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Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

CloakNNNdagger

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
According OVER THE CAP.COM numbers, there's going to have to be a lot of shuffling and creativity. Note the Colts and Jags numbers.
2014 Salary Cap Space Update- Jan 22
by jason

I figure every week in which there are some salary updates to post I’ll post estimates for the salary cap space for each team in 2014. The estimates include estimated carryover totals from 2013, savings from voidable contracts, and all escalators that have been earned thus far. Futures contracts are also included and most teams are at the top 51 figure already. The numbers don’t include adjustments for LTBEs/NLTBEs, grievances, etc…but they should give a fair estimate as to where teams stand heading into 2014.

Per my estimates four teams will be over the salary cap and two teams (Chargers and Rams) are both so close that they may be over the cap. Another 9 teams should have less than $10 million in room and are teams that may need changes. If you want to see how many free agents the various teams have, you can check out this post from Jan 14 that details the free agents by team. Any questions feel free to email or post in the comments.


Team Contracts Est. Adjusted Cap Estimated Cap Space
Raiders 50 $128,732,661 $61,556,390
Jaguars 51 $145,945,313 $50,856,859
Browns 51 $150,837,568 $45,557,017
Colts 51 $126,907,910 $33,940,530
Dolphins 49 $144,364,087 $32,523,028
Redskins 51 $127,669,236 $27,893,929
Packers 51 $136,120,458 $27,655,575
Bengals 51 $135,416,604 $24,702,456
Vikings 51 $127,112,313 $23,549,568
Eagles 51 $143,469,767 $20,870,691
Jets 51 $127,773,437 $20,169,558
Bills 51 $144,426,975 $19,887,485
Broncos 47 $134,256,880 $17,805,118
Panthers 51 $137,912,268 $13,940,772
Giants 51 $126,317,447 $13,219,473
Buccaneers 51 $133,069,781 $12,043,336
Ravens 47 $127,831,423 $11,396,102
49ers 51 $128,475,038 $7,138,511
Falcons 51 $129,435,467 $6,859,837
Patriots 51 $130,324,801 $6,845,171
Titans 51 $133,253,561 $6,656,952
Bears 46 $127,096,726 $5,625,725
Seahawks 45 $129,145,003 $3,011,926
Cardinals 51 $132,050,006 $2,455,586
Texans 51 $127,382,080 $2,146,650
Chiefs 51 $128,781,515 $1,346,628
Rams 51 $126,472,529 $790,846
Chargers 51 $128,619,342 ($462,912)
Lions 51 $127,774,552 ($5,332,206)
Saints 51 $126,923,917 ($11,990,654)
Steelers 51 $127,652,450 ($12,471,398)
Cowboys 51 $127,580,694 ($22,681,516)
Click to expand...
 
That, I believe is the primary reason Matt Schaub won't be back next season & will be a June 1st cut. That immediately adds $11M to our cap this season, $10M to our cap for 2015, & $19M to our cap for 2016.

It's a no brainer to me.

I also don't believe Rick Smith screwed up our cap. We were a Super Bowl contender before the season started. Patriots, 9ers, & Falcon aren't far from us.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
 
TEXANRED said:
I guess I don't understand how the Jags have $145M in cap space and we have $127M.
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Probably due to cap carryover, which is when unused cap from previous years moves to the future year. That would also be a sign that ownership is unwilling to use up all their cap space.
 
There will be restructuring. There will be borrowing money from 2015 & 2016 to pay for 2014. There will be more of the same.

FYI - If the Texans cut Schaub and Foster and accounted for all Dead Money in 2014, the Texans would begin 2015 $50 million under the cap in 2015.
 
That's ridiculous that the Colts have that much cap space.

Look for player purging by the Saints and Cowboys, or some severe restructuring.
 
dsorc said:
Probably due to cap carryover, which is when unused cap from previous years moves to the future year. That would also be a sign that ownership is unwilling to use up all their cap space.
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There is a limitation to how much you can carryover, and the CBA stipulates a cap floor, teams gave to spend a certain amount. I just can't see how the Colts have that kind of room.
 
Big Lou said:
There is a limitation to how much you can carryover, and the CBA stipulates a cap floor, teams gave to spend a certain amount. I just can't see how the Colts have that kind of room.
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Please elaborate on the limitations to the carryover amounts, as I'm not familiar with them.

Also, while there is a floor in place, it doesn't have to be met on a yearly basis. It basically applies to the four year period ending with the 2016 season. It does require that a minimum of 89% of the cap be spent over that period, but since compliance with that 89% amount isn't required until the end of that cumulative period, it makes the concept of a floor in any one specific year non-applicable.
 
Texian said:
There will be restructuring. There will be borrowing money from 2015 & 2016 to pay for 2014. There will be more of the same.

FYI - If the Texans cut Schaub and Foster and accounted for all Dead Money in 2014, the Texans would begin 2015 $50 million under the cap in 2015.
Click to expand...

Ok..... I'm being serious here. Obviously I don't understand what you are saying... but I would love to. Are you saying we should never offer a signing bonus to the players we intend to sign?

I ask, because that is the only "dead money" to speak of in the Texans' cap figure.

Looking at the Patriots numbers & ours don't seem much different, player for player. We're just paying our players more, imo our players "deserve" more.

The Patriots only have 4 players with a cap number over $6M, we've got 8. They've got about $8M, we've got $3M. Their number doesn't include Talib who made $4.8M last year (if the Pats sign him for next year with a $5M cap number, the Patriots would be at $3M under the cap).

What am I not seeing that you do?
 
TEXANS84 said:
That's ridiculous that the Colts have that much cap space.

Look for player purging by the Saints and Cowboys, or some severe restructuring.
Click to expand...

Having that kinda cap space and having Luck is going to make the Colts SB contenders for yrs to come.

The reason the Texans are in the cap shape they are in is because Rick misread how much the cap would be going up and wrongly thought Schaub was the man to lead the Texans to a SB. Along with not realizing that that Gary had run Foster into the ground. (He should have realized this. Plenty of people on this MB predicted the fall of Foster.)

Thanks Rick
 
thunderkyss said:
Ok..... I'm being serious here. Obviously I don't understand what you are saying... but I would love to. Are you saying we should never offer a signing bonus to the players we intend to sign?

I ask, because that is the only "dead money" to speak of in the Texans' cap figure.

Looking at the Patriots numbers & ours don't seem much different, player for player. We're just paying our players more, imo our players "deserve" more.

The Patriots only have 4 players with a cap number over $6M, we've got 8. They've got about $8M, we've got $3M. Their number doesn't include Talib who made $4.8M last year (if the Pats sign him for next year with a $5M cap number, the Patriots would be at $3M under the cap).

What am I not seeing that you do?
Click to expand...

The difference is that they put 18m a year towards a HOF QB, while we continue to pay 10-15m a year for a HOF WR who has ****ty QBs throwing to him.

That and their coach routinely finds quality starters from other teams castoffs. That's the difference.
 
thunderkyss said:
Ok..... I'm being serious here. Obviously I don't understand what you are saying... but I would love to. Are you saying we should never offer a signing bonus to the players we intend to sign?

I ask, because that is the only "dead money" to speak of in the Texans' cap figure.

Looking at the Patriots numbers & ours don't seem much different, player for player. We're just paying our players more, imo our players "deserve" more.

The Patriots only have 4 players with a cap number over $6M, we've got 8. They've got about $8M, we've got $3M. Their number doesn't include Talib who made $4.8M last year (if the Pats sign him for next year with a $5M cap number, the Patriots would be at $3M under the cap).

What am I not seeing that you do?
Click to expand...

Here is what I am saying, on average each NFL team allocates approx. $5 million each year to cover IR replacements, practice squad and LTBEs (Likely to Be Earned, Incentives). Taking this into account that leaves the Texans roughly $3 million over the cap. The Texans will also have approx 15 contracts to replace due to the number of players lost in free agency this year. The Texans do not have the salary cap space to spend the money needed to replace any lost players with equal or better talent. Once again the Texans will have to make due with signing vet minimum, rookie contracts and the draft to complete their rosters. The Texans will also restructure some contracts (borrow money form future years) in order to have enough money to pay for their 53 man roster/contracts.

In Regards to Schaub and Foster, if the Texans were to allocate all dead money to the 2014 season that would allow them to take their full amount off the 2015 books, $17 mil for Schaub and $9 mil for Foster. Manning and Daniels are 2015 free agents so their $6 mil salaries come off the 2015 books also. This would allow the Texans to start 2015 roughly $50 million or more under the 2015 salary cap.

Signing bonuses are OK but the bottom line with any contract is the Guaranteed Money. Back loading contracts is what destroys Salary Caps. Ideally contracts should be constructed with as much front end money as possible.

This scenario is the same scenario and pattern of behavior used by the Texans the last two years. As a result the Texans teams have deteriorated since 2011 because of attrition. The Texans have not had the available money to use in free agency to replace starters and good back ups. Instead they've had to make due with minimum contracts and the drafts. Drafts have been disappointing especially after round 1. As a result starters have been replaced with lesser talent, along 2nd team backups. This lesser talent also has a direct diverse affect on the Special Teams. That in a nutshell is the story of your Houston Texans today and why each year for the last two years they have become less competitive with each passing year.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Having that kinda cap space and having Luck is going to make the Colts SB contenders for yrs to come.

The reason the Texans are in the cap shape they are in is because Rick misread how much the cap would be going up and wrongly thought Schaub was the man to lead the Texans to a SB. Along with not realizing that that Gary had run Foster into the ground. (He should have realized this. Plenty of people on this MB predicted the fall of Foster.)

Thanks Rick
Click to expand...

Something I have been saying since 2010. Many and most accuse me of being a Debbie Downer, making wild predictions, a hater and host of other derogatory terms. I say it's not wild predictions, alternative histories or anything else, I am simply doing the math.
 
TEXANS84 said:
That's ridiculous that the Colts have that much cap space.

Look for player purging by the Saints and Cowboys, or some severe restructuring.
Click to expand...

Think of it this way.
The Texans had guys on IR for most of the years that account for some $22-26M in cap space last year (Foster, Manning, OD, and Cushing.)

If none of these guys ever played a down last year, does it many any difference?
Hey, if Schaub didn't count in cap space like he didn't count on the field, the Texans would have had tons of cap space.

Currently, Overthecap is counting guys with active contracts.
The Colts have more FAs that they need to resign to have the same team as last year.

By the time all is said and done, the numbers for both teams will be closer.
The Colts took their lump in 2011-12; they are on a different cycle, that's all.

In a few years when guys Luck, Castonzo, Hilton, Allen, Fleener (to name a few) need a big pay check to retain, it will be a different story.
 
Texian said:
...The Texans will also have approx 15 contracts to replace due to the number of players lost in free agency this year. The Texans do not have the salary cap space to spend the money needed to replace any lost players with equal or better talent. Once again the Texans will have to make due with signing vet minimum, rookie contracts and the draft to complete their rosters. The Texans will also restructure some contracts (borrow money form future years) in order to have enough money to pay for their 53 man roster/contracts...the Texans teams have deteriorated since 2011 because of attrition. The Texans have not had the available money to use in free agency to replace starters and good back ups. Instead they've had to make due with minimum contracts and the drafts. Drafts have been disappointing especially after round 1. As a result starters have been replaced with lesser talent, along 2nd team backups. This lesser talent also has a direct diverse affect on the Special Teams. That in a nutshell is the story of your Houston Texans today...
Click to expand...
Great explanation.

You've just made my argument supporting trading down from our 1-1 pick to acquire additional high draft picks, rather than betting the farm on a QB with that first pick and supported by insufficient talent around him.

It goes without saying that the new coaching staff must do a better job in evaluating the draft talent.
 
steelbtexan said:
Having that kinda cap space and having Luck is going to make the Colts SB contenders for yrs to come.

The reason the Texans are in the cap shape they are in is because Rick misread how much the cap would be going up and wrongly thought Schaub was the man to lead the Texans to a SB. Along with not realizing that that Gary had run Foster into the ground. (He should have realized this. Plenty of people on this MB predicted the fall of Foster.)

Thanks Rick
Click to expand...

Not a big Rick Smith fan, If I had my way, I'd have fired him in2010 & kept Kubiak..... that said, Schaub was well on his way in 2011 into making Rick Smith look like a smart man. Had we finished the season the way he started, we get to the AFC Championship game, possibly the Super Bowl... Rick would've looked like a genius.

I agree that a good GM will be right on those kinds of gambles & Rick has a very poor history with them (OD, Foster, Cushing).... so that's one thing. But I don't know we can blame Slick Rick (WD40) for Kubiak running Foster into the ground (happened after Rick paid him) or for Jamal Charles doing the what he was taught to do.

I still think the structure of Schaub's contract was just a hair short of genius. It gave Matt two years (2012, 2013) to prove he is an elite QB before we were paying him elite QB money ($14M cap numbers). We've got an out, we can cut him now & realize a net gain.

I bet you dollars to donuts Ozzie offered Flacco a similar deal & he wishes Flacco would have took it.
 
Dutchrudder said:
The difference is that they put 18m a year towards a HOF QB, while we continue to pay 10-15m a year for a HOF WR who has ****ty QBs throwing to him.

That and their coach routinely finds quality starters from other teams castoffs. That's the difference.
Click to expand...

Very good point, but not the point Texian is arguing.
 
ChampionTexan said:
Please elaborate on the limitations to the carryover amounts, as I'm not familiar with them.

Also, while there is a floor in place, it doesn't have to be met on a yearly basis. It basically applies to the four year period ending with the 2016 season. It does require that a minimum of 89% of the cap be spent over that period, but since compliance with that 89% amount isn't required until the end of that cumulative period, it makes the concept of a floor in any one specific year non-applicable.
Click to expand...

Man I must have made that up. I could have sworn I read where teams could only carry over a certain amount of cap money left over. After searching I see teams that have carried like 24 million over. I'm suprised no one has tanked like 3-4 years in a row just to bank a lot of cash and make a big run.

I wonder if you have carry over you have to spend that the following season or you lose it.
 
Big Lou said:
Man I must have made that up. I could have sworn I read where teams could only carry over a certain amount of cap money left over. After searching I see teams that have carried like 24 million over. I'm suprised no one has tanked like 3-4 years in a row just to bank a lot of cash and make a big run.

I wonder if you have carry over you have to spend that the following season or you lose it.
Click to expand...
You might have been thinking when the new CBA was signed a small amount $2-3 m IIRC was allowed to re-sign a FA vet that was above the cap limit. This was allowed for two seasons, I think. Texans did not use.
 
Texian said:
Here is what I am saying, on average each NFL team allocates approx. $5 million each year to cover IR replacements, practice squad and LTBEs (Likely to Be Earned, Incentives). Taking this into account that leaves the Texans roughly $3 million over the cap. The Texans will also have approx 15 contracts to replace due to the number of players lost in free agency this year. The Texans do not have the salary cap space to spend the money needed to replace any lost players with equal or better talent. Once again the Texans will have to make due with signing vet minimum, rookie contracts and the draft to complete their rosters. The Texans will also restructure some contracts (borrow money form future years) in order to have enough money to pay for their 53 man roster/contracts.
Click to expand...

So how's that different than the Patriots? Like I said, we've got twice as many players with a $6M+ cap number than they do & they've only got $5M more than we've got. If Talib was signed for another year, they would be in the same boat.

Texian said:
Signing bonuses are OK but the bottom line with any contract is the Guaranteed Money. Back loading contracts is what destroys Salary Caps. Ideally contracts should be constructed with as much front end money as possible.
Click to expand...

I do not agree with this. Back loaded contracts, to me, is like money in that bank. The mistake, I think, is letting these guys play out those portions of their contracts. Mario for instance, the Texans should have known (& probably did) what they valued Mario at before the 2011 season, he never should have been allowed to play for $18M, that money should have been converted to a bonus & Mario extended for at least 4 years.

I like Mario, but there's no way he was worth an $18M salary or cap hit. If we couldn't reach a deal, I would have tried to trade him. No other team would have wanted to pay the $18M, but they could have worked out a new contract, just like we did with Schaub. He could have been a Patriot, for a lot less than $96M.

Texian said:
This scenario is the same scenario and pattern of behavior used by the Texans the last two years. As a result the Texans teams have deteriorated since 2011 because of attrition. The Texans have not had the available money to use in free agency to replace starters and good back ups. Instead they've had to make due with minimum contracts and the drafts. Drafts have been disappointing especially after round 1. As a result starters have been replaced with lesser talent, along 2nd team backups. This lesser talent also has a direct diverse affect on the Special Teams. That in a nutshell is the story of your Houston Texans today and why each year for the last two years they have become less competitive with each passing year.
Click to expand...

I'm still not seeing it. I can see how you've allowed several facts to add up to a particular result.... but that deterioration has more to do (in my mind) with Schaub second guessing himself, Foster's back issues, & Cushing's knee than it does with an inability to sign quality free agents or replace starters. Kj, Manning, Swearinger, & Jjo were a big part of our problem in 2013 & we paid a pretty penny for each one of them.

Then you take into account that our 2nd round pick (Ben Tate) didn't perform as well as the bum New England picked up off the street (Lagarrett Blount) regardless of the reason.....

Matt Schaub & our secondary, if they'd have played up to their contracts, 2013 would have played out a lot differently. That doesn't sound like mismanaging the salary cap... not the way you're saying. I can understand people who say we spent to much on Schaub or that we shouldn't have extended him & had a replacement in place since 2010. But what you're saying doesn't make sense.
 
Big Lou said:
Man I must have made that up. I could have sworn I read where teams could only carry over a certain amount of cap money left over. After searching I see teams that have carried like 24 million over. I'm suprised no one has tanked like 3-4 years in a row just to bank a lot of cash and make a big run.

I wonder if you have carry over you have to spend that the following season or you lose it.
Click to expand...

Folks are missing a big piece of the equation and you have hit on it. Starting last year, but determined on a four year span rather than annually, teams must spend 89% of the salary cap IN CASH not cap hit. So if the caps for 2013-16 are $120, $125, $130 and $135 (total $510 mil) then the teams must spend $453.9 mil in cash over that time period.
 
Texian said:
Something I have been saying since 2010. Many and most accuse me of being a Debbie Downer, making wild predictions, a hater and host of other derogatory terms. I say it's not wild predictions, alternative histories or anything else, I am simply doing the math.
Click to expand...

Only because somehow this salary cap thing found a way to bite us in the middle of December 2011.
 
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Image of the same chart the OP posted
 
steelbtexan said:
Having that kinda cap space and having Luck is going to make the Colts SB contenders for yrs to come.

The reason the Texans are in the cap shape they are in is because Rick misread how much the cap would be going up and wrongly thought Schaub was the man to lead the Texans to a SB. Along with not realizing that that Gary had run Foster into the ground. (He should have realized this. Plenty of people on this MB predicted the fall of Foster.)

Thanks Rick
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The fall of Foster, before this season he was one of the most productive backs in the NFL. I dont call one down season because of a season ending injury the fall of foster.

He will be back next season and be just as productive as he was !
 
EllisUnit said:
The fall of Foster, before this season he was one of the most productive backs in the NFL. I dont call one down season because of a season ending injury the fall of foster.

He will be back next season and be just as productive as he was !
Click to expand...


HE may be back, but will his BACK be back. This is a very bad problem for any player, but much worse for a running back. I warned about this with Cody right after he experienced his initial similar back problem in preseason.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
HE may be back, but will his BACK be back. This is a very bad problem for any player, but much worse for a running back. I warned about this with Cody right after he experienced his initial similar back problem in preseason.
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Cloak why you always got to come in with all your college education knowledge and **** on my parade ;) haha

Cant i have my cake and eat it too ?

No man i know he might never be the same, but Foster is a damn good RB, what the 4th fastest to make it to 5,000 yards ? All i'm saying is that i wouldnt count Foster out just yet. And people act like he just started sucking which isnt the case.
 
thunderkyss said:
So how's that different than the Patriots? Like I said, we've got twice as many players with a $6M+ cap number than they do & they've only got $5M more than we've got. If Talib was signed for another year, they would be in the same boat.


I do not agree with this. Back loaded contracts, to me, is like money in that bank. The mistake, I think, is letting these guys play out those portions of their contracts. Mario for instance, the Texans should have known (& probably did) what they valued Mario at before the 2011 season, he never should have been allowed to play for $18M, that money should have been converted to a bonus & Mario extended for at least 4 years.

I like Mario, but there's no way he was worth an $18M salary or cap hit. If we couldn't reach a deal, I would have tried to trade him. No other team would have wanted to pay the $18M, but they could have worked out a new contract, just like we did with Schaub. He could have been a Patriot, for a lot less than $96M.

You say you like back loaded contracts but then you say Mario's back loaded contract was a mistake, can't have it both ways, back loaded contracts are detrimental to your salary cap as you explained with all the negative reasons on Mario's contract.

I'm still not seeing it. I can see how you've allowed several facts to add up to a particular result.... but that deterioration has more to do (in my mind) with Schaub second guessing himself, Foster's back issues, & Cushing's knee than it does with an inability to sign quality free agents or replace starters. Kj, Manning, Swearinger, & Jjo were a big part of our problem in 2013 & we paid a pretty penny for each one of them.

Then you take into account that our 2nd round pick (Ben Tate) didn't perform as well as the bum New England picked up off the street (Lagarrett Blount) regardless of the reason.....

Matt Schaub & our secondary, if they'd have played up to their contracts, 2013 would have played out a lot differently. That doesn't sound like mismanaging the salary cap... not the way you're saying. I can understand people who say we spent to much on Schaub or that we shouldn't have extended him & had a replacement in place since 2010. But what you're saying doesn't make sense.
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You are using a lot of If's , And's, But's and excuses along with a whole lot of supposition, wishing and hoping to say in your perfect world the Texans would've been 12-4, Division Champs and going to the Super Bowl. When the reality is the Texans would be closer to 8-8 NOT 12-4. The Dallas Cowboys are a team that has a very similar roster and similar salary cap math problems for the last 3 years. For the last 3 years the Cowboys have been 8-8. 8-8 is a whole lot closer to the reality of the situation than the fantasy world you've created through your numerous excuses, if's, and's or but's. Many of your excuses, if's And's or but's are part of the realities of NFL. The one area in Texans favor is the AFC South has been the weak sister of the NFL the last few years. Not any more.
 
Texian said:
You say you like back loaded contracts but then you say Mario's back loaded contract was a mistake, can't have it both ways, back loaded contracts are detrimental to your salary cap as you explained with all the negative reasons on Mario's contract.
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I said it is a mistake to let the players play out those contracts. You cut him, or extend him. You do not pay him $18M to play one year then let him walk without an offer the next.

Texian said:
You are using a lot of If's , And's, But's and excuses along with a whole lot of supposition, wishing and hoping to say in your perfect world the Texans would've been 12-4, Division Champs and going to the Super Bowl.
Click to expand...

Aren't you doing the same thing, except where I'm saying players should play up to their contracts, you're saying our GM should manage the cap better. However, you say Rick & Chris Olsen are doing it wrong, but they're doing it the same way they do it in New England. Like I said, we've got 8 players making $6M or more, they've got 4 & there's only $5M difference in our cap situation. & if Hernandez wasn't in jail, they'd be even worse.



Texian said:
When the reality is the Texans would be closer to 8-8 NOT 12-4. The Dallas Cowboys are a team that has a very similar roster and similar salary cap math problems for the last 3 years. For the last 3 years the Cowboys have been 8-8. 8-8 is a whole lot closer to the reality of the situation than the fantasy world you've created through your numerous excuses, if's, and's or but's. Many of your excuses, if's And's or but's are part of the realities of NFL. The one area in Texans favor is the AFC South has been the weak sister of the NFL the last few years. Not any more.
Click to expand...



Would the salary cap have been a problem if Matt Schaub didn't set the consecutive pick 6 record? Or if Arian & Cushing were to play 16 games? Or if our high dollar (FA & draft) secondary didn't avg a big PI every game?
 
thunderkyss said:
Would the salary cap have been a problem if Matt Schaub didn't set the consecutive pick 6 record? Or if Arian & Cushing were to play 16 games? Or if our high dollar (FA & draft) secondary didn't avg a big PI every game?
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3 sentences, 3 if's. With enough ifs ands and buts you can make it out to be anything you want.
 
infantrycak said:
Folks are missing a big piece of the equation and you have hit on it. Starting last year, but determined on a four year span rather than annually, teams must spend 89% of the salary cap IN CASH not cap hit. So if the caps for 2013-16 are $120, $125, $130 and $135 (total $510 mil) then the teams must spend $453.9 mil in cash over that time period.
Click to expand...

The whole cap versus cash thing does make this whole equation a little more difficult to wrap your arms around.
 
Texian said:
3 sentences, 3 if's. With enough ifs ands and buts you can make it out to be anything you want.
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Those three ifs point to the real problem which is not signing players to multi-year deals, or renegotiating contracts.
 
thunderkyss said:
Those three ifs point to the real problem which is not signing players to multi-year deals, or renegotiating contracts.
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Those 3 ifs along with all the other ands and buts, plus all the excuses, keeps HOPE ALIVE, so you have that going for you.
 
Texian said:
Those 3 ifs along with all the other ands and buts, plus all the excuses, keeps HOPE ALIVE, so you have that going for you.
Click to expand...

Ifs play a big role in everything

such as IF you didnt write this i wouldnt respond
IF you hadnt woke up this morning you wouldnt of written this
IF the internet had never been invented this thread wouldnt exist
IF your mother hadnt met your father you wouldnt be born
IF our fore fathers had lost at lexington this would still be Britian

Yeah i think IFs are relevant !
 
EllisUnit said:
Ifs play a big role in everything

such as IF you didnt write this i wouldnt respond
IF you hadnt woke up this morning you wouldnt of written this
IF the internet had never been invented this thread wouldnt exist
IF your mother hadnt met your father you wouldnt be born
IF our fore fathers had lost at lexington this would still be Britian

Yeah i think IFs are relevant !
Click to expand...

You may think it relevant, however, absolutely none of what you said is based in reality. It all in fact, did happen! Therefore you're dealing with more pretend, fantasy and make believe. Which by the way reflects the general thinking of quite a few Texans fans.
 
I had no problem giving Cushing and foster and even Matt the contracts at That time. The texans had to lock those guys up. They(at the time important pieces of he franchise) ESP with Watt's contract looming and it is going to be a BIG on.
 
Texian said:
You may think it relevant, however, absolutely none of what you said is based in reality. It all in fact, did happen! Therefore you're dealing with more pretend, fantasy and make believe. Which by the way reflects the general thinking of quite a few Texans fans.
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NO you can use if in the context of IF it did happen or IF it did not happen and most generally before something happens it was an "IF" at one time. No fantasy because no matter which way the IF goes it has an affect on the other.

Its funny cause people are so narrow minded, you do know everything that happens, thats gonna happen, has been created or will be created starts with an IF. What if we do this or what if we do that, they choose one of those IFs..... do they not ?

No wonder hollywood has to remake old movies. All modern day thinking outside the box is gone for most.

Good luck !
 
Wolf said:
I had no problem giving Cushing and foster and even Matt the contracts at That time. The texans had to lock those guys up. They(at the time important pieces of he franchise) ESP with Watt's contract looming and it is going to be a BIG on.
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Agreed.

Andre Johnson $15.6M
Matt Schaub $14.5M
Johnathan Joseph $11M
Arian Foster $8.5M
Duane Brown $8.5M
Chris Myers $7M
Owen Daniels $6M
Danieal Manning $6M

Next year replace Manning with Cushing.
Chris Myers, Owen Daniels, & Johnathan Joseph comes off that list in 2015.

On one hand you've got a cadre accusing McNair of being cheap. On the other we've got a zealot saying we've spent too much.
 
Now..... in his/her defense. & I've been waiting for him/her to say it, but it's like (s)he doesn't understand his/her own argument.... we're screwed with Andre. I mentioned earlier, we shouldn't ever pay anyone an $18M salary, or suffer an $18M cap number for any one player.

Well, we should never have a WR with a $14M cap number either. Andre Johnson took a paycut last season to make cap space for Brian Cushing. We can't alter his contract again until next season.... we have no choice but to cut him (+$3.6M) or suffer a $15.6M cap number. $16M for 2015 & $14.6M in 2016.

The last two seasons, he's proven that he can still play, but... instead of asking him to take a pay cut, we should have "extended him" through 2018. Looks like he'll be a productive player at least through 2016..... but $16M??

Rick Smith & Chris Olsen need to find a way to extend him after the 2014 season through the 2019 season. Expect him to play through 2017, but minimize the cap hit in 2018.


But Andre is the only case. Mario was allowed to play out his contract without extending him indefinitely, So was Antonio. We can cut OD & Manning today & our cap would be better off. We can cut Matt Schaub today & we'd be better off.

We can cut Jjo & our cap would be better off. However, he's only 29 years old & he's not terrible. He's not $11M good, or $12M (2015)....... 5 to 7 million dollars maybe.
 
thunderkyss said:
Now..... in his/her defense. & I've been waiting for him/her to say it, but it's like (s)he doesn't understand his/her own argument.... we're screwed with Andre. I mentioned earlier, we shouldn't ever pay anyone an $18M salary, or suffer an $18M cap number for any one player.

Well, we should never have a WR with a $14M cap number either. Andre Johnson took a paycut last season to make cap space for Brian Cushing. We can't alter his contract again until next season.... we have no choice but to cut him (+$3.6M) or suffer a $15.6M cap number. $16M for 2015 & $14.6M in 2016.

The last two seasons, he's proven that he can still play, but... instead of asking him to take a pay cut, we should have "extended him" through 2018. Looks like he'll be a productive player at least through 2016..... but $16M??

Rick Smith & Chris Olsen need to find a way to extend him after the 2014 season through the 2019 season. Expect him to play through 2017, but minimize the cap hit in 2018.


But Andre is the only case. Mario was allowed to play out his contract without extending him indefinitely, So was Antonio. We can cut OD & Manning today & our cap would be better off. We can cut Matt Schaub today & we'd be better off.

We can cut Jjo & our cap would be better off. However, he's only 29 years old & he's not terrible. He's not $11M good, or $12M (2015)....... 5 to 7 million dollars maybe.
Click to expand...

As much as i agree with you about AJs contract i say there is no way they cut him, he will be 33 this season, but his last 2 seasons have both been over 1400 yard seasons. But thats not even the reason i say we shouldnt cut him....

No matter how loyal or hometown boyish this may sound, you do not do that to a player that has given his all for this franchise, and who hung around tough when times were bad. AJ needs to retire a texans when he is damn well ready. IF the franchise does cut him (NO MATTER how much it may help the franchise) I for one will lose a lot of respect for Mcnair and company !

Just all IMHO of course
 
thunderkyss said:
Well, we should never have a WR with a $14M cap number either. Andre Johnson took a paycut last season to make cap space for Brian Cushing. We can't alter his contract again until next season.... we have no choice but to cut him (+$3.6M) or suffer a $15.6M cap number. $16M for 2015 & $14.6M in 2016.
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Where do you come up with this stuff? Andre did NOT take a pay cut. He restructured. What that means is they took $4 million of salary and converted it to a bonus. That means that Andre received that $4 million up front in cash, just like a bonus. IE: there was no cut. That allowed the Texans the ability to reduce their salary cap by $4 million in 2013 and spread that $4 million bonus over the remaining FUTURE years of Andres contract. That is just one of the reasons that add up to why the Texans have salary cap problems again in 2014. FYI as long as Andre is NOT in the last year of his contract he can restructure his contract. Do you just make this stuff up as you go along?
 
thunderkyss said:
Now..... in his/her defense. & I've been waiting for him/her to say it, but it's like (s)he doesn't understand his/her own argument.... we're screwed with Andre. I mentioned earlier, we shouldn't ever pay anyone an $18M salary, or suffer an $18M cap number for any one player.

Well, we should never have a WR with a $14M cap number either. Andre Johnson took a paycut last season to make cap space for Brian Cushing. We can't alter his contract again until next season.... we have no choice but to cut him (+$3.6M) or suffer a $15.6M cap number. $16M for 2015 & $14.6M in 2016.

The last two seasons, he's proven that he can still play, but... instead of asking him to take a pay cut, we should have "extended him" through 2018. Looks like he'll be a productive player at least through 2016..... but $16M??

Rick Smith & Chris Olsen need to find a way to extend him after the 2014 season through the 2019 season. Expect him to play through 2017, but minimize the cap hit in 2018.


But Andre is the only case. Mario was allowed to play out his contract without extending him indefinitely, So was Antonio. We can cut OD & Manning today & our cap would be better off. We can cut Matt Schaub today & we'd be better off.

We can cut Jjo & our cap would be better off. However, he's only 29 years old & he's not terrible. He's not $11M good, or $12M (2015)....... 5 to 7 million dollars maybe.
Click to expand...

Maybe McNair does talk AJ into restructuring once again, and puts him in the front office to replace Smith. :doot:
 
Texian said:
Where do you come up with this stuff? Andre did NOT take a pay cut. He restructured. What that means is they took $4 million of salary and converted it to a bonus. That means that Andre received that $4 million up front in cash, just like a bonus. IE: there was no cut. That allowed the Texans the ability to reduce their salary cap by $4 million in 2013 and spread that $4 million bonus over the remaining FUTURE years of Andres contract. That is just one of the reasons that add up to why the Texans have salary cap problems again in 2014. FYI as long as Andre is NOT in the last year of his contract he can restructure his contract. Do you just make this stuff up as you go along?
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You're right, I mispoke. It was a renegotiation. It's also my understanding that they have to wait a full year before they can alter his contract again. According to SI.com, Andre's deal was done in September. That would be too late to help us get new players into camp.

It is totally possible that I don't understand the intricacies as well as I should.

& though I agree with you that AJ's contract is symptomatic of the problem you believe runs rampant at Reliant, while you think the problem is they reallocated some of Andre's salary into future years, I believe they didn't reallocate enough & didn't push it out far enough.
 
thunderkyss said:
It's also my understanding that they have to wait a full year before they can alter his contract again. According to SI.com, Andre's deal was done in September. That would be too late to help us get new players into camp.
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You are correct on the full year requirement.
 
thunderkyss said:
You're right, I mispoke. It was a renegotiation. It's also my understanding that they have to wait a full year before they can alter his contract again. According to SI.com, Andre's deal was done in September. That would be too late to help us get new players into camp.

It is totally possible that I don't understand the intricacies as well as I should.

& though I agree with you that AJ's contract is symptomatic of the problem you believe runs rampant at Reliant, while you think the problem is they reallocated some of Andre's salary into future years, I believe they didn't reallocate enough & didn't push it out far enough.
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AJ restructured $5.5 mil over 4 years. Only 4 years because AJ is signed thru 2016. Max number of years bonus can be extended is 5 years but there must be 5 years remaining on the contract.

You admittedly say you don't understand the salary cap rules and procedures and yet you think it's a good idea to restructure more dollars for longer periods?

Somehow I get the idea and think you have maxed out all your credit cards, over the limit and you think that is a good idea. fiscal responsibility vs frivolous spending. The Texans have borrowed over $20 million from AJ's salary alone and somehow I think that you think this is a good idea.

Do you really think a team with $2 million in salary cap space can be competitive with teams that have $30-$50 million in salary cap space. 2 years in a row? 3 in a row?
 
Texian said:
Somehow I get the idea and think you have maxed out all your credit cards, over the limit and you think that is a good idea. fiscal responsibility vs frivolous spending. The Texans have borrowed over $20 million from AJ's salary alone and somehow I think that you think this is a good idea.
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Are you saying it's not?

Texian said:
Do you really think a team with $2 million in salary cap space can be competitive with teams that have $30-$50 million in salary cap space. 2 years in a row? 3 in a row?
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& the Bills & the Browns should rule the NFL.


The Patriots only have $5M more than we do. They'll carry $8M of dead money in 2014, we'll only carry $3M.

The 9ers, $1M difference between them & us. $1.9M of dead money.

The Seahawks have $4M less than we do.
 
I don't understand any of the cap stuff. Not sure anyone really does and I'm pretty sure that no one outside the nfl really does. Or that anyone outside nfl and Texans front office know the Texans cap situation. But I sure do get a laugh watching ya'll go back and forth.
 
JB said:
I don't understand any of the cap stuff. Not sure anyone really does and I'm pretty sure that no one outside the nfl really does. Or that anyone outside nfl and Texans front office know the Texans cap situation. But I sure do get a laugh watching ya'll go back and forth.
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Speak for yourself. It's all in the CBA. Read it. Then you will know it and understand it. I have, several times.

https://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/2011CBA.pdf
 
thunderkyss said:
You're right, I mispoke. It was a renegotiation. It's also my understanding that they have to wait a full year before they can alter his contract again. According to SI.com, Andre's deal was done in September. That would be too late to help us get new players into camp.
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1. Andre's restructure was Sep 3.
2. It wasn't to get people into camp,
3. This is the 3rd straight year Andre has restructured.
4. $5 million of the 2014 salary cap is a result AJ's multiple restructuring and other bonuses.
5. AJ restructured last year to accommodate Cushing new contract and the increase to the 53 man roster.
6. AJ can restructure for a 4th straight year after Sep 3 but still prior to the start of the new league year.

Beginning of the new year (March) only the Top 51 contracts count against the salary cap. Usually about 5PM the day before the new season starts (usually Wedneday following Labor Day) the salary cap roster is expanded to include the final 53 man roster that must be salary cap compliant.
 
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