McCain- 6th rd
Harris 2nd rd
Swearinger 2nd rd
Manning, See JoJo
Keo 6th rd

This shows how terrible Rick (a former DB) is at picking DB's. Tell me how Rick still has a job? For that matter Bobby Greir?
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Old 02-03-2014   #44
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Sherman 5th rd
Maxwell 6th rd
Browner UDFA
Chancellor 5th rd
Thomas 1st rd.

Texans under Rick/Gary/Wade

KJ 1st rd
JoJo highly paid FA because the Texans cant draft DB's
McCain- 6th rd
Harris 2nd rd
Swearinger 2nd rd
Manning, See JoJo
Keo 6th rd

This shows how terrible Rick (a former DB) is at picking DB's. Tell me how Rick still has a job? For that matter Bobby Greir?
Not only that but the only DB he ever did hit on was promptly let go after his rookie contract in order to sign an over-the-hill headcase in Ed Reed!
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Old 02-03-2014   #45
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

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Our front office is playing Checkers while Seattle's is Bobby Fischer
^^^^
This
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Old 02-03-2014   #46
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

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Originally Posted by Norg View Post
over the past few years tho pocket passing QB's have been the only type of qb's winning SB


Manning
Eli
Eli
Big ben
Big ben
Flacco
Brady
brady
brady
Rodgers
Breees
Trent dilfer
brad Johnson

so Russell last name Wilson imma kinda glad he won now he threw a monkey wrench in that hole thing I think if u have a rookie game manger type qb and a super strong DEF that can work has well
I see several excellent to very outstanding defenses backing that list of QBs which begs the question of which was really more important on those various SB teams ?
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Old 02-03-2014   #47
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

would rick smith do this?

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Old 02-03-2014   #48
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
All true. Just for an added piece of info as teams get suggested I'll add a measure of QB contribution - post-season QB TDs/INTs

2013 Seahawks - Wilson 3 TDs/0 INTs
2007 Giants - Eli 6 TDs/1 INT
2002 Bucs - Johnson 5 TDs/3 INTs
2000 Ravens - Dilfer 3 TDs/1 INT
1985 Bears - McMahon 3 TDs/0 INTs

So far the 2007 Giants got the most out of their QB.
Eli had to play 4 games in 2007 to win the Super Bowl. The others listed only had to play 3 because they had first round byes. So here is the average for each:

Wilson: 1
Eli: 1.5
B Johnson: 1.66
Dilfer: 1

While it's interesting to see, we need more SB winning QBs to gauge how much they really did during the playoffs. Here are a few more just for the heck of it.

Big Ben 2005: 4 games, 7 passing TDs, 2 rushing TDs, 803 yards, 3 INT (2.25 TD per game)
Big Ben 2008: 3 games, 3 TDs, 692 yards, 1 INT (1 TD per game)
A Rodgers 2010: 4 games, 9 passing TDs, 2 rushing TDs, 1094 yards, 2 INT (2.75 TD per game)
Brees 2009: 3 games, 8 TDs, 732 yards, 0 INT (2.66 TD per game)

It seems about 2 TDs per game, maybe a little less, would be the measuring stick used to swing it from great defense to great QB carrying the team.

I think you could make a good case for the 08 Steelers' defense being the reason they won. The James Harrison pick 6 was huge, and then holding that offense to only 23 points was a big win for them. Warner/Fitz/Boldin was a hell of a trio that year.
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Old 02-03-2014   #49
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post

This shows how terrible Rick (a former DB) is at picking DB's. Tell me how Rick still has a job? For that matter Bobby Greir?
Rick has Bob McNair convinced that he is the reason the team picked JJ Watt, so he got to keep his job for another year or so. If not for that, he would have been shown the door.
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Old 02-03-2014   #50
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

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I just hope like hell Rick Smith and O'brown will work together as closely as the 'Hawks management for the team.
I hope Rick and thank you O'brown are as smart as the hawks.
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Old 02-03-2014   #51
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

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Our front office is playing Checkers while Seattle's is Bobby Fischer
And the head of the front office is still there.
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Old 02-03-2014   #52
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

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I hope Rick and thank you O'brown are as smart as the hawks.
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Old 02-03-2014   #53
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

...our boys need the Seahawks' adderall supplier
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Old 02-03-2014   #54
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Four truly elite Ds stick out - '85 Bears, '00 Ravens, '02 Bucs, '13 Seahawks.

In that same period at least 15 SBs have been won by HoF or future HoF QBs.
I'm older than you.

Doomsday I - Elite and
Doomsday II - Almost Elite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_Defense

BTW, Count the number of HOF QB's LOSSES or NEVER GOT THERE'S for a better comparison. Plus, you always attribute a W to the QB when it is often deserved by another. Biased awards do not confirm the validity of the bias.
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Old 02-03-2014   #55
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

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Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
I'm older than you.

Doomsday I - Elite and
Doomsday II - Almost Elite
I'm well aware of the Doomsday defenses, thank you. You will see them in the balanced teams thread in the NFL forum. The four listed are commonly thought of as having won without a top QB (the Seahawks were only included because of Wilson's youth).

Quote:
BTW, Count the number of HOF QB's LOSSES or NEVER GOT THERE'S for a better comparison. Plus, you always attribute a W to the QB when it is often deserved by another. Biased awards do not confirm the validity of the bias.
Not a better comparison. It's important to look at the post being responded to which was that it is easier to build a D which can carry a team to success than to find an elite QB to do so. So there is no point citing well balanced teams who had both. I mentioned HoF QBs to get rid of the argument they didn't contribute to the win/weren't elite.
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Old 02-03-2014   #56
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

Scott Kacsmar ‏@FO_ScottKacsmar
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Then when he gets paid, like Joe Flacco, you lose cap space to keep the team intact. Hence 8-8 Ravens and 22 INTs.

When you have a young QB, and he wasn't drafted to a bogus Sam Bradford-type deal, it's easier to build a great team around him.

This is the impact of the salary cap. The younger QB has won 11 of the last 13 SBs. Before that, just 12-20 (.375).

14 of the last 15 Super Bowl winners had a quarterback age 30 or younger.
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Old 02-03-2014   #57
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

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Then when he gets paid, like Joe Flacco, you lose cap space to keep the team intact. Hence 8-8 Ravens and 22 INTs.

When you have a young QB, and he wasn't drafted to a bogus Sam Bradford-type deal, it's easier to build a great team around him.

This is the impact of the salary cap. The younger QB has won 11 of the last 13 SBs. Before that, just 12-20 (.375).

14 of the last 15 Super Bowl winners had a quarterback age 30 or younger.
This would be a lot better substantiated if he looked at it by rookie, 1st, 2nd, etc. contract (or by cap hit). He's associating younger with cheaper and that may not be the case after the rookie contract. For example, younger Big Ben beat older Kurt Warner but Big Ben had the bigger contract.

His point is good if you limit to rookie contracts.
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Old 02-03-2014   #58
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Sherman 5th rd
Maxwell 6th rd
Browner UDFA
Chancellor 5th rd
Thomas 1st rd.

Texans under Rick/Gary/Wade

KJ 1st rd
JoJo highly paid FA because the Texans cant draft DB's
McCain- 6th rd
Harris 2nd rd
Swearinger 2nd rd
Manning, See JoJo
Keo 6th rd

This shows how terrible Rick (a former DB) is at picking DB's. Tell me how Rick still has a job? For that matter Bobby Greir?
Seattle is the exception, not the rule.
Why don't you pull up the 49er starters on offense and see how many 1st rounders they have.

I say again, it's the coaches and scouts that beat the bushes and truly find the talent. The GM position, on most NFL teams, is over-rated.
...especially by fans.
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Old 02-03-2014   #59
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

I didn't learn what I already knew. Seahawks have a lot of young,cheap talentg. They have a wave of rushers you have to acct for. This is the closest I've seen since the 90s cowboys. They need to win as many as they can in the nxt 2 yrs. By then wilson,sherman,and tthomas will eat up almost half the cap. They will lose the depth they've attained.

From denver point,injuries hurt their depth. Vickerson,miller,the cb who just got hurt and clady. They will lose decker,but they will draft a guy or give a guy a deal that makes sense.
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Old 02-03-2014   #60
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Default Re: What I took away from Super Bowl related to Texans

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Four truly elite Ds stick out - '85 Bears, '00 Ravens, '02 Bucs, '13 Seahawks.

In that same period at least 15 SBs have been won by HoF or future HoF QBs.
If you go back and inspect all the Super Bowl that had been played out since then, you should see a very different story from the one you came up through simplification.

Seriously!
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