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Old 03-10-2014   #221
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

I've had time to really digest this stuff. If I read right,the texans have 8.3m of cap space for their top 51 players which isn't bad. I've also been trying to se where they can create space. 1st off, I'm not cutting a guy on a rookie deal before the draft. Any money gained from those moves are small by nfl standards. So now that brings me to some of the obvious candidates and their importance to the team and nfl.

Schaub,the lightning rod. As I posted many times, I never thought he was as good as the stats. I think kubiak manipulated him system wise,but I'm not made at schaub. I do think he's solid and can help teams including the texans. I still think the texans should draft Bridgewater at 1,but I think schaub could still be a starter on this team. If they cut schaub,they will gain about $4m short term. With the qb market and the dearth of solid qbs, I think they can get schaubs number to 7m per yr with incentives. That would give the texans 7m of room and if he plays well, his contract is tradeable like alex smith and carson palmer next yr.

JJo. Frankly, it cost too much to cut him. I'm not sure they can restructure him,but they need to get his cap # down to about 5m. I do think JJo and even Kareem will fare better with rac than they did with wade. RAC plays a lot of cover 3,cover 4 as oppsed to man. RAC also likes to invert the cb and safeties,so the cb have to be good tacklers.

Manning, see Joseph.

OD. This is the guy I keep axing. His price vs the cap and his production is why I keep doing it. He's solid,but they have solid and younger guys at that spot. Not to mention, they would have any dead money if they axe him. He's likeable and somewhat productive,but for 6m,not so much.
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Old 03-10-2014   #222
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
I've had time to really digest this stuff. If I read right,the texans have 8.3m of cap space for their top 51 players which isn't bad. I've also been trying to se where they can create space. 1st off, I'm not cutting a guy on a rookie deal before the draft. Any money gained from those moves are small by nfl standards. So now that brings me to some of the obvious candidates and their importance to the team and nfl.

Schaub,the lightning rod. As I posted many times, I never thought he was as good as the stats. I think kubiak manipulated him system wise,but I'm not made at schaub. I do think he's solid and can help teams including the texans. I still think the texans should draft Bridgewater at 1,but I think schaub could still be a starter on this team. If they cut schaub,they will gain about $4m short term. With the qb market and the dearth of solid qbs, I think they can get schaubs number to 7m per yr with incentives. That would give the texans 7m of room and if he plays well, his contract is tradeable like alex smith and carson palmer next yr.

JJo. Frankly, it cost too much to cut him. I'm not sure they can restructure him,but they need to get his cap # down to about 5m. I do think JJo and even Kareem will fare better with rac than they did with wade. RAC plays a lot of cover 3,cover 4 as oppsed to man. RAC also likes to invert the cb and safeties,so the cb have to be good tacklers.

Manning, see Joseph.

OD. This is the guy I keep axing. His price vs the cap and his production is why I keep doing it. He's solid,but they have solid and younger guys at that spot. Not to mention, they would have any dead money if they axe him. He's likeable and somewhat productive,but for 6m,not so much.
I think your $7m number on Schaub is off a little. If you got his salary down to $7 million that would save $3 million since his base salary is $10 million this year. But I like your thinking and I agree. A reduction in base salary would be optimal and best for both sides as opposed to release.
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Old 03-10-2014   #223
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Good discussion TroyChapman.....
Yep.

Another point I would like to bring up that contributed to our salary cap number, namely the low amount of carryover from 2013 (and 2012). The Texans have experienced a ton of injuries. Don't forget that every time we had to place someone on IR, they had to pay another player to fill the 53 man roster. And if that player came off the PS, that was additional dead money. I know these replacement players were minimum salaries but after 7-8 players it does eat away at the cap. Next think you know all those extra players ate up a couple million in the cap leaving little to rollover to 2014.
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Old 03-10-2014   #224
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

im not a fan of cutting manning i think he adds to much veteran leadership and quality in our secondary, however there are a number of decent to good safeties in FA so we might be able to get someone of equal quality for less
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Old 03-11-2014   #225
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How do we look now after these 2 cuts


Your man... Pots and pans
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Old 03-11-2014   #226
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Originally Posted by PHILLYTEXANFAN View Post
How do we look now after these 2 cuts


Your man... Pots and pans
http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans

Cutting Owen, we should be +$6.2M

McCain should be +$850K
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Old 03-11-2014   #227
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans

Cutting Owen, we should be +$6.2M

McCain should be +$800K
~$13.77m in space by my numbers.

$4.5m for OD, $850K for McCain
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Old 03-11-2014   #228
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans

Cutting Owen, we should be +$6.2M

McCain should be +$850K
Owen creates a net of $4.5M in new cap space.
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Old 03-11-2014   #229
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
And you keep leaving out of your Colts worship that they are going to spend a bunch of money staying even with last year on players like Vonte Davis, Donald Brown, Adam Vinatieri, Mike McGlynn, Samson Satele, Aubrayo Franklin, Pat Angerer, and Antoine Bethea. Those guys are STARTERS.

In contrast, 3 of the 4 starter FAs the Texans have are actually very conveniently on expiring contracts as they were probably gone for upgrading anyway - Wade Smith, Earl Mitchell and Joe Mays.
It's perfectly understandable why kool aid drinkers would think that the discussion of the Colts $46 million salary cap as Colts Worship. The non drinkers see it as a dose of reality without a bunch of excuses.

The point that kool aid drinkers don't seem to grasp is the Colts do have more than enough money to re-sign all their players or replace them with free agents if they so choose and the Texans DO NOT.

Kool aid drinkers are also under the illusion that even though the Texans don't have the money to re-sign any of their FA players the Texans will somehow, someway be able to upgrade all the positions lost to free agency with better talent even though all they can afford is vet minimum or a little more.

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
You would think you would try to find a primary example that bore some semblance to truth. Past three offseasons include signings of:

JJo
Manning
Ed Reed (yeah it sucked but that's irrelevant to your point)
Lechler
Derrick Ward
Mays - 154% of vet min.
Leinart
Vickers

That's on top of new contracts for key players in a tighter than normal time period.
"For the last 3 years the Texans have NOT had enough salary cap space to sign any notable Free agents except vet minimums."

To start, the Texans did not have enough salary cap space to sign Joseph and Manning at the beginning of the 2011 season. This was only made possible AFTER the Texans restructured the contracts of Andre Johnson, DeMeco Ryans and Antonio Smith to become compliant with the salary cap at the beginning of the season. In fact these players could not practice and did sit out a morning practice until their restructured contracts were completed.

Joe Mays did sign for the vet minimum salary of $715K. In addition he received bonuses of $360K, that equated to 50% + of his salary.

The other names you have listed don't really fit what most people would consider "Notable Free Agents". These names are more fitting of lunch pail type players with salaries much closer to vet minimums than what most folks would consider NOTABLE FREE AGENTS or a player who would command a salary of $4 million per year.

Sadly, the Texans have had to restructure contracts the last 3 years to accommodate many of these lunch pail players. The fact remains, the Texans in the last 3 years have NOT had salary cap space available to begin the league year to sign any "notable free agents".
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Old 03-11-2014   #230
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

Updated: March 22, 2012, 8:45 PM ET
Quote:
FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady restructured the remaining three years of his contract, helping the team create $7.2 million in salary cap space this year, a source confirmed.

As part of the restructure, Brady had his 2012 base salary reduced from $5.75 million to $950,000. The team then took the remaining $4.8 million, combined it with a $6 million roster bonus due to him, and gave him a $10.8 million signing bonus.

Brady doesn't have his salary reduced, he just receives the money in a different form.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft, speaking at a community event on Thursday at Gillette Stadium, calling the restructuring a "win-win all-around" for Brady and the team.

"I think we're blessed to have the number one quarterback in the NFL," Kraft said of Brady. "But let's also remember, that when he restructures his deal, he's getting a big bundle of cash up-front. But it is helping us create cap room."
If the Patriots do the same thing, it can't be bad for business. This is business as usual. We had seven pro bowlers on offense, all of them at least on their second contract.

We had 2 pro bowlers on defense, both big money FAs (Antonio & Jjo). We also had Three former 1st round picks... you have to pay those guys, no way around it.

You either have players.... or you have cap room. We thought we were Super Bowl contenders when the season started. The Colts didn't.

Before 2012, the New England Patriots was the model team Texian said we should pattern ourselves after, the Economics major, Bill Belichick. Now.... it's the Colts.
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Old 03-11-2014   #231
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
It's perfectly understandable why kool aid drinkers would think that the discussion of the Colts $46 million salary cap as Colts Worship. The non drinkers see it as a dose of reality without a bunch of excuses.

The point that kool aid drinkers don't seem to grasp is the Colts do have more than enough money to re-sign all their players or replace them with free agents if they so choose and the Texans DO NOT.

Kool aid drinkers are also under the allusion that even though the Texans don't have the money to re-sign any of their FA players the Texans will somehow, someway be able to upgrade all the positions lost to free agency with better talent even though all they can afford is vet minimum or a little more.



"For the last 3 years the Texans have NOT had enough salary cap space to sign any notable Free agents except vet minimums."

To start, the Texans did not have enough salary cap space to sign Joseph and Manning at the beginning of the 2011 season. This was only made possible AFTER the Texans restructured the contracts of Andre Johnson, DeMeco Ryans and Antonio Smith to become compliant with the salary cap at the beginning of the season. In fact these players could not practice and did sit out a morning practice until their restructured contracts were completed.

Joe Mays did sign for the vet minimum salary of $715K. In addition he received bonuses of $360K, that equated to 50% + of his salary.

The other names you have listed don't really fit what most people would consider "Notable Free Agents". These names are more fitting of lunch pail type players with salaries much closer to vet minimums than what most folks would consider NOTABLE FREE AGENTS or a player who would command a salary of $4 million per year.

Sadly, the Texans have had to restructure contracts the last 3 years to accommodate many of these lunch pail players. The fact remains, the Texans in the last 3 years have NOT had salary cap space available to begin the league year to sign any "notable free agents".
The truly sad thing is you have some knowledge and even a point but you constantly obscure them in exaggerated illusions and then when called upon it resort to meaningless diversion ad nauseum.
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Old 03-11-2014   #232
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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The truly sad thing is you have some knowledge and even a point but you constantly obscure them in exaggerated illusions and then when called upon it resort to meaningless diversion ad nauseum.
Another typical, I Know You're but What am I, response. Not surprised, it was expected.
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Old 03-11-2014   #233
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Updated: March 22, 2012, 8:45 PM ET
If the Patriots do the same thing, it can't be bad for business. This is business as usual. We had seven pro bowlers on offense, all of them at least on their second contract.

We had 2 pro bowlers on defense, both big money FAs (Antonio & Jjo). We also had Three former 1st round picks... you have to pay those guys, no way around it.

You either have players.... or you have cap room. We thought we were Super Bowl contenders when the season started. The Colts didn't.

Before 2012, the New England Patriots was the model team Texian said we should pattern ourselves after, the Economics major, Bill Belichick. Now.... it's the Colts.
Not saying this is the wrong way to go.

But many including myself predicted the Texans fall from grace last yr. Just not as bad a fall from grace that happened. SOS + injuries to high level players+bad drafting that lead to lack of depth =2-14. Really who expected Foster to stay healthy all yr? C-N-D told us what was going to happen to Schaub. Gary mishandled the OL injuries, Wade Smith/Newton were shells of themselves and Brown was rushed back from his turf toe injury. Compare that to how the Seahawks handled their OL injury problems and you will see why the Texans offense stunk last yr. Lack of depth/bad drafting was the main cause.

To be a champion you have to follow a champions model. Hopefully BOB has learned this with the Pats.
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Old 03-11-2014   #234
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Not saying this is the wrong way to go.

But many including myself predicted the Texans fall from grace last yr. Just not as bad a fall from grace that happened. SOS + injuries to high level players+bad drafting that lead to lack of depth =2-14. Really who expected Foster to stay healthy all yr? C-N-D told us what was going to happen to Schaub. Gary mishandled the OL injuries, Wade Smith/Newton were shells of themselves and Brown was rushed back from his turf toe injury. Compare that to how the Seahawks handled their OL injury problems and you will see why the Texans offense stunk last yr. Lack of depth/bad drafting was the main cause.

To be a champion you have to follow a champions model. Hopefully BOB has learned this with the Pats.
I've got no problem with anyone who says we had a bunch of bad contracts because we gave the wrong people a lot of money & should have known better.

That's a good argument with mountains of data to back it up.

But to say we've got a bunch of bad contracts because they're back-loaded, when that's standard operating practice for the NFL.

To say we should be like Baltimore with Ozzie Newsome, until they have to dump half their team months after winning the Super Bowl for salary cap issues.

Switch to the Patriots with the economics major Bill Belichick, until he has to restructure the deal he just gave his franchise QB, lose Wes Wellker, & pays a thug millions of dollars before watching him swept away in handcuffs.

Then switch to the Colts who have $80M in cap space two seasons after dumping Harrison, Manning, Freeney, Saturday, Clark, Wayne... then he cites Gosder Cherilus's contract as a model for future NFL contracts when it's the exact same kind of contract he says gets us in trouble.

That's an argument I can't follow & you know me... I can come up with some doozies.
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Old 03-11-2014   #235
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

So, after today's cuts we will have about $17.5M in cap space, assuming we cut Schaub before June 1st. If we don't cut him at all we have about $13.9M in space. Is that correct?
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Old 03-11-2014   #236
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Texans are $13.752 million under the cap
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Old 03-11-2014   #237
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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So, after today's cuts we will have about $17.5M in cap space, assuming we cut Schaub before June 1st. If we don't cut him at all we have about $13.9M in space. Is that correct?
Cutting Schaub, even before June 1st, would add $4.6M

$22.1M
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Old 03-11-2014   #238
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Cutting Schaub, even before June 1st, would add $4.6M

$22.1M
You seem to use a different number each time. A non June 1st cut or a trade adds $3.625 to the available 2014 cap space.
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Old 03-11-2014   #239
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Default Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
You seem to use a different number each time. A non June 1st cut or a trade adds $3.625 to the available 2014 cap space.
This is correct.

Unless the McCown visit goes well I see a base salary reduction coming for Schaub with him staying on the roster.
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Old 03-11-2014   #240
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I'm sick and tired of seeing Denver add to their talent base. They just added Aqib Talib, the best cover corner in the game and are supposedly at the top of the list for DeMarcus Ware.

I want the Texans to do whatever they have to get out of this cap situation where they are completely hamstrung. It just builds in excuses for Rick Smith's continual failures. Denver is paying for Peyton Manning, Wes Welker, Von Miller, and a bunch of other stars and they are ADDING talent. We can't get a competent RT to man the position.
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