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Old 01-31-2014   #121
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Default Re: Here's what we ought to do.

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Originally Posted by Raf View Post
Until it's certain or rather until O'Brian is CERTAIN of what Schaub can or can't do in his system no one can flat out say it's $4.5 million in saving and a $10 million dead money cap hit. I don't care what anyone says, $10 million in cap space is a ton of money. A lot of players can be structured in with that much room.
I think you're missing the point. The question is keeping Schaub ($14.5 mil cap hit), releasing Schaub ($10.5 million cap hit), or releasing Schaub as a June 1st cut ($3.5 million cap hit in 2014, $7 million cap hit in 2015). Those are the numbers, and more cap room is available without Schaub than with.

I think the writing is on the wall that Schaub will be released once the league year starts. The owner has seen enough. He doesn't want to sell a lame duck season with Schaub as QB to the fans. I also can't see O'Brien wanting to waste a season with a QB he has no intention on keeping. Any scenario that has keeping Schaub on the roster is far-fetched, at best.
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Old 01-31-2014   #122
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Default Re: "Matt Schaub gives Texans best chance to win in 2014" -Marshall Faulk

Re: "Matt Schaub gives Texans best chance to win in 2014" -Marshall Faulk

So what! This morning Joe Theisman said that Keenum is the man. He knows lots more about qb's than Faulk will ever know
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Old 01-31-2014   #123
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Default Re: Here's what we ought to do.

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
I think the writing is on the wall that Schaub will be released once the league year starts. The owner has seen enough. He doesn't want to sell a lame duck season with Schaub as QB to the fans. I also can't see O'Brien wanting to waste a season with a QB he has no intention on keeping. Any scenario that has keeping Schaub on the roster is far-fetched, at best.
The existence of this thread is proof positive that Marshall Faulk is just another national talking head that doesn't know jack **** about the QB situation in Houston. I seriously doubt that he's even watched any Texans games that his network didn't broadcast. All he knows is Schaub's history. The foot injury isn't even on the national radar.

If a former player that's also a film junkie like Ron Jaworski said that Matt Schaub gives the Texans the best chance to win, then that opinion would hold some water. Jaworksi watches film. Faulk argues with other ex-jocks in a studio.

McNair told us all we needed to know when he said Keenum would be starting the rest of the season. Once he said that, Schaub's fate was sealed. Anyone who thinks that Schaub might be on the roster next year is in denial.

CND told us what to expect after the Lisfranc injury happened and it's come to pass. I expect him to get released and not pass a physical for other teams as soon as they see the x-rays.

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Old 01-31-2014   #124
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Default Re: Here's what we ought to do.

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Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
CND told us what to expect after the Lisfranc injury happened and it's come to pass. I expect him to get released and not pass a physical for other teams as soon as they see the x-rays.
He'll pass a physical just fine. The legacy will weigh heavily in considering him however.
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Old 01-31-2014   #125
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Default Re: Here's what we ought to do.

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If O'Brian is certain that Schaub won't cut it, sure...cut your losses and it's easily viewed as $4.5 million saved. But O'Brian could very well value the $10 million dead cap hit more than some are willing to believe. He could view it as Schaub not being $10 million cap dollars bad. Or even not as bad enough for him to take the $10M dead money hit and committing to one of these rookie QBs because that's in essence the case.

I see that here on this board along with social media that the masses talk about Schaub being released and $4.5M in saving as if it's imminent. These folks could be setting themselves up for huge disappointment. No one knows whether O'Brian values the $4.5M in cap savings over the $10M in dead money or vice versa, values the $10M cap hit over the $4.5 in cap saving, thus thinking Schaub and his contract is better than the rookie prospects.

I'm simply trying to view both sides objectively.
Objectively it doesn't matter. Either we're spending $14M to let Schaub play out his contract, or we're taking a $10M dead money cap hit. We don't get $10M to sign anyone regardless.

Now, if they talk him into taking a paycut this year, to $1M (which I don't think he would go that low) then Schaub's cap for 2014 would be $4.5M & we save ~$10M. Then we can cut him as a 2015 June 1st cut with $3.5M dead money on 2015 & 2016.

So if OB "values" that $10M he needs to be able to sell ice to an Eskimo & talk Schaub into a $9M pay cut.
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Old 01-31-2014   #126
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Default Re: Here's what we ought to do.

I get what you guys are saying and agreed. However, when I bring up the idea of OB valuing the $10M, I didn't mean he would be free to use it on other bodies. I referred to it as $10M from a pure principle standpoint. To be more clear, it involves OB getting production (staying with Schaub for the time being) out of the $10M versus it being dead money, regardless of it being positive or unimpressive production. The positive of either were explained in my initial post, one page back.

$10M is $10M of cap space, any way you slice it. Whether it's in one year, two years, etc...it's $10M, and in this case, $10.5 to be exact, in a span of two years. I only bring these points up only to heavily weigh the possibilities that come with either decision.

Now, for some, it's a matter of cutting Matt Schaub just for the sake of cutting him. To some the cap figures matter to varying degrees whereas others want him gone, regardless of the impact it has on it.

For me personally (and not implying that you all are), I don't see a Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck available in either FA or upcoming draft. It's all speculation as to how OB sees Schaub. And while it sure looks like the writing was on the wall for Schaub when McNair decided that Keenum would bench Schaub in favor of Keenum playing out the season, IMO, doesn't exactly seal his fate for this team. I don't know about you guys...but I don't want McNair deciding who the QB is for this team from a pure performance/scouting standpoint. I trust OB making that decision...not McNair. Sure McNair could force him...but it's bad for business.

I've never been high on Schaub, even in his best seasons. But neither do I think he's trash. If I were to label him out of the two...I'd say he's what he was a few years back, a comptetent QB. What if OB sees it that way himself? Hell, he might be done with him, alright. But until its official, I don't think it's asinine to to entertain the possibility of OB retaining Schaub for some of the reasons laid on the table.

It's uncertain as to the type of system/offense OB will run. Who his offensive coordinator, if any, will be. We know nothing. Until then, as to what happens to Matt Schaub is pure conjecture, no more...no less. So how can anyone say for sure.
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Old 01-31-2014   #127
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Default Re: Here's what we ought to do.

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Originally Posted by Raf View Post

I've never been high on Schaub, even in his best seasons. But neither do I think he's trash. If I were to label him out of the two...I'd say he's what he was a few years back, a comptetent QB.
Schaub has gotten progressively worse since week 10 of the 012 season. If he was the qb he was in 2011 before his injury, it wouldn't even be considered to release him. But he's not!
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Old 01-31-2014   #128
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Default Re: Here's what we ought to do.

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Originally Posted by JB View Post
Schaub has gotten progressively worse since week 10 of the 012 season. If he was the qb he was in 2011 before his injury, it wouldn't even be considered to release him. But he's not!
I can 100% agree with this. People who act like Schaub has ALWAYS been garbage need to brush up some knowledge.
Also, Schaub at his best was a far superior QB than Keenum at his. That being said, Keenum is the only QB who should be on this roster at the start of the next season.
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Old 01-31-2014   #129
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Default Re: Here's what we ought to do.

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I can 100% agree with this. People who act like Schaub has ALWAYS been garbage need to brush up some knowledge.
Also, Schaub at his best was a far superior QB than Keenum at his. That being said, Keenum is the only QB who should be on this roster at the start of the next season.
We have no idea what we have in Yates, and no idea how O'Brien will view them. I'm thinking that Yates and Keenum will be given a good look in training camp
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Old 01-31-2014   #130
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Default Re: Here's what we ought to do.

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Originally Posted by JB View Post
We have no idea what we have in Yates, and no idea how O'Brien will view them. I'm thinking that Yates and Keenum will be given a good look in training camp
I agree that Yates will be on the roster, I football however think we have seen what we have in Yates, albeit a small sample size. In my opinion he's Jay Feeley. I mean he can maybe get it done in a pinch, but he's nowhere near capable enough to get you where you want. I know when he played the last half of 2011 the team wasn't at full strength with Dre being out & OD missing some time. I don't care about his TD/INT ratio( sample size IS to small for that), but his accuracy is atrocious in the intermediate range where you HAVE to be at least decent. His decision making leaves a lot to be desired. He's capable enough to tear it up in the preseason, buut that's against other teams 2's & 3's. He will be on the team next season but he's probably no better than a 3.
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Old 02-01-2014   #131
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Default Re: "Matt Schaub gives Texans best chance to win in 2014" -Marshall Faulk

Matt gives us the best chance to be 8-8 O YEAHHH !!!!
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Old 02-01-2014   #132
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Default Re: "Matt Schaub gives Texans best chance to win in 2014" -Marshall Faulk

It's possible that he's right, but I seriously doubt Marshall has done his homework on this or any Texans topic.
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Old 02-01-2014   #133
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Default Re: Here's what we ought to do.

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Originally Posted by JB View Post
We have no idea what we have in Yates, and no idea how O'Brien will view them. I'm thinking that Yates and Keenum will be given a good look in training camp
The Doc knows...
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If you believe that Schaub was always dealing with injuries, try to remember that Yates has proven to be quite fragile dating back to 2011.........dealing with shoulder problems (including a separation on one side), and throwing elbow and back problems since 2012.......and most of this after very little game play and very sparse practice time. There was good reason why Yates was given such little consideration for real game time after the 2011 season.......and did so poorly in his very limited 2012 and 2013 game appearances And there is no reason to believe that these type of mounting problems won't continue their course, and his performance continue to be unacceptable.

[This is not to even mention his Tar Heels experience where he was stricken with ankle sprains, ankle fracture, throwing shoulder problems leading to surgery, and, of course, his infamous thumb sprain incurred while playing Frisbee. The latter made national news due to the panzy-sounding event. He later tried to explain that he incurred it with a redshirt teammate in a informal non-contact "redshirt football" activity (which would be bad enough).]
Yates appears to be a walking MASH unit...
...makes me wonder if Yates was nursing some undisclosed "nick" (we know how open and forthcoming the Texans always are regarding telling all about player injuries ) and that played into why Keenum leap-frogged him...

Last edited by ObsiWan; 02-01-2014 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 02-01-2014   #134
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Default Re: "Matt Schaub gives Texans best chance to win in 2014" -Marshall Faulk

Well I think it`s true, Schaub gives us the best chance to win. It is hard to win with a rookie QB and I don`t think there is any FA QB worth investing heavily in.

Schaub was a good QB for us before last season. But he was never the QB that would help us win in the playoffs. He was a guy that you could win with if you have the right team around him.

Last season he imploded. Part of it was the O-Line, a huge part of it was mental. Could he get back to his old, adequate days? Maybe. But it would be really hard for him to do that in Houston, because I don`t think many Texans fans would welcome him back with open arms.

Now it might be smart to bring him back to tutor a rookie QB and allow him to sit and learn for the first season or 8 games or so. But it would take a big financial investment. That`s why I don`t think he will be back. Lately rookie QBs start right away and do good. Im betting this will be our route going forward.
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Old 02-01-2014   #135
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Default Re: Here's what we ought to do.

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We have no idea what we have in Yates
Disagree.

We got enough of a sample the last few years to see what he has. Could he have performed different behind a better O-line? Maybe, but we can see this kid isn't the second coming, or going to be elite in this league. I don't think he is here next year, and Case is the back-up. O'Briens offense has typically been geared toward the prototypical size and strengths of the pocket QB. If he is going to adjust that philosophy, it wont be for Yates or Case ... but it might be for Johnny Football ...
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Old 02-01-2014   #136
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Default Re: "Matt Schaub gives Texans best chance to win in 2014" -Marshall Faulk

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Matt gives us the best chance to be 8-8 O YEAHHH !!!!
I've been a lukewarm Kubiak supporter; believing him not to be as bad as "everyone" says & rooting for him to prove everyone wrong.

That said, with Matt Schaub & a better game day coach, we could have had a lot more success over the last 7 years... at least that's what I believe.

I'm not saying I want Schaub back; my desire to see him prove everyone wrong is nowhere near high enough to not want to move forward with a new QB.
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Old 02-01-2014   #137
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Thumbs down Re: "Matt Schaub gives Texans best chance to win in 2014" -Marshall Faulk

smdh....

battered wife syndrome in effect here.

Abusive husband = Matt Schaub

Abused Wife = delusional texan fans who still want schaub on the team.

one star given and lost credibility by faulk. Ill be taking what he says on NFLN with a huge grain of salt from now on.

im outta here. nothing has changed.
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Old 02-01-2014   #138
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Default Re: "Matt Schaub gives Texans best chance to win in 2014" -Marshall Faulk

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You cannot be serious about this. Schaub had a rough season but saying hrs is light years better than Schaub is an absolute joke of a comment.
Tell me has Palmer played light yrs better than Schaub since game 10 2012?

Palmer is a very good QB with a great HC, that has taken a Cards team to a 10-6 record in the best division in the NFL.

Schaub? Sets an NFL record for pick 6's and gets benched. Yeah, I would say light yrs is an appropriate term.
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Old 02-01-2014   #139
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Default Re: "Matt Schaub gives Texans best chance to win in 2014" -Marshall Faulk

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Re: "Matt Schaub gives Texans best chance to win in 2014" -Marshall Faulk

So what! This morning Joe Theisman said that Keenum is the man. He knows lots more about qb's than Faulk will ever know

He would be the first one pissing on the Texans for not trying to upgrade the position after the first pick six too.

We have to cut Schaub and I don't care if we go 2-14 next year we have to get rid of that goofy ass contract they gave him in order to give this team a chance in the future.
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Old 02-01-2014   #140
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Default Re: "Matt Schaub gives Texans best chance to win in 2014" -Marshall Faulk

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Tell me has Palmer played light yrs better than Schaub since game 10 2012?

Palmer is a very good QB with a great HC, that has taken a Cards team to a 10-6 record in the best division in the NFL.

Schaub? Sets an NFL record for pick 6's and gets benched. Yeah, I would say light yrs is an appropriate term.

The Arizona Cardinals went 10-6 in spite of Palmer. He wasn't that good and if the Cardinals would've benched him if they had a better option. He only had 2 more TD's than INT's (24-22). Against teams that made the playoffs he threw 12 touchdowns to 16 interceptions. His supporting cast was comparable to Schaubs on offense but Arizona had one of the better most opportunistic defenses in the NFL and a better head coach. That's why they went 10-6.
Schaub had a rough season no doubt, but his problems weren't exclusively due to him. Injuries to key players, piss poor headcoaching and playcalling.That combined with his mentality after everything started snowballing all contributed.
I'm not defending the guy from his mistakes and I agree he needs to go, butI'm also not so spiteful to the guy that I let my knowledge of the game be blinded by it. To say Palmer is LIGHTYEARS better than Schaub IS a joke to peopke who know the game and pay attention.
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